Those that are against abortion

reply to post by ElectricUniverse





No terminating after a rape will not make the rape go away, but is it necessary for the

woman to have to suffer 'double jeopardy' by being forced to carry the result of the rape

for a further nine months and give birth? And what about when that resultant child is adult

and interested in finding out about their parentage?

Originally posted by torqpoc

Originally posted by korathin
All forms of abortion that rely on killing the fetus in the womb should be regarded as murder with both the pregnant woman and the doctor thrown in jail over it.

Thankfully, this will never happen in the UK.

You know what these forums have taught me? Religion is still, sadly, alive and strong and America is almost as screwed up as Muslim countries when it comes to the ingrained religious fervor y'all have. I'll actually go further and outright state I think the US is one of the most backward countries on the planet socially.

Good luck to you is all I can say.

edit on 11-11-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

What is so wrong with forcing early delivery? Why must the fetus be killed in the womb when it may or may not be able to survive on it's own? And If it can survive on it's own, then it is indeed murder. If the fetus doesn't survive, well then it is just natural selection.

I've always wanted to ask this of pro-lifers. If abortion was deemed illegal for the reasons stated..."it is a life", "it is wrong to take a life for any reason"...etc.

Then, if a woman took drugs and the fetus died...is it manslaughter? Can we carry insurance on the fetus? In short...if the fetus is a "human life", shouldn't it receive all the benefits of that...and the responsibility. And now (for me) the big one. If a fetus is a life from conception, shouldn't the conception date replace the birth date? Thus making (for the most part), all of us 9 months older?

I'm not trying to be an ass...I'm just curious if the details of the argument are real, and should be applied everywhere...or if they are just convenient arguments.

reply to post by heineken


Its a kangaroo not a human. Not an apples to apples comparison and totally wrong comparrison

IMHO the choice is that of the woman. I am against abortion as a form of birth control however there are times when it can ne justifiied. The OP mentions cases of rape. Yes in these cases abortion ithe case for abortion is a strong one. The pregnancy is the result of a none conscented act therefore the woman must have a way of taking control of her life. To all the pro life people on here consider this. Your daughter or wife is the victim of rape and becomes pregnant be honest with yourself what would you do or advise and dont delude yourself be truthfull. I know what I would do and am comfortable in my answer which is a termination

Lets face it when it comes to sex the catholic chirch has got it pretty screwed up. The only reason priests are not allowed to marry is because thr catholic church didnt want to loose wealth to priests and their family members. This is not a religious reason purely the acts of various popes over the years who lets face it were not exactly doing it for he greater glory of god

By the way I am a catholic but i do have some major isssues with the catholic church as an organisation not a religion. Dont even get me started on Paedophile priest cover ups, turning a blind eye to the nazis and the continued violation of speaking out against contraception amd the use of condoms to prevent HIV transmition

Look forwards to your replies

reply to post by muse7


Don’t use the 1% of 1% as your argument it shows your lack of intelligent.
The same morons that say it’s only a fetus… are the same morons that run around screaming for joy at the prospect of finding a germ or spec of a water crystal on Mars and declare “We found life!” Idiots. People bitch about fat people clogging up the medical system costing us money and say nothing of the millions of abortions that cost us when all these people have to do is keep their pants on. The government trys to control what we eat, think, buy... Can't smoke, eat fast food, have candy bars in vending machines...why not control this part of a body. The biggest problem is the idiots breed faster than smart people.
Fat people still need to eat, but you don’t have to hook up every chance you get and expect to kill a child because of your foolish , inconsiderate, irresponsible act. KEEP YOUR PANTS ON!

reply to post by korathin


Then the obvious solution is to give man a right to opt out of child support if he does not want the child (and abortion limit has not yet passed), NOT to ban abortion.

reply to post by Viking9019



You make some good points there. But i refer to your eqrlier post of abortion being ok in mixed race cases What if people of different races love each other and are attracted to each other as in your scenario

Your statement about mixed race abortion is wrong on so many levels. Racial intollerence like yours sickens me. No doubt you are white as am I but when i read that kind of BS it makes me wish i wasnt some days.

Crawl back under your supremecist rock

reply to post by D1Useek


Here's the problem. Just because you think people should keep their pants on, doesn't mean they are going to. In a perfect world, no teenager would have sex until they are out of school, have a good job, and are able to support a baby. WE DON'T LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD. Do you know what would happen if every teenager that got pregnant was forced to have the baby? I'm sure you are intelligent enough to realize that many would grow up in poverty. Many wouldn't be cared for properly. Many would suffer, because let's face it, most teens are not ready or prepared, or financially stable enough to care for a baby. So should they have sex? NO. Are they gonna stop just because you want them to? NO.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by BlackStar99

 

How can it be considered a life when it's dependent on the mother for everything? It cannot exist independent of the mother, and everything depends on her health. It's a fetus.

If we use this logic I suppose its ok to kill your children until their about 8-10 year and can defend for themselves. I guess its ok than to kill elderly that are not able to defend for themselves due to age and live with a caretaker or a family member who watches them. There are plenty of people today in their teens and over 18 that are legally adults but still cant live independently of their mother or family to support them. Your logic in this reasoning is wrong. After 28 days the human embryo has a beating heart.

Additionally, abortion is not always attached to religious philosophy. Some people believe that if a heart is beating than something is alive. Its also a responsibility issue, dont be having sex if your not prepared for the consequences which are known, a child. Its not just cause the Hebrew Bible says "Do not murder", its because our society is rotting and fails to take responsibility for their actions. "Dont play with fire if your not ready prepared to be burnt is the old adage."

Also to the OP, if your so thrilled about European laws than damn well go there....

Maybe better parenting is needed for those teenagers. I'm 25, i had dates and what not during my high school years, and i remember my parents advice about sexuality and pregnancy. I had urges of course, but my fear of STD's and pregnancy was enough to keep me on track till i was more mature. My first experience is when i was 21, in college.

---------------------------------------------------

Nobody is forcing a women to bear a child, you had your say when u engaged in sexual activity. Main purpose of sex is to reproduce, pleasure is a bonus. Now we have people thinking sex is pleasure only and reproducing is something evil.

Religion and Abortions?.. why, others who arn't religious don't care about life?

reply to post by muse7


BOTTOM LINE is that nobody is going to convince a person to change how they feel about this topic. It is going to be page after page of pro-lifers vs. pro-choicers arguing back and forth about why they are the right ones. This topic is NEVER ENDING. But go ahead boys and girls...have at it.

reply to post by muse7


Yes, I am against abortion even if the pregnancy is the result of rape. Murder is murder, under any and all circumstances. To me abortion is no different than walking up to someone and shooting them in the head. Now I can only imagine how difficult it would be for a woman to know that her baby is the result of a rape, and also how difficult that would be for the child once he/she is old enough to understand how he/she was conceived. However, I think that the child would still be grateful for his/her life. Regardless of how difficult the situation would most assuredly be, murder is still murder. Killing innocent life is wrong no matter the circumstances.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by BlackStar99

 

but not you so keep out of it. its fine if you think its wrong but do just that, think it.

its none of your business what other people do.

I will now exercise my right to my freedoms to choose, speak and express.

It is not your business, either. It is not you, either. So keep out of it. It is fine if you think something, but do just that - think it.
It is none of your business what other people do.

Hey, guess what? It is not my business either. But guess what? I'm free to make it my business.

Ok so we have the

Absolute Anti Abortion - abortion against no matter what the outcome is

Semi- Anti Abortion - abortion against rape, incest, mutation.

Anti Abortion - abortion against convenience("oops didn't plan" or "oops forgot condom")

Abortion - for abortion the day after or within a week of conception

Semi Abortion - for abortion before 5 months~

Absolute Abortion - for abortion after 6+ months


Everyone has different levels of their sides. Don't make them all into either black or white.

reply to post by BlackStar99
Are you seriously suggesting that people outside the US are less "moral" because they accept that abortion is the choice of the mother and in some cases the only choice for her? Are we less law abiding in the UK because we choose not the verbally abuse women by telling them they will burn in hell when they are attending clinics to end an unwanted pregnancy ? I like the fact that I live in a Country where we CHOOSE not to shoot Doctors who carry out legal terminations or fire bomb clinics that offer family planning. The abortion rate would be cut dramatically if all men used condoms every time they have sex and did not leave contraception to women. If men are against abortion I suggest they only have sex when they want to procreate otherwise they run the risk of an unwanted pregnancy as no contraception is 100% effective.

I find it disturbing that so many people are concerned with life before birth but when the child is born they do nothing but complain about Mother's on welfare draining their tax dollars by having numerous children by different father's. Maybe we should get together and campaign for mandatory vasectomy for "deadbeat dads" (I think that is the correct term) who father lots of children and then fail to support them and sterilization for women who continue to produce children that they expect other people to support. I am sure once that happened the termination rate would drop rather dramatically !

Abortion is a tremendously personal issue and I believe that any decision should involve both parents but I also realise that this is not always possible or even practical, so in the end the decision lies with the women as it is her body, not mine and certainly not yours.

Heres a thought why dont we bring back free school milk and put contraceptives in it. Thay might address the problems of teenage pregnancy.

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by muse7
Are you also against the woman having an abortion if she gets raped by a family member/complete stranger?

It's still a life.

Yes.. It's still a life even though the OP stated valid reason that said baby could be despised because she relives that event every time she looks into the child's eyes (If you doubt that could happen then you are very sadly mistake because humans are not perfect), she knows how he/she was conceived, but its fine if her parents/partner disowns her and makes her fend for herself possibly pushing her into a downward suicidal spiral in a one bedroom apartment and barley managing to pay the rent because YOU don't think its right to get rid of that fetus

I saw a post the other day that was a doctor scaring a woman into keeping a baby because she had a child already and couldn't handle having another one, now you tell me when it was alright for them to be mentally, financially, and physically drained because SHE was FORCED to keep it due to someone scaring her and convincing her that killing the fetus was the same as killing the baby in her arms.

NO IT IS NOT THE SAME! ... One child is hard enough work, now think about it, if that child is still in her arms at this point, he will probably just be learning to walk and talk when the other child is born, she's not getting any breaks she's been forced to get straight back into the game of parenting, no down time for her because society doesn't think its acceptable. (I've heard a lot of woman say pregnancy is painful - uk.answers.yahoo.com... - Link, I know there is only a handful but you'll get the drift)

You don't have the right to say who can and can't do what, if people want to do it then they can. YOU maybe don't want to do it, if you get a girl knocked up fine, do it your way and don't have the abortion but if you aren't financially stable, to not only bring up one child, how are you going to fare with two children? It's going to be pretty dam hard.

You are a nobody until you are actually in the shoes of these people YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY WANT TO GET IT OR NOT, it's not just woman who get dragged down, it's the male counterparts as well, if you have a child do you know how much harder it is to actually further yourself in life just say for example you hooked up with a girl when you were 17 (Young and foolish) you don't use contraception and you get pregnant, you now have to pay CSA, money towards the child, spend time with the child and sometimes even the woman and male will come together even though they don't want to be together for the sake of the child... but its fine as long as the majority of society is happy and dictates what everyone else does.

I know, I may be flamed by your god lovers out there telling me that "God says that, god says that" .. Answer this question, If god already knows everything and he gave us the power of freewill, he knew everything that was going to happen, so he already knew that we'd slowly come away from worshiping him then why hasn't he show us to prove he is real? .. Because he is a made up character, you can't reach god on a plane, you can't reach god on a spaceship no, you reach god if you dedicate your life to him and die .. BULLSH*T!!!!

I think some people need to pull there head out of there ass and stop telling people how they should live their lives if they follow the holy book, the telly, messages writting in the sky from airplanes, you don't like other people coming into your life and just telling you what to do, so don't do it to others. We were given the power of free will and we will exercise our free will as much as we want and no one will stop any human being who does so.

Seriously, sometimes people just need to back off and focus on there own life rather than bombarding other peoples with theirs. I still feel sorry for the woman that the doctor scared because it was her choice and now she thinks that killing the fetus in her womb is the same as killing the baby who opens his/her eyes, looks around the world, can even make noises and smiles and laughs, a child is a blessing and it is your choice as the parental guardian of this child to decide whether YOU are up for the job and want to bring a baby into this world, no one else

Oh yeah.. I forgot to mention.. Abortions are legal

reply to post by muse7


I know after 10 pages of what must be generally unreasonable fighting (because that's what threads like this bring), this might seem a bit late, but at some point someone needs to take a stand.

So, a few points:

1) I personally believe that if we were to outlaw abortion it would have to be also for cases of rape.

2) I am an atheist, as are a number of other pro-lifers. Lumping us all into a religious category or saying that religious influences can not be housed in a brain that can also divine logical arguments is fallacious.

3) I am not so unreasonable to assume that abortion can be changed legislatively alone. A culture of change must occur to stop homosexual bigotry and to open the adoptions process to more people (including homosexual couples) to counterbalance the resulting changes.

4) Science and medicine seem to be moving in the pro-life direction considering the increased viability of children in the womb. This is a long discussion, but it's an important aspect.

5) While few people can agree when life begins, it seems reasonable to expect a nation based on liberty and ownership to err on the side of life (the basis upon which all ownership is grounded).

Can we not have a reasoned discussion, even if it's a topic that has been parsed and hacked to death by the parties of hate and discontent (on both sides)? I feel it's possible.

Peace
KJ

This is to muse who ever you are. Currently my wife is pregenant. It was a long and difficult process we went through, because we had a couple of miscarriages. I don't agree with abortion, but i do understand why people have them. It is because we as humans are very selfish to our own wants and desires. We want to go out, party with people we don't love, spread our legs, and get knocked up. Now let's take the easy way out. Sounds all the same ME ME ME. When I was in high school my high school girlfriend got pregnent. Thank god she did not have an abortion. We were not close nor did he know I was his father until he came to live with me at age seven. It infuriated my ex wife that a child that was not her's was coming to live with us. Needless to say she had to go. I chose a child that was mine, but did not know over my wife at that time. There I was a single father with a five year old boy and an eight year old boy. I stayed single for about five years and out of nowhere the lord blessed me with a gift. A new wife who also had a son. At that time I did not want another child, but my wife seven years younger wanted another very bad. I finally let my selfishness go and told her she could have our baby. We had our first ultrasound the first month and our little speck already had a heartbeat. Does that mean it was not alive. Now after the end of the third month there are arms, hands, fingers, and legs which were crossed. My wife hopes it was a little girl, just being modest. To muse I don't think this post is for you. This post is for that one person out there who is reading this right now thinking of aborting their baby. Please don't do it life is not easy. If my high school girl friend had aborted our son there woould be one less defensive back on the football team. One less honor roll student. If you still are not sure if abortion is murder go to youtube and watch the silent scream. I know I jumped all over the place and am sorry, but please think about what you are doing. Everyone of us will judged on what we do in this life. If it were true what muse said about gods laws being meaningless or outdated, then we could do whatever we wanted with no consiquences. Have you ever tried being bad, I mean down right wrong. Life has a way of paying you back. Make the right choice!

Originally posted by bodcausailor
This is to muse who ever you are. Currently my wife is pregenant. It was a long and difficult process we went through, because we had a couple of miscarriages. I don't agree with abortion, but i do understand why people have them. It is because we as humans are very selfish to our own wants and desires. We want to go out, party with people we don't love, spread our legs, and get knocked up. Now let's take the easy way out. Sounds all the same ME ME ME. When I was in high school my high school girlfriend got pregnent. Thank god she did not have an abortion. We were not close nor did he know I was his father until he came to live with me at age seven. It infuriated my ex wife that a child that was not her's was coming to live with us. Needless to say she had to go. I chose a child that was mine, but did not know over my wife at that time. There I was a single father with a five year old boy and an eight year old boy. I stayed single for about five years and out of nowhere the lord blessed me with a gift. A new wife who also had a son. At that time I did not want another child, but my wife seven years younger wanted another very bad. I finally let my selfishness go and told her she could have our baby. We had our first ultrasound the first month and our little speck already had a heartbeat. Does that mean it was not alive. Now after the end of the third month there are arms, hands, fingers, and legs which were crossed. My wife hopes it was a little girl, just being modest. To muse I don't think this post is for you. This post is for that one person out there who is reading this right now thinking of aborting their baby. Please don't do it life is not easy. If my high school girl friend had aborted our son there woould be one less defensive back on the football team. One less honor roll student. If you still are not sure if abortion is murder go to youtube and watch the silent scream. I know I jumped all over the place and am sorry, but please think about what you are doing. Everyone of us will judged on what we do in this life. If it were true what muse said about gods laws being meaningless or outdated, then we could do whatever we wanted with no consiquences. Have you ever tried being bad, I mean down right wrong. Life has a way of paying you back. Make the right choice!

So your basically forcing people to keep the baby because YOU don't see it as right, you manage to support your child and that is very well for you and your child who seems to be a role model to all but the fact is, not everyone's child will turn out the same as yours, not everyone will having a loving family like yours, not everyone will understand like you, sometimes its for the best.

People is bad every day and look at how they live, they have a nice set up in prison, a cot to sleep in, 3 meals a day and hey probably living a better life than some of the homeless out there but its fine, as long as they are off the streets and hard working citizens/vets are on the street, makes sense .... (Thats just the ones that get caught)