Interesting reading- the 'rooms' (per TomSawyer) tale for the tree being a drug bites good. The Kabbalah stuff- well, to each their own.

While I've found it interesting I didn't buy the ticket.

Kabbalah is an aspect of Jewish mysticism. It consists of a large body of speculation on the nature of divinity, the creation, the origin and fate of the soul, and the role of human beings, written and oral.

This is like so much that is written about what one religion is and what it is not- speculation.


The story of "the garden" can be as complex as anyone makes it. It can also be simple.

From the beginning, the stories that eventually became the Bible twist and turn. Interpretations and interjections have flowed into and out of it. By the time written Bibles were produced for "the masses" I fully suspect much tweaking had occurred.

While the King James version is just that, a version, it is fairly easy to read even hundreds of years after the fact and many changes in language. Whatever “the tree” really was, the representation should be clearly understood. Any meaning or arcane slant placed upon this is purely an invention of the presenter.

I prefer written claims to LAW or rule as to verbal ones because of the permanency. Anything that relies upon oral tradition has only the substance, memory and worth of the teller. Writing things pretty much locks them in- change has to be admitted and usually explained. Verbal- well someone can always claim misinterpretation or change in mind. Witnesses to crimes are proof positive to memory becoming convenient.


I believe there is an on-going conspiracy regarding the Bible- much of it is accidental or even subconscious but none the less real.

Can it be that we should 'stupify' ourselves?

You must understand that this is what the early church wanted. It was a tool of control, and that control was easier with uneducated masses. This is why all learning was done through the church. You even see it today in some degree, as the largest percentage of private schools are religious in nature...

The church did however, get rather clever, and change the "Tree of Knowledge" (as in older Bibles) to the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil", to steer you away from the above conclusion....

Originally posted by Gazrok

Can it be that we should 'stupify' ourselves?

You must understand that this is what the early church wanted. It was a tool of control, and that control was easier with uneducated masses. This is why all learning was done through the church. You even see it today in some degree, as the largest percentage of private schools are religious in nature...

Now that makes sense. I agree with some of that, but I still think that somewhere, our desire for knowledge is part of man's downfall.

While the control part is so true, it would not be if all of man was without knowledge - including the leaders.

True, but we'd also be dying before 30 of (now) easily curable ailments, and flinging poo at each other....

Personally, I'll take the knowledge please...

Imagine yourselves just off the assembly line.
The first people God ever made. (You really think life existed forever?) like when do you think the first cell originated? how?

Now that being said, there a whole world of things we have no clue about.
The apple represents knowledge, yes... but being more specific you might understand the bible more correctly

"They" Stole the Knowledge of Right and Wrong
instead of being patient and being taught, we decided to decide what was right and wrong on our own, without realizing everything just .is. it isn't right or wrong.. it just .is.
Oh yeh, God formed us out of the cells in mud. he used that as his "plasticene" which makes sense if you look up some scientific stuff on mud.

[edit on 1/9/04 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by dnero6911
"They" Stole the Knowledge of Right and Wrong
instead of being patient and being taught, we decided to decide what was right and wrong on our own, without realizing everything just .is. it isn't right or wrong.. it just .is.
Oh yeh, God formed us out of the cells in mud. he used that as his "plasticene" which makes sense if you look up some scientific stuff on mud.

They were tricked into taking the fruit - they didn't steal.
And the god made us from dust - not mud.

Originally posted by TomSawyer
Many of these chemicals are considered poisonous. So maybe that is why they were forbidden to eat it. Maybe God was suppossed to be "the other person in the room", in case they had a "bad trip".
Tom Sawyer

well technically anything u ingest is a poison as ur body has to break it down and the only thing not considered is water, and the body is mostly made up of this around 80 % if this has any relevence

find the word apple in genesis. the word is fruit. 06529 in the strongs. (getting this from blueletterbible.org)
1) fruit
a) fruit, produce (of the ground)
b) fruit, offspring, children, progeny (of the womb)
c) fruit (of actions) (fig.)
Authorized Version (KJV)

the root 06509
1) to bear fruit, be fruitful, branch off
a) (Qal) to bear fruit, be fruitful
b) (Hiphil)

further take the word serpent back to its roots and it means , to practice divination or observe signs. Which is also what the words darkness and night mean in the bible. so the lesser light that rules the night.....


1) to cause to bear fruit
2) to make fruitful
3) to show fruitfulness, bear fruit

so it could mean eve ate fruit, or that she carried on the works of good and evil , or that she was impregnated with evil.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by dnero6911
"They" Stole the Knowledge of Right and Wrong
instead of being patient and being taught, we decided to decide what was right and wrong on our own, without realizing everything just .is. it isn't right or wrong.. it just .is.
Oh yeh, God formed us out of the cells in mud. he used that as his "plasticene" which makes sense if you look up some scientific stuff on mud.

They were tricked into taking the fruit - they didn't steal.
And the god made us from dust - not mud.

Yes, sure they were tricked... but by who? Satan? you ever seen him?
Well I can see him in people all the time, ignorance, confusion, judgement...
It was themselves who tricked themselves into "stealing" it
We stole the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil
Good and Evil, or all things that have come out of the ground, or things of the ground. We decided WE knew what was good or bad instead of letting God let us know which it was.

Originally posted by godservant
I don't take the bible litterally. Many say that God isn't, because the creation story is immpossible. They may be right - well, about the creation story.

What if there really isn't an Adam and Even, nor a tree, nor a snake? What if the apple is just knowledge?

Then Adam would symbolize man, Eve woman, and their desire for knowledge would be the sin that God warned them (us) about. It would mean that pictures of Adam and Eve that we grew up with led most to think of it too literally.

Can it be that we should 'stupify' ourselves? Do we think too much and learn too much for our own good? Does todays society make it too hard to simplify our lives? Wasn't today's technology supposed to simplify things?


Just wonderin'.

For what it's worth, I think that the Devil tempted a female spiritual energy
entity (Eve) into eating from the apple ( becoming mortal, gaining knowledge and experiencing emotions ) so that he could trap them
(for surely it's male counterpart Adam would surely follow) into
having his way with them.

Now, we are trapped in this dimension until we "die" to experience
and grow emotionally and spiritually so that we can earn our way back
to immortality.

Originally posted by dnero6911

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by dnero6911
"They" Stole the Knowledge of Right and Wrong
instead of being patient and being taught, we decided to decide what was right and wrong on our own, without realizing everything just .is. it isn't right or wrong.. it just .is.
Oh yeh, God formed us out of the cells in mud. he used that as his "plasticene" which makes sense if you look up some scientific stuff on mud.

They were tricked into taking the fruit - they didn't steal.
And the god made us from dust - not mud.

Yes, sure they were tricked... but by who? Satan? you ever seen him?

What a stupid comment. Have you ever seen the fruit that the story refers to?
Treating the Tree of Knowledge as factual and then stating Satan doesn't exist is crass. The whole Biblical story is created to allegorise Satan's relationship with mankind. You can't pick and choose which bits you want to be true.

As I've already stated - it's a symbolic story. It's based on an older Babylonian legend as many things in the Bible are.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by dnero6911

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by dnero6911
"They" Stole the Knowledge of Right and Wrong
instead of being patient and being taught, we decided to decide what was right and wrong on our own, without realizing everything just .is. it isn't right or wrong.. it just .is.
Oh yeh, God formed us out of the cells in mud. he used that as his "plasticene" which makes sense if you look up some scientific stuff on mud.

They were tricked into taking the fruit - they didn't steal.
And the god made us from dust - not mud.

Yes, sure they were tricked... but by who? Satan? you ever seen him?

What a stupid comment. Have you ever seen the fruit that the story refers to?
Treating the Tree of Knowledge as factual and then stating Satan doesn't exist is crass. The whole Biblical story is created to allegorise Satan's relationship with mankind. You can't pick and choose which bits you want to be true.

As I've already stated - it's a symbolic story. It's based on an older Babylonian legend as many things in the Bible are.

Oh wow your so right, I should rethink everything..... Right

I know its symbolistic, it symbolizes something human, not that bs crackpots thought up years ago, myths are myths, God uses stupid people to tell smarter people whats really going on, and he lets those imbeciles go off on different tangents, because what is to come is to come, and nothing can stop it, but those people who actually learn something along the way are that much better off, and will find happiness among all this hatred and evil.
And I don't just pick out pieces that I believe to be true, sorry... I may just have a different perception than you.

and i know it allegorises something, thats what I'm saying

[edit on 3/9/04 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by dnero6911
God uses stupid people to tell smarter people whats really going on

oh man....somthing about this statment had me rollin on the floor...hehe, i love it

I think the Adam & Eve story is highly allegorical.

I haven't believed in it since I was a child at Sunday school, and asked too many questions.

later a rainbow was in the sky for rememberance. Mushies, etc grow after light showers. like with a rainbow in the sky.

Maybe Adam and Eve had not reached the age to have from the tree. The tree wouldn't have been there for no reason.

God also Placed a sword over the tree of life. And some things are still illeagally found everywhere.

Never ending battle going down the ages forever????

Personally I think legalizing smokes, etc would make it lose the controversy, debate, publicity, etc and it would probably have been lost over time.

Beside if you tell your kid not to do something, What do you think he would do. I think God had some higher objectives.

Unfortunately the Guilty feeling (Sin) came on Adam and Eve and they couldn't face God. And Jesus came and said Don't Judge and you won't be Judged to clear our Guilts (Sin)