Apple of knowledge

I don't take the bible litterally. Many say that God isn't, because the creation story is immpossible. They may be right - well, about the creation story.

What if there really isn't an Adam and Even, nor a tree, nor a snake? What if the apple is just knowledge?

Then Adam would symbolize man, Eve woman, and their desire for knowledge would be the sin that God warned them (us) about. It would mean that pictures of Adam and Eve that we grew up with led most to think of it too literally.

Can it be that we should 'stupify' ourselves? Do we think too much and learn too much for our own good? Does todays society make it too hard to simplify our lives? Wasn't today's technology supposed to simplify things?


Just wonderin'.

im not religious in any way, but i always interpreted the story of adam and eve to mean that man was tempted by knowledge, and understanding (the fruit from the tree of knowledge), and once they persued it, they lost there ignorance, and in turn where cast from paridise...

ignorance is bliss after all...

sort of the ultimate deny ignorance story no?

[edit on 29-8-2004 by Urn]

I've always thought the 'fruit' of the tree of knowlege of good and evil is 'words'.
You know how you think in silent visual imagery as opposed to when your mind is chewed up with little word thoughts [internal dialogue].

Not that one should probably reject either out of hand.

thoughts, opinions?
.

What if it (taking of the tree of knowledge or good and evil) was none of these things?

What if it was something simple and sublime. Something a child could grasp.

What if God gave everything but one little thing to man and told man he (God) trusted man not to take this?

was there a conspiracy

www.gnosis-usa.com...




[edit on 12-9-2004 by Tamahu]

I have thought perhaps God had no intention of Adam and Eve staying in the Garden of Eden. He either conciously or unconciously wanted them to grow through the experience and become more than "happy mindless imps". Part of what makes a child/individual grow (up) is when they go it on their own. Sometimes they crash and burn, but if they survive they know and understand more about the world around themselves. Some things must be learned from experience, there is no other way.
.

Originally posted by slank
I have thought perhaps God had no intention of Adam and Eve staying in the Garden of Eden. He either conciously or unconciously wanted them to grow through the experience and become more than "happy mindless imps". Part of what makes a child/individual grow (up) is when they go it on their own. Sometimes they crash and burn, but if they survive they know and understand more about the world around themselves. Some things must be learned from experience, there is no other way.
.

Where did you get the 'concept' that they were intended to be mindless imps?

God left them alone-

I don't know if you have children or not, but- no parent wants their children to:

disobey or
to do something that could cause their death.

If you were a parent and one of your children deliberately did something that could cause them to die would you be pleased?

Too many people seem to have an idea that "the tree" was no big deal.

I like Rosary pea plants but I don't have them around. I REALLY like them- I also have grandchildren ages 2 to 14. I wouldn't trust any of them with the plant. It is an enchanting plant- adults have a hard time keeping their hands off it dispite warnings. Read the page regarding the dose it takes of this lovely thing then think what "the tree" may have been.

What did God tell Adam would happen to him IF he (Adam) ate of the tree?

I don't think it was a real plant. The tree of knowledge isn't something we grow with a bag of miracle-grow.

God didn't want us to get caught up in the stresses that knowledge brings. Look at the animals in the wild - they are happy with thier simple life.

The old testament tells that as long as Adam & Eve obeyed and stayed at a servitude level, all things would be provided for them. there was certain knowledge they were not to try and obtain. Those forbidden forms of knowledge are symbolized in the story as as two trees, the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. The "Tree of Knowledge" well ever notice how throughout the bible the word "knowing" is used for sexual activity; and Adam "knew" his wife Eve and begat....man was not originally meant to procreate (I can hear you saying, "oh no the bible says"....I KNOW what the current version of the bible says)! The "Tree Of Life" represents the spiritual side. Human kind was also not meant to achieve the spirituality of his creator, the immortality of reincarnation of the spirit:

"And the lord said, Look, the man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil: and now, what if he put forth his hand, and takes also from the Tree Of Life, and eats, and lives forever?"

Genesis 3:22

technology makes aspects of our lifes Easier it dosnt solve lifes riddles such as the differnces between men & women (men are from mars women are from venus Im not talking about the Physica differences between the two sexs.) Even without the bible knowdlge=power=new technology. We will always be left with lifes true Riddles.
In a sense the tree of knowdlge is still growing growing new leaves all the time. There is no such thing as good & evil the world isnt as simple a black & white there are shades of grey.
Im not sure if I should have posted this given that I have never read the bible.

My belief is along the same lines of PublicGadfly, with a little different slant. The tree of knowledge in my mind, is the equivelant of our modern day "drugs" like mushrooms. Shamans use "drugs" to obtain higher knowledge. Through eating the plants, your mind opens to the universal truths or hidden knowledge. (Sounds like the tree of knowledge doesn't it?) Man origionally wasn't suppossed to consume these plants filled with the knowledge. Not because they were "bad". But because they had God there, to teach and guide them how to use them, and understand what they learned while using them.

My take is that, the plant was there for a reason. Just as there is a reason for marijuana, shrooms ect. today. Why would God create something that had no purpose? God had intended to use it, at some point in the future. Or else why have it there at all? The reason Adam and Eve weren't suppossed to partake of it. Was because with any higher knowledge that can be gained. It can be used for good or evil purposes. Think about "the force" in Star Wars. It could be used for good or evil. Same concept here. God wanted to ensure that they were used, and the knowledge that was gained was used for good purposes. Not to corrupt man in his infancy. So there was no need for man, to obtain that knowledge on his own, without God's guidance. God was suppossed to teach the higher knowledge to Adam and Eve, so that the knowledge wouldn't be mis-used or abused.

After eating from the tree of knowledge. God kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. He also left man to figure the world out for themselves, without his guidance. I take it as God saying. Alright, I was here with you. I was going to teach you all of these things. But since you aren't going to listen to me, and learn from my teachings. Then you can figure it out for yourselves. And he kicked them out of his protective guidance in Eden, into the real world. This is also one reason I am a strong supporter of "drugs", for spiritual enlightenment. "Drugs" are the key or missing link, to the spiritual wisdom that is needed to fix this world. God left man to figure it out for themselves. So to not use the tree of knowledge now, is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without "drugs", we wouldn't gain the spiritual wisdom or hidden knowledge. Without the spitiual wisdom, we are doomed to keep repeating our errors in a never ending cycle.

If you are stuck in a cycle, and you want to end it, or get out of it. You have to change the pattern in the cycle. In order to change the pattern, you have to apply different methods in the cycle. In order to apply different methods in the cycle, you have to have knowledge of alternative methods. If you keep doing the same things, in the patterns of the cycle. It is naive to expect a different outcome.

Just my opinion,
Tom Sawyer

The apple is used in many ideas,

-Eris and her golden apple leading to the Kidnap of Helen of Troy
-Newton and his realisation of Gravity
-Adam and Eve
-Apple Macintosh

All of these used to represent innovative ideas...

But the reason that the apple may be considerred bad is that it represents growth which inturn represents and knowledge... the gain of knowledge in human kind would lead to its move from innocence.. the more aware of ourselves and the more information we retain, the less innocent we are..

Just a thought though..probably babbleing...

apologies


"If you think before you speak the other guy gets his joke in first....."

Originally posted by TomSawyer
My take is that, the plant was there for a reason. Just as there is a reason for marijuana, shrooms ect. today. Why would God create something that had no purpose? God had intended to use it, at some point in the future. Or else why have it there at all?

Interesting is that. While I agree with marijuana and maybe payote as being a key to better thinking, I somehow can't see the tree of knowledge having big purple buds hanging from it.

Nice thought though.

.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Tamahu]

GodServant,

Just to clarify, I am not suggesting that "the tree of knowledge" was refering to actual mushrooms, or marijuana etc.. I am suggesting that "the tree of knowledge" had similar chemical characteristics to that of mushrooms etc.. You can experience altered states of reality, from many different forms of plants. These altered states bring new insights on life or knowledge. It's hidden knowledge, because you wouldn't know it was even there, unless you consume the plant. It even says in Genesis that Adam and Eve obtained that knowledge, after consuming the plant. Which is why they knew they were naked, and hid from God.

So in my mind, it isn't too far fetched, that the tree of knowledge had similar characteristics or capabilities, to that of shrooms, and peyote etc.. Many of these chemicals are considered poisonous. So maybe that is why they were forbidden to eat it. Maybe God was suppossed to be "the other person in the room", in case they had a "bad trip". Who knows, but if you look at the story with an open mind. There is a distinct parallel between the tree of knowledge and it's capabilities. With todays shrooms, peyote etc..

Tom Sawyer

Originally posted by Tamahu

www.gnosis-usa.com...

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Tamahu]

I understand. I was just kidding. Reading your post made think of Adam walking up on the tree and telling Eve "Dude, don't bogart!"

Sorry.

Ha ha,
I understand now, and yes that does paint a funny picture! No need to appologize, I'm the one who need to grow a sense of humor. If for nothing else, so I can recognize it in others!

Take Care,
Tom

I don't believe that we're talking about an actual, physical tree here - either hallucinagenic or otherwise!!

I believe that the story in Genesis is symbolic.

The tree was called the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". I believe that the fruit was symbolic of Freewill.

Before eating the fruit, God provided everything for Adam and Eve. They didn't question or wonder.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
This would seem to indicate that God was saying "Stay away from the tree and your innocence will keep you safe, but once you know good and evil, you will have to choose. And you will probably choose wrongly!!!"


We also have to remember that Adam and Eve were tricked, ie: "beguiled" into eating the fruit.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

To me, "knowing good and evil" indicates choice. The choice to follow either path.

Originally posted by TomSawyer
Just to clarify, I am not suggesting that "the tree of knowledge" was refering to actual mushrooms, or marijuana etc.. I am suggesting that "the tree of knowledge" had similar chemical characteristics to that of mushrooms etc.. You can experience altered states of reality, from many different forms of plants. These altered states bring new insights on life or knowledge. It's hidden knowledge, because you wouldn't know it was even there, unless you consume the plant. It even says in Genesis that Adam and Eve obtained that knowledge, after consuming the plant. Which is why they knew they were naked, and hid from God.
Tom Sawyer

Tom,

I think what you are talking about is referred to as the entheogenic interpretation of the bible, which centers around the proper ingestion of plants to enable spiritual awakening. I'm not necessarily favoring the entheogenic interpretation to the gnostic/alchemical/tantric suggested by tamahu, (how could I ever choose between drugs and sex), however, check out the presentation offered at this site.

Perhaps you might find it as mind blowing as I did.