OP/ED: Toronto to Ban Pits... Could the ban be Spreading?!

hear it straight up from someone who lives in Toronto- ME!

I hope they ban these dogs, they are viscious animals and enough people have been attacked, something has to be done.

You want to talk about infringment on Torontoians rights, talk about the fact we can no longer cut a tree down on our property w/o having to go through red tape with the city.

For you people who THINK that Pits aren't dangerous then try this experiment...

Kick a Poodle....

Kick a Pit....

See which one does more damage to you. If you think a Poodle at this point is more dangerous then I feel for you because you are seriously diluded.

Of course don't really kick any dog. It would be wrong and foolish. The point is that a Pit can kill you where as it is extremely unlikely that a Poodle will. I'll take my chances against 2 or 3 Poodles any day.

You can dance around the issue all you want but the dangers associated with Pit Bulls has been proven beyond any doubt. They are in the minority but are #1 by a HUGE margin when it comes to fatalities.

Any normal unchained dog that comes into my yard will be chased off. Any unchained Pit that comes into my yard will not live to see the next day. My neighbors dog right now is living on borrowed time.

What is wrong with you people??? The one's here saying they are dangerous have OBVIOUSLY never owned one. I also did not see any that were attacked by one (unless I just did not see it physically because I'm PISSED at the remarks of Pits).

Remarks such as "Kick a Poodle.... Kick a Pit...." that was about ridiculous. Do the same thing with a Collie, yer gonna get bit.

Remarks such as "genetically aggresive" - get a grip man !!!'
The OWNER MAKES THE PIT/ROT/DOBY AGGRESSIVE.
These dogs are TRAINED to be what they are!!

My Pit, when outside, if a person walks by she will take stance just as ANY DOG WOULD!!! - BUT, when a person walks by with a kid - she lays down!! Ya, that's REAL aggresive ain't it !!

A Pit is as dangerous as its owner - period.

Someone tries to take my Pit, or impose a muzzle on it - they have to get past a Biker who IS AGGRESIVE to do it !!

Misfit

Dodge it all you want... the fatal and serious bite stats speak for themselves. So would you try and pass off to me that gators aren't dangerous? What makes a gator dangerous? Size. Teeth. Strength. If a gator were 3 lbs who would really care? Its the same reason a Pit is dangerous. Size, strength and its bite. Not to mention their history (very clearly documented) of unpredictability. Like I mentioned in a previous post. The police won't use them as police dogs for that very reason.

A Pit comparable to a Gator.
Why don't we just go all the way:
Pit comparable to a Grizzly.

Deny Ignorance.

I'm out of here.

Misfit

Ignorance is when you look at the stats and the stats are so lopsided in favor of showing the Pit as a dangerous animal but you refuse to accept hard evidence.

And tell me. Why would a grizzley be dangerous? What key feature makes them dangerous? Their ability to inflict harm makes their dangerous. Hey if you leave a grizzley alone they are a perfectly harmless animal. You have done nothing so far to make your case. I'm waiting for the hard evidence that shows me beyond any doubt that the Pit is a warm and gentle creature.

Chris... look at Sigfreid & Roy. They raised their animals to be gentle creatures. Yet one still attacked. You take any animal and give it teeth, size and strength and you have something dangerous.

Oh and let me guess. Its a myth that Pits bite and don't release.

You're trying to compare a dog to wild animals?

A gator or bear are just that: they are not domesticated. There is always a chance of being mauled by them.

It is a physical impossiblity for a Pit, or any other breed to lock it's jaws. If you find one that can, please let a vet know, so your name can go down in history as the person who discovered a genetic mutation of a breed of dog.

There is no gene that makes any breed aggressive towards humans. If so, show me the proof.


The anti-Pit people cannot proove any of these facts. They are based on crap, and only crap.

Everytime a person is bit by a dog they "think" is a pit, the news goes wild. The dog could have been a boxer, American Bulldog, American Stafforshire, Bull Terrier, or a mixed breed.

Once again, prove the point that 'Pits" have a) locking jaws, b) have a genetic flaw that makes them human aggressive, and c) attack more people a year than any other dog( Pits only, not some other breed, mistaken as a Pit).


boo-ya.

Originally posted by nathraq


Once again, prove the point that 'Pits" have a) locking jaws, b) have a genetic flaw that makes them human aggressive, and c)


boo-ya.

Responsible Pit owner here....it can not be proven because they can not lock their jaws...it's a myth. I so get tired of the rhetoric coming from people who have never owned a Pit and who know nothing about them other than what they are told and/or read....which is never the whole truth...they want to spout off without truly knowing what their talking about....and this is one of the reasons there is the problem we have. Low life scum that take these dogs, abuse them and train them for fighting are the ones that should be punished. These loyal, intelligent animals are horribly abused by backyard Pit breeders, gangsters idiots, and dog fighters....punish the deed, not the breed! Some people are ridiculous....if you make the Pit extinct, then these low life's will just use another breed....then what? Wipe it out too, then another, and another? Use your brain here....

EDIT: I'll direct you to what I said before....we can just ban everything...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11/1/2004 by LadyV]

I use to think people were crazy when they said pits go nuts for no reason. until last week when the guys 120 pound pit just snapped and attacked a little boy. You can read the whole artical in the chicago tribune

It was a pit bull mix. Dogs just don't snap and attack people for no reason, unless the dog has a genetic problem (inbred).

Once again, I ask: out of the 60,000+ Pit Bulls in Chicago, why is the number of attacks so low?

You know why? Because it is b.s.. Breed specific laws are totally abhorrent. And the people wgo support them are equally so.

Originally posted by Indy
For you people who THINK that Pits aren't dangerous then try this experiment...

Kick a Poodle....

Kick a Pit....

hokaye did it...or sort of.
Let's see...this is flawed by ONE thing. The breed of Pit bulls was designed to fight OTHER animals WITH their handelers IN the ring. They actually are quicker to respond to what's human and what's another dog. I've litterally picked up my pit when it was IN a fight with another dog ( a sum total of 6 times in 2 years), while the dog does nothing to me, just keeps growling and snarling at the other dog...and I calmly walk down the road until the owner of the dog's owner came and had to forcibly drag it away, as it would not respond....and I'd put my dog back down as soon as they had their dog under control, and have an obedient dog. This is a 55-65 lb pit against a lab, a dalmation, and an English Bulldog on diffrent occasions. I'm a girl, and I'm sorry, if the dog wanted out of my arms THAT bad, she would have gotten out of them.
PIT BULLS HAVE A HIGH THRESHOLD FOR PAIN. They can still reason (in a canine manner) in cases where other dogs would be curled up in a ball or chewing you a new oriface. when I was young and stupid, (being about 12, and the pit only a year old and in early training)...I DID kick my pit in the ribs, when she refused to get out my way, ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS. The dog would just wag her tail and grin at me. She didnt feel a thing.
While trying to stop one of our pits from chasing down a rabit (pits HAVE to be trained to deal with other pets), my dad hauled off and punched the dog in she skull (they DO have thick sculls) because, for once, the dog was not listening. My dad was big ole football player with a neck bigger around than his head, and all that happened was my dad got a sore hand, the dog cocked his head sideways, for a split second, then chased down the rabit and ate it.

I have kicked other dogs, when I was younger, and guess what? They were the only ones to EVER snap at me, NEVER THE PIT.

Take it form someone whose done it, not from someone who worries about the plausable damage, lol...

Really guys lets think about these statistics of attacks people are so readily to site. What minority commits the most crimes even more then the white majority? I believe it is still the black minority that is committing the majority of crime in the nation. This is not a dig against the black minority by any means just simple facts. Now on the logic used on this board we should eliminate the black race. It must be the person and not the environment! There is no way that because of the fact the most of the black minority that attributes to these stats lives in low income housing and under the poverty line. These things do not matter because it is instead the genetic attributes that make a person. Really who is with me let�s ban all blacks!!!

Boy does that sound ridiculous but is the same debate not being made for pits. I raised my pit in an apartment complex. I lived on the first floor had a sliding glass door to the outside and she never once used a leash. This was during college so she saw more people in her 4 years at school then she will probably see in the rest of her life (a lot of parties). The simple fact is she never attacked anyone and never even showed the inclination. I did however raise her as a baby and when I got her it was 11 at night and me and my roommates went out in the slums to some ladies trailer and paid 40 bucks for her. We looked at both her mom and her dad mean as heck dogs in the looks at least. She was the size of about two of my fists when we first got her and would sleep on my chest every night.

She is grown now and is back at home as I am out of college however her personality has not changed much. She will attack you when you walk in the door and by attack I mean jump all over you and lick you. Always liked that so never trained her not to, she also will bring you a present (anything she can find a letter, bottle, sock, towel, etc...). She still does not use a leash and has no problems with it. She is however very defensive of me and my family. There was an instance in which a gentleman was trying to sell something to my mom who had just walked out with the dog Jordan is her name by the way, but the guy is a passenger in a van and jumps out while it is still moving and runs up to my mom. Now she said the dog was in full defense mode and one word by my mom would have resulted in the man getting his face ripped off. Really though is something like this all that bad. Is this not what we would want all dogs to do?

I do have a confession since she (Jordan) was a baby she has never had many encounters with kids I think she only ever met two kids her whole time at college. The thing is she will growl at my little cousin when ever she comes over. I can only figure that it is the she is scared of the kid, think lots of energy running around and a high voice. Scares me so I am not surprised it scares the dog. The more I hear the growl the more I think it is a leave me alone type of thing. I would like to condition her to like kids however I lock her up whenever there is a kid coming over. The funny thing is that she has never gone after a kid walking around the cull de sac (spelling) I live in. This is the main reason I think she growls more out of her fear then any attack.

The other thing I wanted to address real quick was the pits that attack erratically that never showed any signs of anger. How long was it that the owner that never witnessed an attack owned the dog. See pits have an amazing memory and if someone that got attacked exhibited signs similar to an abusive owner then it would make sense. See unless you raise the dog from birth you never know what type of violence might have happened to the dog and we all now the early childhood is the most influential time for a dog. Well I have droned long enough and actually am getting licked and whined at so I will take Jordan out. If this was not the case I might have more to say, however I am sure someone will post something that will continue to fuel my fire.

@ jlc163

If I may so inquire:

Questioin: When out and about with your dog, is it leashed?

Now a comment: Kicking and punching a dog - I'm going to be quite brash on this one - that is NO way to treat ANY animal. Would YOU like to be kicked and punched? Does not matter if it is a Pit that is sturdy, you are ABUSING an animal !!!

Kicking / punching / god only knows what else --- what the hell is wrong with you?

Maybe someone should abuse you. Kicks / punches and all.

FYI - I have a Pit. She is an excellant animal. She was taught her commands with respect, love, and rewards, NOT with abuse.

Misfit

jlc163 you certainly do not come off as an animal lover and if someone kicked me I'd knock the crap out of them....if you got bit it's your won fault You do not kick animals...WTH are you kicking an animal for...what's wrong with you!? Animals try to please us, they depend onus...take your aggression out on something else! You do not punch, kick or hurt innocence...children and animals...should not be abused....perhaps you need counseling.

nathraqIt was a pit bull mix. Dogs just don't snap and attack people for no reason, unless the dog has a genetic problem (inbred).

Exactly! You have lazy low life's that want to make money off an animal...so they breed...they don't bother with any genetic testing...they don't care about whether they have medical problems...they just want a buck made off of an animal...lazy! I see it every day of my life at work. Back yard breeders...but then people can't figure out why Cockers are known for having such bad ears problem and snippy....Shepherds have hip and skin problems....it goes on and on...Laws need to be passed that the only people allowed to breed would be registered breeders that have taken proper courses....then we wouldn't have the inbreeding problems we have. The general public is not informed enough because they don't want to be...I get people that won't alter their pets because "it's got papes" SO WHAT! I can register and bag of dog food with the names and money, having papers does not mean a quality dog..I have customers that have papers on "Miniature" Pomeranians, Miniature Shih Tzus, Miniature Chihuahua...there are no such breeds...I had a woman the other day that paid $400 and drove through 2 states to get a "Yorkie Poo" from a "breeder" never did she do any research, nothing...people are just plain stupid when it come to animals! Pit are what YOU make of them....I have never had an incident with one of my Pits...they are/have been loved, socialized and properly cared for! Everyone that has ever been around any Pit I have ever had....is always just amazed that they are sweet and loving....this IS the Pit...when owned by a respectable pet owner!


[edit on 11/2/2004 by LadyV]

I totally concur, ladyV.

Not one 'pit' basher has come forward yet to answer why, with tens of thousands of pit-bulls in just Chicago alone, aren't there many more attacks and fatalities?

Under their reasoning and hype, every man-eating pit bull out there would readily attack and gnaw to death the children that they live with. Those vicious blood-thirsty Pits!(sarcasm). I wouldn't own a pit, if I thought them to be dangerous. I have a baby at home. Do you think I would put his life in jeopardy? The worst thing out pit does is lick him till he cries.

Me too...I raised 3 children with Pits..not one problem...I am raising a grandchild now with a Pit...not one problem...it all comes down to responsible ownership!

Original Post Updated.

The ban is spreading

Update:

My 'vicious' pitbull just had his 1 year birthday!!

Our 1 1/2 year old and him can now share their toys, as they are rolling around on the floor together, trying to tug on each others ears!

Once again, the stereotype of a man-eating pitbull has been disproven.

peace

I love animals, yet I can see the logic behind the current craze to ban Pitts.

All one has to do is watch the Animal Planet, Miami Dade county has them outlawed and anyone found with them is fined stiff and given a chance to move them out of the county. If the dog is found off leash with no tags or ID they are put down no ifs ands about it.

I tend to think that this is a cultural thing, since some tend to have them simply because the are considered good fighting dogs. They bring a heftly price from what I have seen on Animal planet. One man was found with 4 in his yard and asked if he wanted to keep them or pay the fine. He paid the fine and stated in the open he would pay the fine with the profits he made off the dog sales. Now keep in mind Miami Dade gets 2 grand for each dog, that should give you an idea what one might go for.


Now we all know we cannot ban people so that only leaves the pits. Trust me this is getting to be a very big issue and not just in Toronto, Detroit and Dade it is going on all over the US for the very same reasons.

I agree it is a culture.

With the exception of many of the posters here it seems that if you arn't successful and can't display it in the usual manner, (nice car, house, posessions etc), and want respect without having to earn it, you can always buy a dog.

Dogs give instant respect and status. You can drive an old pickup with gun racks and rust, but if you have your vicious dog on a rope in the back, then you can feel proud. It gives you the self esteem that lasts longer than a bud, and is flashier than a tatoo.

On the other hand a small dog, and a handbag, is a good status symbol if you are gay as well.... maybe a small vicious dog is a symbol that you are a gay in need of respect?