Are these terrible things said about Ron Paul true?

I like the guy a lot, but i didn't know these things about him, I'm hoping they are untrue or taken wildly out of context, can anyone enlighten me?

Link to what I'm asking about

I'll leave it to other posters to attempt to explain why all of Paul's social positions are positives.

I don't think they are, and that's one of the reasons I can't support the guy.

Love his economic policy, love his foreign policy.

He completely loses me on his social positions.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Theres more than a whole lot to take in on that link, but after reading a good amount of it, what i have to say is this; I swear that they make this s@%t so complex, and the verbal subjectivity of the words is vague to say the least. It would be a MAJOR effort of research on anyones part to actually go through all of the afformentioned bills and compare the two schools of political thought in retrospect to the argument being made. It's just a whole clusterf@#k of red tape.

As well i feel i must add that reguardless of the validity of the claims against ron paul in this article, the whole thing just sort of makes me question him a whole lot more.

anyways good post. i think people should be reading this so we can get a better idea of weather or not this has any truth to it. Star and flag.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


LOL. I took a quick stroll of the website and that whole website is obviously anti-republican of course those things are being taken way out of context. Personally, I know many African Americans who support Ron Paul. Number 1 on that list has to do with race. Usually racial stuff hits hard and would used against him. Seeing that it hasn't had any effect at all can pretty much answer your question. In my opinion, America needs a chance. Obama said yes we can but we haven't. Ron Paul is straight to the point, has a ton of experience in politics, he's a doctor, and he was in the U.S. Air Force (has the most donations from our Army when you compare to all other candidates combined including Obama). So, RP 2012. If he doesn't win I am moving out of the U.S. because things will be a lot worse and I don't feel like living in a FEMA camp.

That seems to be some over the top ideas. Guns, well he has my vote on that one, but to repeal guns laws around schools, sounds a little funny to me.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


1. The government has no right to tell a business owner that they cannot disallow any person (regardless of their reasoning) from doing business with them. The acts that were mentioned were all beyond the government's constitutional powers to enact, and that is why Dr. Paul is against them.

2. I don't agree with the belief that Ron Paul has that life occurs from the moment of conception but totally agree with him that late term abortions are unacceptable. Much of his stance on abortion issues comes from the fact that he delivered many babies and saw atrocities committed in the name of abortion.

3. Everything in those bills mentioned do NOTHING to protect the working class, and many times disrupt the ability of companies to compete with over-seas outsourced workers. Repealing them would increase the ability for Americans to get employment.

4. While Ron Paul may have been very Republican in many of his votes regarding taxes, all of this is immaterial as one of his main goals is to trash the IRS all together.

5. I love the environment, so does Ron Paul. This doesn't mean that we can't accept that as long as we are dependent on fossil fuels, it is much better to be dependent on LOCALLY mined fossil fuels than those obtained from other nations, especially when there aren't ANY regulations on how those other nation's corporations are to go about mining in an environmentally conscientious way, which in turn leads to far more destruction of the environment.

6. This is the United States that we live in, not the United Nations, not the New World Order. Our constitution is the supreme law of the land, not U.N. law! What kind of Commie bastard would think that not giving up our national sovereignty is a bad thing?

7. Yep, he has personal beliefs that don't agree with mine, and so do most of his constituency... He is a Representative. It's his job to vote according to how the people that voted him into office would vote. Things like this aren't enough of a con to outweigh the pros that we reap from having him in office.

8. Ron Paul supports the Constitution, as he took an oath to do. This is obviously a very biased super-left-wing comment, as the constitution is very clear on this matter. Anyone in office who tries to hinder the second amendment is a traitor to their oath of office.

9. The Department of Education is responsible for the sad state of affairs in our educational system. It needs to be completely done away with. Nuff Said.

10. While I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that Paul supports Intelligent Design being taught in schools, who gives a damn since the Department of Education wouldn't exist any more if he had his way, so the point would be moot as parents could choose whether or not to put their children in schools that teach or don't teach the theory.
As far as religion goes, have you ever seen a president who didn't profess to believe in religious crap just to get a vote? At least Ron Paul seems truly sincere in his beliefs, and has stated time and time again that government and religion have no place within each other. The last statement is the most sensationalist out of all of them.

Talk about twisting of the facts and the fact is Paul is a Constitutionalist that is a hard concept for some people to grasp.

Better living through Government legislation has fixed anything hasn't stopped anything but created a myriad of other problems.

That is a common smear tactic from the Left only they can make up such ridiculous talking points.

Meh

The most important thing to remember when looking over Ron Paul's voting record is this.

If there is anything unconstitutional in the Bill, Ron Paul is going to vote against it. Period

For example,
Any law that infringes upon the 2nd Amendment is unconstitutional. Or any other Amendment for that matter. So Ron Paul would be in favor or repealing any of those laws.

It is pretty straightforward.
I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to that policy.

I have no idea what he hoped to accomplish by going Rep.... but I don't think it's working out too well for him. They're minimizing his footprint in the campaign every chance they get. And that little (R) means he has no chance at my vote.

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
I like the guy a lot, but i didn't know these things about him, I'm hoping they are untrue or taken wildly out of context, can anyone enlighten me?

Link to what I'm asking about

Could you be more specific?

How can you support a guy when you don't know the consequence of his philosophy?

Did you just get caught up in the hype?

I think the reply to the OP question is quite simple. IF these things had real basis in fact, you would never be here asking if they were true at this late date. They would have been plastered across headlines during Dr. Paul's last Presidential attempt, his various campaigns to Congress or well before now in THIS campaign.

When the above is taken into consideration, the point by point refuting of 'facts' is irrelevant. Does anyone honestly believe the Democrats OR Republicans for that matter, would give him a 'pass' on these issues to be nice or something?

Naww... We'd all have heard most of the things in the OP link well before now and ad naseum, I'm thinking.

reply to post by satron


no its just when new information is brought to light i reexamine my views. I personally think a lot of this is horrible'd skewed and completely out of context, however that doesn't mean i can't research it to see if there are kernels of truth in whats being said.

Originally posted by watchitburn
It is pretty straightforward.
I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to that policy.

Changing a constitution is required to keep society in order!

When a constitution is drafted it is called a draft for a reason!

because it is an ever changing document!

constitutionally our own moral constitution is different than 200years ago!

do you still fight the british?
No!

then why moan about removing guns from people,

this is the right thing to do!

guns are bad news along with all other weapons,

so why are you arguing so much over your death toy's.

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
reply to post by satron

 

no

No what?

its just when new information is brought to light i reexamine my views.

What exactly was new to you? Just pick one example.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Well lets see..

1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status,

One of the reasons I like him..

2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade.

One of the reasons I like him.. And actually the article is a little wrong, Ron Paul is against abortion, but only in Texas, he has said he would not support a Federal Law.

3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security

One of the reasons I like him.. He is a Libertarian .. wtf does the Federal Government have anything to do with Minimum wages and OHSA regulations? And screw entitlement programs!

4. Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens.

One of the reasons I like him.. Estate and Gift taxes only hurt the Middle / Upper Middle Class. Those rich enough (ie top 15%) can easily hide wealth transfers through offshore banks, estates and trusts. Middle class cannot because most of the wealth is tied in equity.

5. Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries.

One of the reasons I like him.. !%!% GOVERNMENT!

6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization.

One of the reasons I like him.. !%!% THE UN!!

7. Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens.

I don't really care!

8. Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns.

WTF does that even mean? Oh, that's right, that the writer of this article is a mentally challenged Liberal. Got it.

9. Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system.

One of the reasons I like him.. Our education system is a joke, only made funnier by the pathetic attempts at National Standardization.

10. Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state.

I like how he didn't really have any source for that one!

Let me put it to you frankly: Ron Paul is a Libertarian. He's a Socially Conservative Libertarian. If you are a Liberal, a Progressive, a Socialist, a Communist, or any other left leaning ideology .. saying you support Ron Paul is akin to swearing the sky is Purple. It's simply not. And if any of these stances surprise you in any way, you likely had no effing idea what you were talking about in regards to Ron Paul to begin with. And the writer of the article is a douche bag. Just throwing that out there. What a waste of characters.. he could have written: Ron Paul is not a Liberal so we shouldn't like him! .. morons.

PS .. remove that Ron Paul icon from your signature, you've clearly proven yourself incapable of political thought since this all comes as a surprise to you. Obviously you jumped on a bandwagon without knowing what the Wagon was.

I'll take a crack at the first three, since I am time strapped.

1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens. Here are links to these bills: H.R.3863, H.R.5909, H.J.RES.46, and H.J.RES.42.

Ron Paul believes that if the constitution were followed it guarantees the right to be treated fairly. Federal legislation only further classifies people into groups deserving of extra protections. Paul believes it is the right of every person if treated unfairly to bring a lawsuit to protect their interests for disparaging treatment and should not take a federal department which has done little to stop these abuses.

2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links: H.R.2597 and H.R.392

This one is simple. The constitution guarantees life. Because Dr. Paul is a doctor he recognizes life is conceived at the point of conception. Ron Paul would protect life on the federal level as defined by doctors and allow states to make exceptions to the general rule given extreme circumstances such as rape.

3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.” Here are the related legislative links: H.R.2030, H.R.4604, H.R.736, and H.R.2720

Again Ron Paul believes that if the constitution were actually followed, these administrative departments would be unnecessary. Anyone harmed as the result of another negligence could be sued by the individual, with the individual claiming harm done to them as the result of anothers negligence. The current structure of things only allows a harmed individual to seek redress through administrative agencies. If the government backed off this not only would taxes decrease, but states could fund their own versions of OSHA if they felt the courts could not handle this.

reply to post by jayo121


Obviously you don't like guns... I don't mind that at all. There's no need for you to own one.

There's also no need to try and impose your views on others.

Our right to bear arms is more than some excuse to play with "death toys".

Personal protection is one reason.

The most important though is to put a check against our own government if they go all tyrannical on us, or any foreign invader that might show up on our shores.

So yeah we'll be keeping our death toys.. thx.

Spin it any way you want to but I still support Ron Paul and doing away with all your "Federal freedoms" and transferring the decision making back to the people in the states. Hey, New York wants to pass a gun bill banning "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" and you want to own one or a hundred, move to a state that allows them or get active in New York and start a petition to nullify the bill.

The whole concept of Ron Paul is simple once you get past the paranoia of doing away with the Federal Department of Education, for example, and instituting the will of the people of the state.

Bottom line is that Ron Paul wants to transfer the power to make laws and govern back to the states rather than have the Federal Government (elected crooked politicians) decide what they think is best for the common good of the nation .

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Personally I am wondering your motives for posting this? What are yiur true motives for posting this rubbish?
Is your motive for posting this to divert attention from the totally illegal and imoral behaviour of the other candidates? You say you like Ron Paul, but if you truely did you would never post something with this title.

Ron paul has been accused of loads of stuff he has never done and posting this yoi are obviouspy adding to those flames, i think you will find that ATSers are too smart to fall for your rubbish

Ron paul is a decent guy and that obviously frightens TPTB, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting this title. You have to ask yourself this simple question, do you want your children and your families children to live in a free world or do you want them to be microchipped and disposed of when they are of no use. Because this is what you are supporting with this title.

Why is no one calling Ron Pauls cuts "Austerity measures". Because from what I can see and I may be off mark here. But Ron Paul is calling for the same measures the IMF is calling for in Europe. Cutting public service jobs and tending out all public services to the private sector. Cutting welfare,pensions and public health care.

In Greece and Italy the bankers have installed themselves as the new leaders to carry out these tough measures.