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OP/ED: Toronto to Ban Pits... Could the ban be Spreading?!

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posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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The Ontario government is considering a province-wide ban on pit bull dogs, which are nothing less than four-legged "dangerous weapons". So many families are going to loose their friends, pets, and companions. They should not be allowed to do this. They need to stop the ones who attack, not the ones who are warm friendly pets.
 


UPDATE: Canada Post has refused to deliver mail to one Ottawa neighbourhood until they get rid of their pit-bull. Looks to me like it's moving... (Link when I can find one...)

UPDATE: "Pit bulls - banned," Attorney General Michael Bryant said today as he announced that legislation would be introduced within a month, the first such provincial law in Canada.

If passed, the proposed legislation would allow current owners of the fierce, squat, muscular dogs to keep their pets, but they will face "severe restrictions." "They will be muzzled, they must be leashed and they must be neutered or spayed," Bryant said.

In addition to the ban, the proposed law would double fines to $10,000 and allow jail sentences of up to six months for irresponsible owners of any breed of dog that is dangerous and bites, attacks or poses a threat to public safety.

Related News Links:
www.t hestar.com

"If we are banning or otherwise restricting other dangerous weapons, why would we not include these animals as well and that's ... something that we are looking at," Bryant told the Star yesterday. "Some animals amount to nothing less than dangerous weapons."

SOME is the key word there. But no, they are not talking about banning SOME of the pit-bulls, they are talking about ALL of them.

In Toronto on the weekend that left a 25-year-old man with extensive leg, back and arm injuries. Witnesses said if police had not fired up to 16 shots into the two dogs, the animals would likely have killed the man.

THAT pit-bull needs to be banned, not the one living on the house nextdoor who loves babies, plays with the family cat and is an excellent pet.

How can they do this? How can they take away our pets, just because a vew of the are angry.

Its alot like saying one African-American commits a B&E, we need to run away from the rest of them, or put half of America behind bars.

Pit bulls are not a specific breed, but include Staffordshire terriers and American pit bull terriers. Some have been bred to become ultra-aggressive.

There is that word again SOME. SOME need to be removed not ALL.

So far, Saskatchewan is the only province to pass dangerous-dog legislation with penalties that include fines of up to $10,000 or six months in jail or both.

We need to make it a priority like drunk driving is. Owners must be held accountable. It is unfair to target a specific breed. The owners are to blame if their dog attacks someone, and they should be criminally prosecuted. Owners will be more cautious when they are faced with paying a $5,000 fine to the victim.

The question is whether or not pit bulls are inherently untrainable and uncontrollable by human beings.

Please leave me with your thoughts.

Related News Links:
www.thestar.com

[edit on 8-31-2004 by Valhall]

[edit on 1-9-2004 by John bull 1]

[edit on 23-10-2004 by MacKiller]

[edit on 23-11-2004 by MacKiller]




posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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thats retarded and against rights of torontoians. its not the animal its the owner that doesnt properly train them. and the people that use them as a weapon



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by phantompatriot
thats retarded and against rights of torontoians. its not the animal its the owner that doesnt properly train them. and the people that use them as a weapon


That's exactly the problem, the mindset of the person that wants a pitbull in the first place. I've only come across 1 decent pitbull, it was trained to be a family dog, it was a good one but the average pitbull owner doesn't just want a family dog, they also want an attack dog.IMO.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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That's exactly the problem, the mindset of the person that wants a pitbull in the first place.

I beg you parden!? I just posted this on another thread


I thought this was a "Deny Ignorance" site.....I work with animals every day....I have several pits a week come in, they are never my problem dogs..I own two of them. It is the owners NOT the dogs....in almost every case of any pit bull problem, you will find underneath an uninformed, irresponsible owner! You may never hear the whole story, as it will be buried on the back pages of the news paper..."if" it even makes it to the paper! The attack that resulted in the banning of this wonderful breed in Cincinnati, was the attack and death of a child (. It was reported that a family dog had killed the child. The father of this child should of been arrested and put in jail in my opinion! The idiot of a human, wanted to breed his pit female (I abhor idiot back yard breeder scum that only want to make money off breeding an animal, if you breed properly you don't make money) this father, bought a pit off the street for $50 (no genetic testing of the animal to be sure no negative traits were being passed on, knew nothing about the animal)...and put it in the back yard to breed with his female leaving his child with them out in the yard when they started mating, the child thought the dog was hurting his dog and started hitting the male and the male attacked him...ANY dog would do this during mating.....there is always some stupid human error behind these attacks, and I will do some digging into this one also. I have owned and rescued many, many pits in my life as I have worked closely with the pit bull rescue. They are loving dogs that become ruined by idiot double digit morons! Yes, I am passionate about this, Pits, Schnauzers and German Shepherds are my breeds! FOr the record. I have many animals in my home, including a 51/5 foot iguana, 4 ferrets, cats, two smaller dogs, spiders, degue, rats, fish, birds and geckos...my pit do not bother any of them!

There are tons of good people on the net trying to dispell the pit bull myth and make people realize it is the owners, not the breed......Remeber that ANY dog can be made vicious when abused the way pits are trained for fighting..I hope every sub-human that fights a dog for sport or money get his, it take a low, sick, piece of scum to do this, part of the problem is that the poor pit is the current popular "gangsta" and ghetto dog
Please read and learn......deny ignorance

www.forpitssake.org...

www.pitbullsontheweb.com...

www.badrap.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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I have never met a nice Pitt (EDIT: Scratch that I met 1 nice pitt and she was a sweetheart, but so were the owners as well), allthough I do admit they aren't predisposed to violent behavior its the owners who are the Violent ones. I say instead of banning them, they ought to set up some registry system allthough it should't just target Pitts. Chows can be dangerous as well as Dalmations, both of these dogs are historically bad tempered. Japenese Akidas can be visous dogs too.



[edit on 31-8-2004 by sardion2000]



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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I visit Toronto quite regularly, and now that I think about it, I've never once seen a Pit-Bull there. Ever. That is the strangest thing.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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The problem is partially due to the dogs and mostly due to the owners. These dogs can be extremely dangerous, often at the most unexpected times, and despite growing up in the best environment possible, like your friend's dog deciding that your girlfriend's face needs teethmarks - out of the blue and seemingly at random.

If you keep a pitbull as a residential pet and never experience a single accident, understand that you are a very lucky person.

These dogs were bred to be weapons and only in the last few decades have people decided that they make cute pets. The idea that they are perfectly safe and its only the owners that can make them bite or strike at random is a myth.

Why people think that a dog breed that has been bred through centuries to do one thing - fight - is going to be Lassie simply because the new owners wish it to is beyond me, but probably stems from the stupid common belief that a dog's behavior is entirely dependent on its nurture, not its nature. Instead of scaring the crap out of people with wild exclamations about how the dogs are not trustworthy or enacting legislature, the government has to educate people that certain dogs are essentially genetically designed to fight, patrol estates, etc., and that certain types of dogs carry far more risk than others.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:55 PM
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Hmm......... A dog doesn't kill people, people kill people!



Seriously though, we had this debate in Europe in the early nineties after a series of dog mutilations. I think Germany banned some types of dogs (they had the most vicious attacks) but I think they were just highly regulated elsewhere. I might be wrong. I do think it's about the owners, I owned a Staffordshire bull terrier cross a couple of years ago and he was the friendliest type of dog you could get, but many people do deliberately breed these dogs for violence, particularly those that are sure they're going to receive it.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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The problem is that people aren't responsible enough. So, assuming the role the government has been granted by the people, it takes rights away from them to protect them.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by BangorangRufio
I visit Toronto quite regularly, and now that I think about it, I've never once seen a Pit-Bull there. Ever. That is the strangest thing.


Go to the lakeshore(east end warehouse district)...or blake....or regent park....or scarborough...lots of places where they are abundant. Usually 2-3 per street gang.....EDIT: BTW Banning them will not stop the Gangs from getting them, it will just make the puppy black market for whatever breed is banned that much more lucrative.

[edit on 31-8-2004 by sardion2000]



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV

I beg you parden!? I just posted this on another thread


Yes, I read it and if every owner was like you I wouldn't have a problem with the breed, as I didn't with the one I meantioned above. This is not the case.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:00 PM
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sardion2000 A sane voice! Thank you. Ya know, when I was growing up it was the German Shepherds every one feared. My legal father raise and trained the m for the army, he worked MP canine unit in the Army in Germany...we always had shepherd as I was growing and I remember all the sill bruhaha back then too.....Many Pit people are trying to get laws placed. perhaps a certain age to won a pit, be responsible and no "back yard breeding" ALL back yard breeding need to be eliminated anyway....it's terrible to try and die out a breed because of a$$ hole scum! It's very upsetting, For the record also, my grandchildren play with my pits and they sleep together. My kids grew up with pits also.....so much misinformation about these wonderful dogs!



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by ktprktpr
The problem is that people aren't responsible enough. So, assuming the role the government has been granted by the people, it takes rights away from them to protect them.


So, they ban the Pit, so the low lifes start using Dobbies, so they ban them, then they start using Rotts, so they ban them, then they start using the akita, so they ban them............and so on and so on and so on...


LL1

posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by phantompatriot
thats retarded and against rights of torontoians. its not the animal its the owner that doesnt properly train them. and the people that use them as a weapon


It's not the animal, it's the owners!

www.akc.org...

Boston just passed law also on pits, they must be muzzled.

www.cityofboston.gov...


[edit on 31-8-2004 by LL1]



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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I think all local authorities should license dogs by weight and breed.In addition, roaming fines should be levied according to weight and breed.This way, people will think twice before buying a pit bull or rottweiler and dog pounds will generate enough revenues to be self sustaining.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
So, they ban the Pit, so the low lifes start using Dobbies, so they ban them, then they start using Rotts, so they ban them, then they start using the akita, so they ban them............and so on and so on and so on...


OK, would you be in favor of charging the owners of these errant dogs with the same regard as those that commit gun crimes? Both can be lethal weapons.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Pit-bulls are potential dangers- doesn't take a genious to grasp this concept. I've sent more than one to the "big pit in the sky." I live in the country and tolerate no loose dogs. It's on my property only once.

A neighbor was hospitalized for nine months from HER Rot., another attacked by a coyote, another by a small dog pack.

Many years back (72-74?), in Santa Fe, N.M. (USA) feral dog packs roamed the city. Everything from miniature poodles to Great Danes. The city announced it was going after the packs- within days over a hundred dog owners couldn't find their pets!

Keep your dog on your property and don't worry about others, why should they have to worry whether "killer" is really a gentle baby kisser or not?

BTW, the woman in the hospital- her dogs name WAS "baby"



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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I look at it this way... give the people a choice... be charged as a criminal if your dog attacks someone or give it up.

Don't take this the wrong way.... but I'm basing this on where I live. The only people I see around me with pit bulls are degenerates. Its like their way of justifying their meaningless lives. If its not Pits then its Rottweilers or Chows. Its like being less of a person is somehow made whole by having an attack dog. I base this on where I live. But I've been to better neighborhoods and you just don't see normal people having these kind of dogs. Well maybe more having Chows and possibly Rottweilers but never Pit Bulls. Some people take good care of their Pits. There was a really nice one that used to live next to me. Poor pooch thought it was a Golden. But again its owner was a degenerate. You just don't see healthy families with a Pit Bull. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I've seen many Pits but not a single one in a good neighborhood in a healthy home. Not once! I know its probably stereotyping like old rich people with their Poodles. If you can even call that a dog



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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It should be the way guns are now treated here, lotsa paperwork and education. Then you can have your pitbull.



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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Excellent move Toronto!
Nice to see some people with common sence for once.

OK people say its the owner who is the fault, not the dog. In that case just ban pitbull owners (they can take their dogs with them when they leave)

Problem solved!

Not only should they be banned because of their aggression, but becuase they are PLUG UGLY as well. So there are asthetic and safety reasons as well ....



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