Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


I agree with it even thought I used Fasfa. Also the opting out of SS if very nice as well, I would never do it but would be nice for savers.

if you have a kid that needs 10k a year to go school and the gov gives him 6 now. but then the gov wont give him 6. well the school will lower tuition to a probable 4-5k a year because of 1 simple thing. the average person CANNOT pay for college out of pocket. so they can turn away 90% of there student (who if the loans were pulled would probably unenroll if tuition didn't go down)
OR lower cost of attendance to a reasonable amount and keep 90% of their students there.

its 7k to go to school at the University of Arkansas(where i attend).
i am eligible for 5500 dollars of federal aid.
the school only expects me to pay 1500 of my own money to go.
if u take away the aid. they know it would be a joke to think id pay 7000 a year of my own money while in school not make any money. a PT job would pay for school at that point. but it wouldn't pay for rent or food or gas or anything.
i personally knew that getting a job while going to school for Mechanical Engineering was going to be hard. hell i dont work and im a FULL TIME student, in every bit of that word. there is no time for working with what i have to do every day. So i have loans to live equal to the cost of attendance which is 20k a year. That include bills, rent, food, gas, tuition, books, everything but leisure activities. i know that when i get out of school i will have 80000 dollars worth of payments to make and i am fully prepared to make them when it comes time. but, if u dropped tuition 4k a year thats a significant amount off. probably a total of 20k dollars after interest is calculated. which would change monthly payments DRASTICALLY. I vote Ron Paul. this is what is needed. I dont want some gambling wall street company controlling the interest rate of my loans and when it comes times to pay it back if i have a problem, i CANNOT drive down the street and talk to my agent. States Rights, State Education.

He also wants to do things that will cut the cost of actually going to school.

Usually when the government is involved it makes everything more expensive.

I see his logic , but it might be a bit more difficult to execute.

I'd still rather go with Paul than the rest of the puppets.

i think that alot of the money spending issues with the government are hard for us to grasp. We dont know where money is thrown and where it isnt. But Ron Paul does, and i believe him to be a pretty smart man when it comes to numbers and knowing how something will affect our economy.
If someone tells u 10 times something is going to happen, and everytime it does. Are you going to believe hmi on the 11th time?....


Hell id believe on the 4th time. 1 is lucky 2 is good guesser 3 is well informed 4 is knowledge.

reply to post by ThaLoccster

Paul blamed government intervention in the economy for rising tuition.
"Just think of all this willingness to want to help every student get a college education,"so yea ron paul said he wants to cut federal funds but he also said what i posted above and much more if you read more then the first 4 lines. Before we all get anger let us read between the lines because If you emphasize on the negative you'll never find the positive. The positive in this case is, the fact that Mr. paul probally has ideas on how to cut the cost of schooling, creating a situation where all people have the ability to obtain a high source of education. Which as a broke student sounds awsome, and id love to hear how he plans to do it.

I actually got a few ideas on whats gonna go down. The one id say is most likely starts off with alot of ideas of goverment conduct changed and entities we know as corporations stop getting the rights of people and gain a new set of rights based on thier impact on the economy. Which would rock because because these people running the system into the ground have alredy popped the champagne and and they dont seem to mind at all going down with the ship, haha what sucks though for us is, most of us are asleep on that ship.

After we muzzel these greedy entities and losen thier tight grip around the the throat of america we the people will have a better grasp on achieving what america was established for, the peace and prosperity to live freely in a manor where all men and women have the right to establish themselves in any light they wish to shed..except now we will make sure the people that run the istitiues and othere agencies of educationcant cant abuse finance. Educational entities abuse on the finacial situation of adults nation wide has created a vacum in this nations economy. Thier sucking you dry of all your money and money you wont have for potentially decades. In the end you are garenteed nothing, you either make it or you dont, well you can always join the army , the point being if the people no longer live in a system that can maintain all of us its time to change the system. we've done it plenty of times america is no stranger to drastic change just like slavery, womens rights, to accepting race and not violating a persons rights because of how they look or who they are, well except native americans because we never even gave native americans the chance to exercise any right to be as there very much peaceful people see fit. We gave them a refuge and showed them how they need to produce. Now it cant help but make me think how the consumer is like the native americans in the eyes of the governing body, with holding advancements in health care, creating an endless competition amongest its people through finance manipulation, pushing media to paint a picture of reality as so,that you can be as informed as they think you should be,which should be just as much as any man. Basicly what im saying is certain entites are chasing us west and shooting as we run, because the sooner were off "thier" land the better in the eyes that wish to poses and not maintain. so yea thats the kind of rantold jackie D will bring out of you.so yea pay attention and think before you start lashing out or you'll recieve a what seemed to take forever to type out rant ....Ah Burned!

Great post OP. I gotta say wasn't ron pauls biggest fan to begin with but he grew on me.

He says education needs a reform because it is not correct. We have been creating artificial jobs for ourselfs for a long time now, why do you think the market is so dry and they want to build MORE houses (Where I come from anyway) to get more people into laboring working (to get people off the unemployment, they build houses even though they complain theirs too much people in the world :O)

Hopefully he gets presidency and sets everything and everyone straight on the matter and clears this # up.

Originally posted by Strype
reply to post by bacci0909

 

Very good point. I did consider that. However, I don't see the colleges being too excited about losing such a large percentage of their income and student-base either. I imagine the balance wouldn't be a smooth, nor speedy process.

Cheers,
Strype

edit on 24-10-2011 by Strype because: (no reason given)

True.. but I'm sure it's a process preferred to the alternative.. that's what's confusing me so much right now, and I'm not referring to you, but..

Why was everybody so into the idea of CHANGE last election, when what you thought was going to be change turned out to be anything but. Yet now, REAL CHANGE is staring you right in the face, and a lot of you are too afraid of it to give it your support.

This is what real change is.. it isn't easy, and it isn't some vague, feel-good rhetorical slogan.. It's a departure from the way things have been, and in a lot of aspects that will require transition. Are we willing to do it? I guess we'll find out..

reply to post by TinkerHaus


It never ceases to amaze me the amount of ignorance that is displayed on this website, despite it's slogan being "Deny Ignorance". If some people had the brain power to educate yourself and listen to what the man says perhaps they would be enlightened. As he said in the video that was posted by CynicalDrivel, describing how things worked when he went to college: There were no federal loans, and college was actually affordable. He was able to work and pay for his way through medical school. He also describes how any time that the government gets involved in something, it always ends up being extremely expensive (why do you think healthcare prices have been rising?) Dr. Paul is certainly no shill for big business and the rich as so many left wingers like to pretend. He constantly brings up the point that the middle class is being screwed over by big banks and how the middle class has been picking up the bill (thanks to the likes of Bush and Obama). Ignorance is a disease, and it seems to be spreading like the plague.

reply to post by miniatus




before we can "break the habit" a way must be found for us to be able to live within our means????

at one time, one could work full time, and pay for a few college courses, attend part time, and get a degree....without putting themselves insanely into debt, or into debt at all!!

go talk to a counselor in a college now days and tell them this is what you want to do, they'll laugh at ya (I know, they laughed at me when I told them that this is what I wanted my son to do.....laughed at him also when he told them), and then push the loan papers on ya!!!

same with healthcare!!! it's so rediculously priced, well, can't no one really afford it...

it's not the little people who need to learn to live within their means, it's the bigger fishies swimming in the pond!!!
their desire for more and more, higher pay, higher bonuses, higher, higher, more, more, have hiked up the costs it takes for us pions to live!!! the gov't's role in this is that it's their student loans and such that are enabling the colleges to rake in those kinds of tuitions and fees!!!

O'Sullivan and other protesters railed against the high wages of some faculty and administrators, such as President Charles Steger, and football coaches, in comparison with the low wages they said many other Tech employees earn.

According to state and university records, Steger earns a base salary of $457,040 and a total annual compensation of $755,764. Head football coach Frank Beamer this season earns a base salary of $272,328, in addition to more than $1.8 million in incentives and appearance fees, The (Norfolk) Virginian-Pilot reported this year.

www.roanoke.com...

maybe the students just can't afford to be paying the danged football coach over a million dollars!

here's an idea, every college course, every high school course, should be put online, video lectures, ects.... and well, testing centers could be set up across the country. there would be a modest cost to this. but, well, once the lectures and all are developed and uploaded, the cost would be minimal...
and well, let every american who would like to access them for free with a modest testing fee if they wish to be certified in the field they are studying. and, well, if some want to go into debt and pay the outrageous sum of money of a brick and mortar school, fine, let them....at least there is an alternative for the sane ones who see just what kind of scam is being run!

Although I'm not really a Ron Paul "supporter" I DO agree with what he is saying, we DO need to eliminate federal student loans, as well as all of the other useless Govt programs he, and others mentioned, such as the EPA.

Federal student loans are a SCAM. I was in college and dropped out almost 10 years ago because of 3 reasons:

1) I was hardly learning anything new; they basically "teach" you how to read books that the professors themselves usually write.

2) The cost of tuition was going up EVERY semester - and this was around 10 years ago, god only knows how much its gone up since then. The colleges like to have continuous expansion programs going on to "fool" people - like building that brand new 50 million dollar library, etc.

3) My room mates were getting into drugs way too much, and although I liked to party too, I wasn't into things like beating each other up or jumping off the roof to get more pain killers.

So, I dropped out.

Because I dropped out, it of course is harder for me to find a job - because I don't have that magical piece of paper to show how much I "know" and how much cash I put into the system.
I HAVE worked all kinds of random jobs over the years, but because I wasn't being paid much and was constantly moved around - because of the fact that I had to bend over and take a lot of "temp jobs" - which I found going through - guess what - the Govt!

I still have over $20,000 worth of debt which has of course defaulted that I have no way of paying. I have no clue what the original loans were, at the time I had received several scholarships as well, mainly from places like my Church... suprise, suprise? Anyway, I wasn't even ready for college because of personal health problems - cancer - which my doctors are now telling me has returned after being fine for around 10 years as well... conspiracy? God I hope not, but my parents demanded that I go right away and did all of the paperwork then just shoved it in my face and told me to sign. (what do you expect parents to do?)

My loans have been sold from company to company so many times now I don't even have any idea who I'm supposed to be paying anymore.

Ok, I'm done "ranting and raging" now. Back to the point.

The point is that the Govt is working together with the banks, as well as the educational system, among other things. They WANT to raise prices as much as they can, and will keep doing it for as long as they possibly can.

You DO realize that the majority of these new jobs created are government jobs right?
Now I don't HATE the government, I just hate how they like to take advantage of everything.

We do need some system of education, health care, safety, defense, etc - but I also think things would be a lot better if these systems were made more private, and thus created more competition and jobs for EVERYONE - which was also touched on by several delegates yesterday.

As mentioned in various other threads on here, I like Ron Paul a lot, but I REALLY do NOT believe he will do half of the things he's saying; even if way deep down inside he IS being completely honest, there is NO WAY he will stand up to all of his "promises" if he wins and moves into the White House - It NEVER happens people. Wake up already.

BTW, Newt Gingrich's speech yesterday was amazing, but how much of it lies?
Rick Santorium said a lot of really good things too, and I was very surprised when he mentioned that all 7 of his children are home schooled. A presidential candidate that home-schools his children? OH THE BLASPHEMY!

Oh yea, and I just thought of another thing:

For all of you college students out there complaining about this, I totally think instead of everyone running out and getting loans as fast as they can, we should instead ALL be required to work for a few years at a "less desirable" job; things like.. factories, gas stations, fast food restaurants, janitors - you get the idea. That way people would actually learn some real life job skills, and would get a much better idea of where they want to be later on in life, while also having respect for all of us out here that are forced to work so-called "meaningless" jobs. In reality, without all of the "stupid, meaningless" employees out there, there wouldn't be any super rich corporations. Just remember, anything can happen. Anyone can wake up tomorrow and find out they have cancer, or get fired from their AWESOME job. These days, nobody cares until it happens to them - myself included. I was a huge punk ass back in high school. Not all of us grow up with grand parents around to teach us lessons like this; I myself didn't and I used to make fun of the "old people" all of the time - sound familiar anyone?

reply to post by Time2Think


yes, epa's useless, never did a danged bit of good, riiiiiight!!!

ajanarkhonje.blogspot.com...

this could of been america, if it wasn't for the epa!!!!

the laws the epa came up with was passed in my later childhood....
areas that I had a tendency to play in are now on epa's superfund list I believe!!!

we shouldn't be loosening our laws so that the corps can bring manufacturing here and dump their toxic waste wherever they want!!! china and india and the rest of the developing countries need to grow a backbone and start writing their own laws and start protecting their people!!!

College education only for the rich.

Cant wait for that to happen.

reply to post by shogu666


dept of ed also doles out cash to local elementary and high schools also....
so, well,
maybe it's more like any education only for the rich!! nice unskilled illiterate population for the corps to come back to and exploit!!! stupid enough to work for pennies, and well, work 20 hours out of the 24 hour day for their bread and a roof over their head!!!

Education should be freely available to everyone!

The whole "buy your degree" mentality makes students expect to pass, regardless of the quality of their work! The university frowns on teachers failing too many students, because they see education as a product to be sold, and the customer (students and their parents) expect good results for their hard-earned cash.

The overall effect is a lowering of teaching standards.

The quality of university education has been declining as academic institutions are being "corporatised", focusing on research over education. As more and more educational institutions are becoming "research" focussed, we are losing many of our best educators in favor of researchers (with good publication records, but can’t teach at all) who care more about the next grant than the quality of the education they are providing.

reply to post by puzzlesphere


I'm a screen printer who works for a small little company that produces banners and collegiate licensed banners and pennants for many of the colleges. well, we have go to some company to get the licensing. lately the colleges have been conned into believing that if they spend a ton of money developing a brand, well, they will be able to have the same standing as the dallas cowboys or whatever. so, well, where we used to have alot of freedom (our company was one of the few that help the colleges with their images as far as mascots and the like), well, we are being restricted to just some stupid little brand mark which alot of times just don't work too well with our products.
but, well, the colleges seem to have all this money to pay for this branding.....thinking it will promote their sports team better!!!!

it's killing our business!!!

Originally posted by samlf3rd
reply to post by ThaLoccster

 

Wow, I'm a college student, later Ron Paul.

Ron Paul has a point.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


While I agree with some of what Ron Paul says, this is classic right-wing policy (I should also point out I dislike the two-party system, but this point is made in the context of the left/right arguement). Education used to be free in Australia and other countries, but the right (whenever it holds government) has steadily eroded freely available education, and has done it's best to make education an endeavor for the elite.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


People are going to hate me for this but in general....I see so many kids in college who just attend because their parents told them to or they think they are suppose to. 95% of all grads do a line of work different then what they study...including myself. I think the standard of college should be raised a bit hire. I got straight A's and was on the Dean's list at my school and I should by no means be in that top % of education. Now I went to a University with low requirements, but still.

I feel that a large number of the students in college today are just wasting time. Maybe 20%. So I would make it hard to receive scholarships and loans. Take away the loan if you don't meet a certain GPA. That is my take on it. Make it harder to weed out that 20%.

Originally posted by samlf3rd
reply to post by ThaLoccster

 

Wow, I'm a college student, later Ron Paul.

The USA presidency is the most serious job position there is in America. Most serious job positions require two to three hours worth of interviews plus a couple hours of research. That is five hours. Yet you seem to think taking three to five seconds worth of time to read a news headline is sufficient to decide who will be president. You're attitude is everything wrong with America. Rather than reading to the third paragraph to discover that Paul actually won't be cutting student loans as part of his plan and merely wishes to eventually phase them out, you just assume the headline was entirely accurate that you won't be getting your student loans.

The USA's debt build-up is currently $1.3 trillion, yet Paul will only be cuttingt $1 trillion. Where are YOU going to cut the extra 300 billion out of the budget wise guy? Because let me tell you, simple math says the USA will be financially destroyed if it keeps going quite shortly! Italy and Greece were financially destroyed when they hit 120% to 130% GDP. The USA will be at 120% to 130% within ten years at current rate of debt build-up! Paul's plan requires additional cuts in the future. So lets hear your plan so I can attack you and claim you're such an awful person you don't deserve the time of day to consider a vote for.

But that doesn't concern you because you took three seconds of time to learn you won't be getting more free stuff courtesy of the government. Jerk.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


Think about what you just said... "federal financial aid is the only reason I can afford school". Do you not see a problem there? Federal Financial aid is the reason tuition prices have risen to these ridiculous heights. It's a giant trap to lock you in debt to the federal government...

Look at it this way:

Let's pretend that I sell widgets--and I have thoroughly convinced everyone in the world that they must by my widgets if they ever want a chance at securing a happy future. So I raise my prices because of simple supply and demand economics. Then...*trumpet music*...the government comes to the rescue--trying to make it FAIR (because that word appears so many times in the constitution) so that EVERYONE can afford my widgets. Suddenly the government starts giving guaranteed loans to everyone who wants one so they can buy my widgets. This creates a situation where EVERYONE believes they need my widgets, and the government is promising to give them loans (regardless of the amount) so they can buy my widgets. OF COURSE I'm gonna REALLY jack up my prices now.

This is possibly the slickest con in the history of cons--because, not only does government give out these loans to anyone who seeks them, they've removed all risk typically associated with lending by writing the law so that these loans can't be wiped out by bankruptcy. Talk about stacking the deck!!!!! You must realize that the government and the colleges are working as one unit to shakedown the citizens for as much money as possible. Do you think the government REALLY cares if you receive a good education, or is it more likely they want you to owe them money????????

Of course most colleges are tax exempt... the government collects that money (and a lot more) through interest on the loans. The government makes more money directly off of your interest than they would ever make by taxing the college itself, and the college is rewarded for helping the government fleece you by not having to pay taxes.

Everyone is quick to blame the colleges for being greedy because they forget the role the government is playing. As prices go up, TWO things happen:
1) the college makes more money.
2) the government makes more money on the interest from those loans (without fear of you declaring bankruptcy)

Federal Financial Aid is a horrible, unconstitutional, and malicious device which is used by the government to enslave us all in debt. They pretend they are helping us (calling it aid), when they are really just helping themselves to our money for years to come.