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Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

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posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


That will never happen. We can't do anything to a minority, but we can certainly stick it to the middle class people in this country, just a little bit more.


You're probably right.
I think we need to repeal the 14th amendment too...
But I know they just want to stick it to poor and middle class whites, any other group and you get A#@ loads of money thrown at you and special favors and "Targetted" scholarships, etc etc etc.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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All of Ron Paul's positions require some critical thinking.

If people continue to use little or no thought with regards to his positions, you simply will not understand. Its important to understand because it will help you to realize why he makes sense.

Does anyone really think that he doesn't want people to get an education, really?

Look, the fact is that the federal government ruins or bankrupts EVERY program it has ever touched from social security to education. Test scores are at an all time low and the Department of Education is bigger now than its ever been.

Please realize, the system LOVES debt. They love to bury us in debt, whether its credit card debt, mortgage debt, a car loan etc. What better way to get us into debt than at the starting gates at age 18?


And borrowing for college is at record levels. The Federal Reserve Bank of New York says students and parents took out a record $100 billion last year and owe more on student loans - more than $1 trillion is outstanding - than on credit cards.

www.twincities.com...

ONE TRILLION. This is really scary. Think the housing bubble is something? Just look at the COLLEGE BUBBLE that's being created right in front of us.

With government guaranteei­ng these loans, students are essentiall­y bidding these tuition prices higher. Universiti­es have no restraint and have no incentive to lower tuition because they KNOW that the government will foot the bill.

If tomorrow federal student loans were CANCELED, does that mean colleges would have empty classrooms­...NO!!! Colleges would have to react to this drop in demand and slash costs and overhead thereby lowering tuition.

There are other ways to get an education WITHOUT going into debt and without causing education prices to sky rocket.
edit on 24-10-2011 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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I don't think I'm the only person with a degree who can say the system we have now is not working.
I think we need a drastic change on all fronts, and Paul seems to be a man who can deliver such, as he is certainly a man of his word.

The situation makes me recall Einstein: "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Well, nothings going to change in OUR favor if we keep electing presidents whose thinking patterns are BOUGHT.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by TinkerHaus
 


Agreed, eduction is one of the few things I actually want Government to handle. Equal opportunity for all and all that. I'm not sure I agree with Ron on this one though. Yes debt is a bad thing and its what has gotten many of us enslaved. I mean how many of us actually get to keep the money we labor for without it going to the credit card companies, the government, and banks?

I was never fully behind Ron Paul on education, but if we want to end the debt based society its time to make some cut backs. Good thing I'm considering the Navy, thats how I plan to pay for college.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 02:30 AM
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Hummmmmm could Ron Paul be the real deal this time around? Not another liar like Barry Obama? He is definitely going all out in fixing our country even if it means losing popularity with some of the voters (in this case college students) Interesting....

If hes the real deal, I'm Ron Paul all the way!



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 02:39 AM
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Oh... My... God...

Not a one of you has posted anything about the 90/10 rule?

ATS, I am disappoint


Here is some reading material for you all: The Hidden Factor Driving up the Cost of a College Education




The 90/10 rule is a regulation that limits nontraditional schools from receiving more than 90% of their funding from Title IV funds (Pell grants and Stafford loans). These nontraditional schools are more commonly known as career colleges or trade schools and operate on a for-profit basis.


All well-intentioned so far, lets see what happens.




So how does the 90/10 rule drive up the cost of a college education? The effect is achieved in 2 ways. First, there's the percentage of students that attend a school who receive Title IV aid. If most of the students who attend a school are financially able to pay their own way without receiving federal aid, the 90/10 rule doesn't come into play. When an increasing percentage of students start receiving federal aid, problems result. I'll explain in a moment. The second component that comes into play is when Congress increases the amount of Pell grant money or Stafford loan money that a student is eligible to receive. If a student can get more money then that edges the total funding closer and closer to 90% federal coverage.


So... there comes a problem when government funding gets too close to 90%. Lets see what happens.




Here's what happens. In either scenario, the school begins taking in a greater portion of its total funds as federal aid dollars. It doesn't matter whether that money is coming as a result of more students attending who choose to apply for federal money or whether the increase is coming from a higher funding eligibility as a result of congressional legislation. More federal dollars are coming in. If that amount gets uncomfortably close to 90% of the total funding the school has to do something to decrease that percentage. A school is not going to turn students away in order to address a 90/10 problem, so the alternative is to raise the tuition. By raising the tuition the federal money that students receive doesn't go quite as far. In order to attend the school the students will have to come up with more money out of pocket to cover the cost of their education. They typically come up with this money by taking out private loans or using personal credit cards.


So when the government funding gets too close to 90% the "college board" has a meeting and decides to raise the tuition costs to avoid problems with the law, got it.


As a result college tuition gets harder to pay, gotcha.




In response to the increase in tuition by the schools, Congress reacts by increasing the student eligibility for Pell grants and Stafford loans. In response to the increased grant and loan money coming in, these schools increase their tuition in order to stay within the 90/10 regulations. It becomes a vicious cycle with the net result being that tuition continues to increase because it has to.


So when the tuition cost goes up... so do the government backed loans, got it. And of course the colleges have to raise the tuition in response in order to avoid problems with the law. Just rinse and repeat as they say.




How does this affect traditional 4-year and 2-year colleges? As the career colleges and trade schools increase their tuitions and are able to pay their instructors better it drives up the salary expectations of the traditional schools. A rising tide lifts all ships and rising tuition spreads across the board.


Wow, look at the market forces at work there.


Something this screwed up could only have been spawned by government.

edit on 24-10-2011 by Elzon because: spelling




posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 02:49 AM
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Education is stupid

Banks will lend to 18 year olds without credit or collateral


We need a nation of low skilled workers

GO RON PAUL!!!!



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


There is one thing you didn't take into account. There are far more poor people than rich and if colleges cannot fill classrooms then they will have to drop tuition costs, its simple economics. The rich would not hold monopolies on college education, they would invest in giving loans and raking in profits from interest. Essentially the private sector would fill the federal loans spot, maybe for the worse, maybe for the better.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:02 AM
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Why do you think a college degree costs $80,000? Because students can afford it.
How can they afford it? Because of the socialist-style education assistance from Mother Government.

Take out the social assistance, prices drop to levels that are affordable.

Why ending Federal assistance is good...

  1. Efficiency-driven competitive free-markets will see you'll probably be better off
  2. Less bureaucratic bloat sucking up money you end up earning from your degree
  3. One less Government tentacle out of our lives

This is libertarianism, and it does take a shift in thinking and understanding to appreciate the beauty of it and how it could change the US and much of the world.

Go Ron Paul.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by miniatus
I agree with Paul on this .. and I see his point.. It's a system that costs the government a lot of money to provide, it has put maaany americans in debt that they will be spending large parts of their life trying to pay off, if they can even get work in the first place.. Federal student loans haven't been out there forever, we managed before they existed..

The education system itself is a joke.. as pointed out above, the cost of education is extreme.. it doesn't need to be!

The big problem is we've lost our ability to live within our means.. we're a society of borrowing and we need to break that habit.. we just need to
edit on 23-10-2011 by miniatus because: (no reason given)



You're all fools to believe you NEED a piece of paper that tells you that your'e worth something to go get a job doing what you love.

I never did my highschool "grade" exams, i did work experience instead.

I did not go to Uni/Colledge. I did not go to Tafe or any after school studies.

I am 25, earning just under 100k a year, working in the profession that i love (IT)



Get off your'e lazy asses and realise that piece of paper or not, you're going to have to start from the bottom and work you're way up regardless. The piece of paper doesnt realy mean #, its experience that they want. Go out and get a job as a trainee in the profession that you love - There are plenty of positions avaliable, it just seems people seem insulted/think they are "better than that"



Idiots.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:21 AM
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if they phased out student loans then maybe tuition would be affordable again. instead, your credit has more bearing on your education than your grades.

colleges are now at a point where they are dependent on student loans to operate.

colleges charge these massive tuitions because the majority of students will pay thru student loans. if not they've either earned a scholarship or have wealthy parents that can afford inflated prices.

if paul phased out the student loans, colleges around the country will lose the majority of their student body.

they would be forced to drop prices to be financially viable making it affordable to more people.

paul is trying to get colleges back to a capital based market instead of the credit based market they are currently functioning at. much like the entire united states of america.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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For once, I find myself agreeing with Mr. Paul, at least in the majority.

Someone early in this thread wailed "Why do I need to have an $80,000 degree to be an interior decorator?"...Good question. Why do you? As far as I know, there isn't an "American Interior Decorators' Association" that requires you to be licensed. If you're good at the job, go for it. The degree might make it easier, but it's not a requirement.

Too many people in the US have fallen victim to two major fallacies regarding a college education:

One, that it's necessary to have one to be successful (you can ask Bill Gates, Rush Limbaugh, or, until recently, Steve Jobs about that...as far as I know, none of those men were degree holders until after they became successful). Is a degree required for some fields? Certainly...and if you really want that degree, you always have the option of working to raise the money, or taking out a non-government loan for the cost. You might also go to a less-expensive university (a state or community college, perhaps?) for your basic courses, then finish your specialized training in the more expensive school. What's the old saying about "where there's a will, there's a way"?

Second, that a university education is some form of 'right'. It's not, in any way, shape, or form, a 'right'. It's a privilege. Pull up the Constitution and show me where this 'right' to an education exists...the closest thing you'll find is a prohibition in discrimination in matters of education. That does *not* make it a right.

Those things said, I have no real problem with the government backing certain kinds of education. Heaven knows we need more doctors, teachers, engineers, and scientists, and if meeting the demand for those fields requires government funding, I have no problem with that. On the other hand, if you want to study art, classical French, or Womyns' Studies, I support your freedom to do so...but don't ask me (or Uncle Sam) to pay for it. In plain English, the government should (if necessary) pay to produce the graduates it needs. Full stop.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:27 AM
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Why is everyone here only talking about loans? Everyone has to pay their loans back, there is no getting out of it. Unless you never work again in your lifetime.

What about grants? My older sister gets grants because she is married and considered an "independent". She gets thousands of free money in government grants a semester. She never graduates because she wants more of that free money she'll never have to pay back.

I can't get any grants because I'm considered a dependent and fall under my moms income. My parents give me 0 money to go to college. I'm in the exact same boat as my sister but cannot get any grants? What does this mean? That my sister has been going to college for years more than me but has thousands less in loans she has to pay back and I have only been going for 2 years.

So the middle class is getting screwed.

But noooooo let's all cry about those loans everyone HAS to pay back.

Let's all get upset over the youth of the nation getting educational loans AND GET SOOOO MAD over it. But bankers can get TRILLIONS of free money and you get a fraction of anger response to that.

More libertarian psychological warfare going on towards your neighbor than some billionaire getting bailout money.




edit on 10/24/2011 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/24/2011 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:38 AM
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Haha... some of these responses remind me of a comment a guy I was talking to made the other day. He said "Ron Paul wants to abolish the department of education, but I just don't think every parent is equipped to home school".. he literally thought no department of education meant no schools.. !!

Look, again with the idea of how government sucks at everything. He's saying he'd phase out FEDERAL student loans.. and just the same way that if there were no postal service, FedEx, Diehl, and whatever other private companies would step up, there would be private companies to provide student loans as well.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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Yikes. If he thinks pulling student loans without drastically lowering admission prices will solve any problems, I believe he's in for a rude awakening. If students with wealthy parents are the only people graduating from college, getting advanced educations and taking the "good jobs," we'll be even deeper in crisis then we've ever been, minus our last paddle. Talk about 99% vs 1%...

It takes about what? Five years of flippin' burgers to afford college admission these days? That's just admission. Combine that with the eight years it'll take to get a four year degree, due to having to work full-time while schooling, you should have your BA around 31. No biggie, right?


Cheers,
Strype
edit on 24-10-2011 by Strype because: sp.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by Strype
Yikes. If he thinks pulling student loans without drastically lowering admission prices will solve any problems, I believe he's in for a rude awakening. If students with wealthy parents are the only people graduating from college, getting advanced educations and taking the "good jobs," we'll be even deeper in crisis then we've ever been, minus our last paddle. Talk about 99% vs 1%...


Cheers,
Strype
edit on 24-10-2011 by Strype because: sp.


Think for a second.. if the free money were taken away, the tuition costs would follow suit and go down. The only reason tuition has gotten so ridiculous is because they KNOW that they can charge what they charge and still get their money



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by Brother Stormhammer
For once, I find myself agreeing with Mr. Paul, at least in the majority.

Someone early in this thread wailed "Why do I need to have an $80,000 degree to be an interior decorator?"...Good question. Why do you? As far as I know, there isn't an "American Interior Decorators' Association" that requires you to be licensed. If you're good at the job, go for it. The degree might make it easier, but it's not a requirement.

Too many people in the US have fallen victim to two major fallacies regarding a college education:



Though I agree with you.. that's not even exactly the point. People are acting like student loans would stop completely. They would do no such thing. It would just be taken from the government hands (thank god).. private companies would offer student loans and do a much better job at keeping them solvent



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by bacci0909
 


Very good point. I did consider that. However, I don't see the colleges being too excited about losing such a large percentage of their income and student-base either. I imagine the balance wouldn't be a smooth, nor speedy process.

Cheers,
Strype
edit on 24-10-2011 by Strype because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 03:59 AM
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People misunderstand what he is proposing and its effects.

Currently system...

TO compete in the jobs market everyone needs to get their degree utrgently. To do this, they borrow tons of dough from a costly system that hammers the taxpayer. Once qualified, the new graduate is powerless drone, trying to pay the loan, and having to endure any garbage their employer dumps on them. Result? A country full of debt slaves.

The ALternative (Paul) system...

After High scholl, everyone gets an ordinary job. With no costly Student loan system to support, taxes are lower, so HighSchool kids can save like they did in the 1950's. Once they have saved enough, they can pay for college in cash which is now cheaper as Universities are less in demand with the pressure of tie on High School kids removed. Once their course is complete, the new graduate has no deb, so has clout against any would0be employer. This results in a higher salary, dignity and all their future income (with lower taxes and no student debt) can be saved to raise a family and put cash away to help their future kids pay for college. Result, a country full of gifted, hard working free people.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by Strype
reply to post by bacci0909
 


Very good point. I did consider that. However, I don't see the colleges being too excited about losing such a large percentage of their income and student-base either. I imagine the balance wouldn't be a smooth, nor speedy process.

Strype
edit on 24-10-2011 by Strype because: (no reason given)


GOOD!!!

My girlfriend is currently slogging through a degree course at the University of Ottawa... and WOW!!! Is the administration bad! B. A D. !!!!

Overstaffed lazy office folk make regular mistakes, lecture rooms are changed with no notice and she's failed courses because someone in the office has changed the exam room at the last moment and she was never told. And say a word of criticism about one of the primadonna lecturers and you get a D at best. Universities are palaces of graft, laziness and chronic overmanningm gorging themselces on BOTH the public purse AND with vicious high prices for courses.

Shutting off the demand the same way that Thatcher did will see inflated salaries crushed and layghable incompetance squeezed out.



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