E-Cat -The Greatest Invention of All Time?!, page 5

reply to post by john_bmth

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Like I said, have some patience, john_b.

These guys seem to know what they're doing, so I'm not worried at all.

And the oil/coal/nuclear industries won't collapse overnight, it'll take a few years yet I'm sure, so DON'T PANIC john_b!!

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by john_bmth

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It's not my job to prove this technology to oil/coal/nuclear industry shills in ATS threads.

I have nothing more to contribute. Go ahead and get the last word if you feel the need...

No it's NOT your job, but, 'scuse me...use the classic phrase "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence".

MIND YOU we are [basically] dealing with nothing less than a complete rewrite of physics here, he even used the word "over-unity" yesterday in some of those videos.

You know, EVERYONE can make some claims, appear in a video,....write some ominous paper and make multiple statements on "some blogs".

If you look around, on most blogs and sites are a zillion people commenting PURELY based on their wishful thinking..congratulating him on his "success" etc . - and NO SINGLE PERSON has any real information except those claims by this *single man* who obviously has some financial gains and interests from it.

You know, skepticism and criticism is NOTHING BAD, it actually helps to see clearer...and the scientific method is NOTHING BAD either....in particular when it comes to such fantastic and extraordinary claims.

I can not go public and claim things and use words like "over-unity" and at the same time do an incredible sloppy and failure-laden job of providing proof (i can do that on ATS tho ) - but in terms of providing data to the scientific community you need to do more than just make some claims - otherwise you look like a scammer or like someone who is delusional.

Even me as a non-engineer would have many questions and critical remarks in regards to this invention and the claims - and they are not answered. Now imagine a scientist, someone who wants to see hard data...and i am talking about real data which does not leave any doubt...too bad it doesn't exist, simply alone because never ever did an INDEPENDENT team of scientists have a chance to look at this, do tests etc.

***

Claim: The e-cat is so fantastic it runs for days, weeks and only needs to be charged "once every 6 months"...
PROOF PLEASE. Show me device working for many days how it produces endless energy for days and weeks? Where is it?

--> And not a single test aborted after 3 hours where a GENERATOR was still connected to the machine and *Rossi was the only man taking readings* - plus that control scientist only measuring temps outside the generator.

He could easily put a device somewhere and let it run somewhere for some days, even reduced power output, whatever...and record all that and present it to the world how it produces energy...THIS IS WHAT THIS IS WHOLE INVENTION IS ABOUT, what he is claiming!

Why does he not do it? We don't have a working device which produces endless energy, all we have is words out of his mouth and rather ominous test-setups running for a few hours and NO independent scientists being able to validate the claims.

reply to post by flexy123

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If you read the articles more carefully, the "customer" did have a team of engineers there to test and take measurements.

The "customer" are not disclosing themselves or the identities of the engineers yet - but this was only the first day!

Have some patience, they'll probably publish everything when they're ready.

Have some patience and watch and wait, which shouldn't be a problem, unless you're a shill here to debunk...

reply to post by cupocoffee

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Yeah, the mystery customer (who may not even exist or could just as well be a shell company of Rossi) and their team of unknown engineers. Nothing has changed: no independent confirmation, no public experiment in a controlled environment, no peer-reviewed paper on the underlying science, no reproducibilty, you want me to continue? It's rather easy and cheap to dismiss every critical voice as a "shill", but that just won't cut it. Sooner or later, the cards will have to be put on the table. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid this will all turn out to be a big hoax or, worse, a case of fraud. Rossi is doing an excellent job at appearing as shady and non-scientific as possible.

Oh, and the guy who thought it was impressive that Rossi sold his house to continue the experiment: I'm afraid that only fuels my suspicions. Usually when people tell you they sold everything to invest in a company/stocks/research, they're conmen looking for new victims.

Originally posted by steve_montana
reply to post by cupocoffee

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Yeah, the mystery customer (who may not even exist or could just as well be a shell company of Rossi) and their team of unknown engineers. Nothing has changed: no independent confirmation, no public experiment in a controlled environment, no peer-reviewed paper on the underlying science, no reproducibilty, you want me to continue?

To do all that, Rossi would have to give away the secret to the technology, and then he would lose all control of his intellectual property, and then he would make no money. He deserves to make money from his invention, doesn't he?

A third-party company running a real power plant and producing and selling real power using his technology is all the proof we'll need.

Besides, he has had independent confirmations. How about when he had an E-Cat independently validated by that "Swedish Skeptic Society"? Did you miss that story?

Originally posted by cupocoffee
To do all that, Rossi would have to give away the secret to the technology, and then he would lose all control of his intellectual property, and then he would make no money. He deserves to make money from his invention, doesn't he?

Other companies don't seem to have this problem so why is Rossi hiding behind this poor excuse?

A third-party company running a real power plant and producing and selling real power using his technology is all the proof we'll need.

Today was supposed to be "the big day" that was gonna put all the sceptics to rest. Surprise surprise, no evidence was presented, only more smoke and mirrors. I'm sure there'll be another date, then another date, and so on, and every time the Rossi apologists will start making excuses for why there's still no evidence.

Besides, he has had independent confirmations. How about when he had an E-Cat independently validated by that "Swedish Skeptic Society"? Did you miss that story?

Fail. This claim has been debunked before. Not only that, but you're contradicting yourself by attempting to present this claim as evidence, only to say that he can't have independent testing because he doesn't want to "give away the secret to the technology". So which is it?

To do all that, Rossi would have to give away the secret to the technology, and then he would lose all control of his intellectual property, and then he would make no money. He deserves to make money from his invention, doesn't he?

That's what patents are for. He would not lose control over intellectual property by "giving away the secret to the technology". In fact, he would need to do precisely that in order to get a patent, which is why is he having trouble patenting his invention. Any university worth its salt has a legal department that can help with patents, there is no reason to believe that the university of Bologna does not have a similar department. Wait, let me google that for you:

www.eng.unibo.it...

A third-party company running a real power plant and producing and selling real power using his technology is all the proof we'll need.

Yet, we don't have that. All we have is a claim that a mystery company had unknown engineers validate the experiment.

Besides, he has had independent confirmations. How about when he had an E-Cat independently validated by that "Swedish Skeptic Society"? Did you miss that story?

Nope, didn't miss that story, but it seems you did. Here, I'll help you out: here is the actual report:

www.nyteknik.se...

Here's an interview with the Swedish researchers:

www.youtube.com...

So yeah, they seem interested (as am I), but that's not the same thing as independent validation. Note that the word validation in regards with the Swedes is only used on websites such as pesn. As I said (and I mean this), I hope I'm wrong and I'll be the first to admit it when e-cat plants are up and running or even when Rossi is more open about his setup. Maybe the patent office has just had a very slow year, you never know.

reply to post by steve_montana

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You're assuming there's anything to patent. Most technology in the energy field is now 40+ years old and in the public domain. The only thing he might be able to patent would be how he's combining the materials to achieve fusion at relatively low temperatures, of if he invented a new catalyst.

But if say the catalyst is nothing more than salt or antifreeze, most countries won't give him a patent. If you thought robbers and thieves were bad, wait till you see what big corporations can do.

reply to post by john_bmth

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As I already said john_b, a third-party company running a power plant with the technology is sufficient enough independent testing and evidence for me; patents or no patents.

If it's not for you, well that's your problem...

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by john_bmth

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As I already said john_b, a third-party company running a power plant with the technology is sufficient enough independent testing and evidence for me; patents or no patents.

If it's not for you, well that's your problem...

edit on 29-10-2011 by cupocoffee because: (no reason given)

...except there is no third party running a power plant with the technology, is there? So how come you're so sure the claims are legit when the very thing you state would be proof hasn't happened yet?

reply to post by john_bmth

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How come you're so sure the claims aren't legit?

One thing about me is that sometimes I'll actually trust a person's word if they seem like an honorable sort of person.

Sterling Allan was there, he witnessed all these things, and even shot video of a lot of it; so I have no reason to believe he's lying.

If you want to assume he's a liar, well that's your issue.

reply to post by Miccey

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Did you read the articles?

Sterling Allan specifically stated that the customer was happy with the results, and paid up.

I see no reason to believe that he's lying about this. If you want to assume that he's lying, well that's up to you, but I think you're being unnecessarily pessimistic here....

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