Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by sonnny1

 

And do they plan on massive price-fixing so that the cost of goods and services is relative to income? 'Cause you can only have it one way or the other; progressive taxation and flat prices, or flat taxes and progressive pricing.

The reason is simple; 10% of a $200 paycheck is a much larger blow to buying power than 10% of a $200,000 paycheck, because prices remain the same. This gets even worse with the additional 10% sales tax they're talking about.

These plans are, one and all, nothing more than attempts to lure idiots into supporting a plan that amounts to "tax the poor for the benefit of the rich."

At least this guy thinks it's a good idea

I think most places have around 8 to 9% sales tax so this would push it close to 20%. Though I like the idea of taxing what I spend and not what I save it does push new taxes on about 47% of American families that do not pay federal taxes. One way to help is to not tax food, and though it does put new taxes on some it does promote money to stay in the pocket. Our biggest problem is really how much people owe on credit. That alone sucks the life blood out of the vast majority of paychecks.

We live in a society where are poor try to spend like our rich. A guy been out of work for two years, but has an IPhone, IPad, internet, cable, car(s) etc etc. Our example of poor is much different than the world's example of poor.

So let's think about this... no tax on food, 10% on products and 20% on products that are considered excessive like, as example, 10% on cars up to 30k but over that there is a 20% tax.

I would like to see a flat tax on corporations too. That would make it all so simple and clear as to what should and is paid.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Here's a thought: instead of trying to unfairly up the tax percentage for those "mean rich people" how about taxing the illegal aliens in this country? Are you kidding me? My tax dollars, as everyone's, funds welfare and we all know that lots (not all) but lots of illegals are currently benefiting in some way from our welfare system, without paying a dime in taxes. Um...why is that? Cause it would be mean to tax a person who is living in this country and taking jobs away from its citizens while living off food stamps and ADC? And I love the "force them to feed the starving" statement. Seriously? You wouldn't be talking about LEGISLATING MORALITY would you? This, from the same people who scream about taking the word "God" off of the money....give me a break.

Police officers, firefighters, civil service workers are being laid off in record numbers due to the rich getting their tax breaks. How is this right?

We can't finance infrastructure that will provide permanent jobs, school budgets getting slashed at a record rate yet people see nothing the matter with this?

The "Tax Breaks Creates Jobs" is a myth that they've been perpetuating for the last 35 years and not a damn thing has changed. The lie of "Don't tax the job creators" is a myth.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The idea is not tax the hell out of the billionares, but figure out where the money went and get it.

Exactly. People mistakenly believe taxing the rich is punitive.

It isn't punishment, it is simply a logistical part of capitalism.

When people have such a massive percentage of the overall income, of course they are going to have to pay a larger percentage of the taxes.

What I find interesting and a big part of the problem is that the lower 60% or so have a flat income of over 20 plus years where the rich doubled. Well that is about right with inflation with 1 million 20 years ago is equal to 2 million today. The 80% guys about doubled too and that is healthy, but all below are flat so they have about 1/2 the buying power that they did 20 years ago.

Interesting not that is all....

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Police officers, firefighters, civil service workers are being laid off in record numbers due to the rich getting their tax breaks. How is this right?

I really don't understand this, and I'm not sure what you are saying. A city can't pay its workers so its the rich fault? Most taxes that pay for them is sales, maybe a city tax, property tax, business tax with some state tax. Here in Washington we have no state tax, so please tell me how are the rich getting out of taxes that would pay for civil service workers?

In many cities with a large number of welfare (Detroit as example) you have a large number of people who only take from the system, and that is why many cities are failing.

Please explain this a little more so I can understand where you are coming from.

Thanks

reply to post by Xtrozero


Property taxes and court revenues go towards financing new equipment and infrastructure enhancements. They pay for things like garbage trucks, fire trucks, police cars, dump trucks. JC bought when we got some Homeland Security money a half dozen new fire rigs and we donated and gave a couple of decommissioned rigs to volunteer departments in Bergen and Passaic Counties!

Corporate construction jobs pay for salaries and whatnot.

Look at a city like Detroit whose 2010 unemployment rate was just under 30%. When that tax revenue isn't coming in of course civil services suffer.

When your city takes in say $10 Million a month and your payouts and commitments are $12.5 a year you will have shortfalls If it weren't for something called "Pay To Play" that makes a company buy it's tax ebatement period Jersey City, NJ would be considerably worse off predicament today then it is.

Lack of state money also hinders what a city or a county can and cannot do.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Billionaires buy our governments, foment our wars, and fund terrorism.

then perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond / lake / sea of madness ...
India

India, presently with exactly 55 "dollar-billionaires" (individuals with a total net worth of one billion dollars and above), accounts for roughly 4.5% of the global total of 1210 billionaires across the six continents.

China
Japan
Taiwan

Their total wealth of $92.7 billion crushed the previous record of $77 billion in 2008.

Russia
America

and these people are ALL over the WORLD, not just in America.
i sure don't understand what is your big beef with billionaire Americans ... talk about misdirection.

Capping wealth will have zero adverse effects and many good ones.

link please -- any verified proof of such a claim?
taking too much Vitamin C has adverse effects.
balance cannot exist without adverse effects soooo, how about some evidence to back up your nonsense.

Capping wealth doesn't limit anyone's choices in any demonstrably real way.

again, just spouting fantasy or can you provide facts?

As I've pointed out before, alluding to an eventual ten-dollar cap on wealth is a strawman argument.

actually, this strawman has historical precedent ... see the Fed Reserve for examples.
any cap on individual rights born to every human is UNAmerican.
wildlife caps imposed on individuals are still the CHOICE of the individual to honor (many go unabated) ~~ and, since laws are made to be broken, why do you want to add to the package?

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Police officers, firefighters, civil service workers are being laid off in record numbers due to the rich getting their tax breaks. How is this right?

it is wrong and so are you.
civil services are not provided by the "rich" or their tax breaks.

Detroit is devoid of homeowners ... you know, tax payers whose $$ do provide those civil services.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Point being that there has been 'redistribution of wealth' UPWARD for over 10 years. Water that is pumped up and out - and never returns to the tank eventually leaves the tank dry.. And by now the tank of the poors and middles is damn near dry..while making the rich are floating. This mass theft has imbalanced the system.

Even criminals 'work hard' at theft and fraud - to your way of thinking they deserve to keep the money not be jailed.

It's not about a re-distribution of wealth, it's about a STOP to BEING ROBBED.


YOUR POST
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I'm having a hard time here understanding the mentality of people. Most of my posts are long on here, but I am going to try to make this as short as I can so that people can enlighten myself (and others) as to their thinking.

I hear many people on ATS, around the globe, and in the Occupy Wall Street movements advocate more taxes for the rich and some even go so far as to say a "redistribution of wealth". I struggle to find where the belief in this comes from. Does it only come from people who don't have wealth or is it more wide spread?

Why should the rich be charged any more in taxes, simply because they make more money?
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MY ANSWER

The 1% are taking our money through means that they have been granted, mostly behind closed doors, and have benefited through laws and de-regulations to where they act with impunity, just like this FDIC covering their loans to insolvant banks in Europe, which will default and cause the FDIC insurance to cover losses, which will in Turn.... be taken from every tax paying Citizen in the USA who pays taxes. The Fed Will Print Money out of Thin Air to pay this debt further worsening the Global depression. It's not about taxing the wealthy, because unless you are a multi millionare, your just a small potato. It's about the 1% that are manipulating the money, polititions, President, Congress and Corperations. However, the rich have benefitted by the good ol boys in politics to the point their assets are protected, while the small poor citizen is robbed by taxing to pay and fund the 1%er's proj ects. They are to blame too, and do you think for a minute they care about the working class? you can bet not...!!! As long as their stash is secure. Well I got news for them, no-one's safe. The 1%er's will bankrupt us in a heartbeat if they think they will benefit. As the world starves, they will live excessivly lavish lives.... So that is what has a thorn in all our sides, to answer your question.....

reply to post by Honor93


You didn't notice I called for a global cap on wealth? I live in the US, so that's where I focus first. In any case I'm not sure what your point about Indian billionaires is.

Capping wealth harms no one, not even the billionaires, save only in their ego. Releasing their excessive wealth back into the global economy will obviously do wonders for it in a myriad of ways: better wages, more infrastructure built, more solutions implemented that are currently hanging fire due to lack of funds, more research...the list is endless.

Explain how someones choices are restricted because they have merely $1 billion as opposed to $10 billion. I see no limit on what they can reasonably do, save buy governments and foment wars.

I'm glad to see you support abortion, gay marriage, polygamy, and public nudity as individual rights, and are against drug laws, against mandatory car insurance, and speed limits as they are all infringements upon individual rights.

Oh, sorry, you weren't talking about those individual rights, just the money ones.

reply to post by kirkulator


I misstated myself. I mean I don't think it is fair that the rich pay a higher percentage than others. I believe the percentage should be even all across.

However, I am starting to dislike a flat tax on income the more I hear about it. I have always been against income tax anyway, but whatever tax is done to make it work - it should be fair and based of consumption rather than income.


reply to post by lazydaisy67


No need to get me started on the illegals. They are doing plenty of harm for this country, but the sad fact is if even they were to pay taxes, there is the matter of accounting for all of them.

Originally posted by type0civ

Your statements baffle me. Your ok with using tax as a penalty to discourage us from success it seems. Do you really think the govt has a legitimate need for our money? National defense, infrastructure and so on is fine. But if you look at the creation of certain govt departments and our spending on things like mosquito nets in Central Africa, you can start to see what an utter failure those have been.

Not sure what's baffling about it. I was merely pointing out that a flat tax helps the rich and hurts the poor. The only way it wouldn't help the rich would be to raise everyone's tax bracket to 35% . that would hurt everyone but the rich so it won't fly.

Originally posted by type0civ
I recall reading that to obtain a corp charter to operate in the US, you had to demonstrate that WE would benefit from that activity, product or whatever it may be. Good, moral, ethical business practices....what happened?

All that is needed to set up a corporation in the US is a purpose that must entail a means of making money. This means you cannot incorporate for the sole purpose of hiding assets or income. When you set up the corporation, you state the business you are in (retail, legal services, escort service, whatever). I'm sure folks set up corporations as a means of sheltering income, hiding assets etc but the stated reason is a means of making money doing something. Nowhere does it say the entity must benefit all.

All this back and forth, share the wealth, us VS> them, rich VS> poor, it all plays into their hands. Ever heard the term "divide and conquer"? That's what they are doing. TPTB know that if we were to stop watching the idiot box, quit believing everything books tell us and actually THINK for ourselves, they would not be in power.

Think about this...next time a commercial comes on, analyze it. What is it telling you? You'll find the majority of them are telling you that you are a nobody, a loser unless you buy their product. They tell you you NEED this product. Even Toyota has stooped so low as to have a kid telling adults they are lame for not buying the new Highlander!

I'm not a tree hugger, or a liberal, or a conservative. I am me. I think for myself. I analyze the data and form my own opinions. I watched the Zeitgeist movie, and while some of it I knew about, some I speculated about and others were an eye opener, I think the movement is nothing more than regurgitated hippie commune living from the 60's.

So why not stop believing the propaganda, stop believing the us VS them paradigm? Use your head, use common sense, think for yourself. Quit being steered like cattle to the slaughter. Use your brain and look out for number one. You can change the world, but you must use your head for more than just a video recorder!

reply to post by gwydionblack


I think the biggest beef people who advocate "wealth redistribution" is that the money was either:

a. not gotten through legal gains, as outlined by the people who founded our country.
b. barely legal through the manipulation and coercion of the government though the use of cash, thus allowing them to make more cash and ply more influence...creating or contributing to the political death spiral we find today.

Since the money is already in their possession, that leaves two options. More heavily tax those who get obscenely wealthy based on the rules of a system in order to improve said system for all players, or take it from them by force. One is the basis for failed socialism, one is something we've done in this country for decades, and only recently abandoned.

Top it off with this: You made a choice not to follow a career path with obscene monetary rewards. You had a choice. Most people just starting today, even those who in years past would have had the gates flung wide open for them, do not have that choice.

It's easy to say "I don't get them," and there are valid arguments against their precepts and their tactics. But, simply stating that everyone made a choice is patently false...and to argue that the system in it's current iteration is just fine, well, I can't imagine what that argument might look like.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by RealAmericanPatriot

 

Personally, I think the goverment should also add a corporate payroll tax so that, any employee that receives a bonus that is at least 50% of their annual salary, results in a corporate tax that charges an additional amount based on the overage. It might result in corporations paying smaller bonuses. Excessive salary taxes should also be added. A CEO doesn't need to make $50,000,000 a year or more. It's nonsensical and that money could be used for other things, or distributed to shareholders.

I agree with you on the CEO point. But i believe that this money should be distributed evenly to all the people that works in that business. From the toilet cleaner to the highest director.

Peace out.

reply to post by Jiggyfly


Socialism is not what people should aim for, rather just making equal opportunity for all.

reply to post by thejlxc


The Federal Reserve has caused much of our issues, you can't deny that.

Edit: Double post

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Actually tax should be a flat tax, the constitution only alows for a flat tax because it must be equally carried by all citizens.