Giant Kraken Lair Discovered

reply to post by Attrei


Well it was a enormous squid so I'm actually not that surprised by it's intelligence. A lot of people have theorized that after humans squids will be the next to get their shot.

reply to post by bphi1908


Thank you for the update! I appreciate that.....Yes it seems like this story is on pretty flimsy legs. Shame, too....I'd love for there to be real credible evidence for an incredibly intelligent and impossibly large squid from time past.

I wouldn't be surprised if some day evidence does come to light about a squid from prehistoric times that was much larger than the biggest giant squids of today....I mean, come on...even Dragonfly's had two foot wingspans back in prehistory! .....None the less the evidence presented for such a thing this time, seems to be based on nothing but wild speculation and oddly placed plesiosaur bones.

I suppose the story has made the rounds so much, simply because it's a somewhat plausible idea. It's just that the evidence given for it, (the speculation about the oddly placed plesiosaur bones) is much less plausible than that which it's being used to prove. And that's never a good sign!

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Attrei

 

I saw this article as well, very interesting. I don't think the scientists involved will win too many friends calling this the kraken, after all this creature lived millions of years ago, far too long ago to have been the inspiration for the kraken legend. There are other animals far more likely to have inspired the legends, such as the giant squid.

edit on 13-10-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

So, the coelacanth is not likely to be alive anymore today, right?

and I'm gonna hug him and pet him and name him Cthulhu

I would love to visit the past and see all the weird wonderful ex creatures of yore. I have a feeling that I wouldn't make it back to my own time though

reply to post by dtrock78


How about this for something big. Back in the 50s our school teacher told us how gigantic Whales could often be seen carrying scars and here's why;

news.nationalgeographic.com...

60 foot squid

reply to post by Attrei

oh, Attrei, how much do I love this story? Let me count the ways...

First of all - giant prehistoric octopus and giant prehistoric dolphin/whale–like creatures – if only one of them is real – still cool (one of them is real)


2nd - giant octopus that kill, eat and then arrange the bones: very cool

But, seriously - an entire theory about giant octopus that make art out of the bones of the critters they have eaten – who does that?

I don’t care if he is crazy – I love this guy :-)

and look – it’s for real science:

The proposed Triassic kraken, which could have been the most intelligent invertebrate ever, arranged the vertebral discs in biserial patterns, with individual pieces nesting in a fitted fashion as if they were part of a puzzle. The arranged vertebrae resemble the pattern of sucker discs on a cephalopod tentacle, with each amphicoelous vertebra strongly resembling a coleoid sucker. Thus the tessellated vertebral disc pavement may represent the earliest known self‑portrait. The submarine contest between cephalopods and seagoing tetrapods has a long history. A Triassic kraken would have posed a deadly risk for shonisaurs as they dove in pursuit of their smaller cephalopod prey.

gsa.confex.com...

Kraken sea monster found? Researcher is mocked for theory

Paleontologist Mark McMenamin knew he would face lots of skepticism when he presented an admittedly outrageous theory this week at a geologists convention.

latimesblogs.latimes.com...
However - he presents it anyway. Reputation be damned :-)

His theory involves fossils found at Berlin-Ichthyosaur State Park in Nevada that have long perplexed experts. The size of a school bus, the fossils are believed to be the remains of ichthyosaurs, ancient reptiles akin to today's sperm whales. But how did they get there? Further, the remains seemed to be arranged in an appealing geometric pattern, almost like a work of art. Who or what would have done that, and more important, why?

...McMenamin believes that the remains are not just serendipitous; he believes that they were intentionally arranged to mirror the suckers running up and down and the sea monster's tentacles.

In other words, this could be the world's first self-portrait, and a sign of just how clever and self-aware these Kraken-like sea creatures could be...

...McMenamin says he's not the least bit offended. Such skepticism and batting around of theories is an integral part of the scientific process. He says his theory can stand up to it all.

"We were expecting a very skeptical response to this, and rightly so. It is a kind of bold theory," he said.

The key to the site, he said, "is the double row pattern" of fossils arranged in a deliberate fashion. The remains from one or more animals were sorted for size and arranged from smallest to largest, not unlike that distinctive pattern on an octopus' tentacle.

"There is a puzzle piece fit to it," he said. "I cannot conceive of a physical process that would do it, it's some kind of intentional process," he said. And it's not a prank, either, because the excavation of the site, which has been well documented and photographed, has puzzled experts from the beginning.

It’s not like he didn’t think about it first :-)

And he has his reasons:

Once he understood what to look for, he realized octopuses were all around. They’re so well-camouflaged, he said, it is best to look not for the animal, but for their dens. They often collect bits of marine debris — broken glass, tiles, and other hard substances — and put them out front.

news.harvard.edu...

"Once we saw him juggling the hermit crabs in his tank, another time he threw stones against the glass damaging it. And from time to time he completely re-arranges his tank to make it suit his own taste better - much to the distress of his fellow tank inhabitants."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Last week they awarded the Nobel Prize to a scientist that had initially been ostracized by his peers...so, no guts, no glory I guess

Love this story - and the best part? We’ll probably never know for sure...

Originally posted by UnrelentingLurker
wow that sure is odd.

id hate to run into one in a dark ally somewhere at the bottem of the ocean.

No, they would not get you because that Greek guy would have to say in a very Liam Neeson voice, "Release the kraken". So you are ok, unless of course Poseidon has the power to release it. But Poseidon has been busy lately with hurricanes, so you probably would be ok. But in the event you are at the bottom of the sea, make sure you take Hercules along with you.

Is this the same kind of kraken from 20,000 Leagues Beneath the Sea?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


So is the kraken kind of like one of those obsessive-compulsive creatures, like "Queer Kraken for The Straight Octopus"? (making a play on the television show for those who don't realize it).

reply to post by WarminIndy


lol! and, who knows?

that last story in my post - about the octopus rearranging his tank? He also took out a light that was annoying him - I understand this is all anthropomorphizing, but I do like wondering about it all

animals that make tools is so yesterday - animals that make art is one of my favorite things

Originally posted by abeverage
It organized the bones? IT ORGANIZED THE BONES???

Yipes!

could be a pervatasaurus

Originally posted by Attrei
What I mean by Non-Human intelligences is ones that have equivalent or near equivalent perhaps even greater intelligence to Humanity. If the Kraken was capable of making a self-portrait that makes it much more intelligent than any other creature we have discovered so far.

This is really interesting! after all there are thousands and thousands of species still to be discovered, and people used to say there was no such thing as a giant squid, or gorrilas in africa!!!

Well, it's actually reasonable enough all things considered. This planet has been here for 4 billion years; we've only been here a couple hundred thousand at the very most. To think that we're the only form of possibly-sentient life to evolve would be rather narrow-minded and silly if you ask me.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by Attrei
What I mean by Non-Human intelligences is ones that have equivalent or near equivalent perhaps even greater intelligence to Humanity. If the Kraken was capable of making a self-portrait that makes it much more intelligent than any other creature we have discovered so far.

As much as I was wowed by that it has made me feel a little sad. These elephants should not be painting for stupid tourists and human money. Also though I think they are intelligent I am slightly suspicious about this place where elephants are doing paintings. I’m think they have been trained to draw or copy an example but I'm not so sure they are aware of the painting and I highly doubt they would attempt this without some form of training.

Also as for the "portrait", It’s not a particularly complex or unnatural formation. Could it not of formed from sea currents or perhaps it was stored between rocks or coral? I guess if it is real it might be a way of marking territory or something. Considering we were doing cave art in a very primitive stage then it is possible other animals are capable as well I guess.

I have seen carcasses of giant squid when I visited the Smithsonian Institute, they had several specimen on display, one of them so large they had to hang it from the ceiling.

This story actually got me going down a nice research frenzy.

I went from Kraken, to Leviathan, to Hyrdas, then I got into the Gorgons and Medusa (whom has a really odd past which relates closely to the Indian goddess Kali strangely enough), etc.

Just wiki some of those keywords and enjoy the reading.
I spent the last hour looking through it and honestly can't get enough of these topics.

I honestly believe there is something to mythology, and I also think it would be reasonable to assume there could have been a super-sized octopus or squid type creature millions of years ago in the ancient oceans. This is a reasonable speculation.

Like the other folks though, seeing a body or fossil of one would be a great help. It would help hone our speculations into a more realistic outcome.

I saw the title of the thread and was hoping that this was a currently occupied 'lair'.

Cool story, but I was disappointed that it was a lair from millions of years ago.

Originally posted by Attrei
If the Kraken was capable of making a self-portrait that makes it much more intelligent than any other creature we have discovered so far.

Not to downplay your enthusiasm but don't elephants paint themselves (sometimes wonderfully) when given paint, a brush and a canvas?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Beat me to the punch.

The intelligence of squid & the octopus have always interested me:
What is this octopus thinking?

I never had an octopus but iIdid have Koi and catfish in a tank in my house
(yes it was a big tank)

the following story is true
There were four koi and two channel cats living in this tank, the largest fish was a Koi named Alice.One day we decided it would be cool to put marbles in the tank (for beauty) we put white and dark blue marbles in the tank and Alice HATED them ,she was the leader of all the fish, which meant they hated them too.
So Alice went to work and with her koi hoover mouth she rounded up and piled the marbles in a white pile and a dark blue pile. This took a couple of days. We re-scattered the marbles this went on for months, and as the other fish caught up in growth to Alice she taught them to hoover marbles to .
She supervised a chain gang of marble moving fish ,yes the catfish also moved marbles for Alice! The catfish and Koi were one school or pack or whatever you want to call them .They had many more complex nuanced relationships among themselves and with us! I chose the marble moving as the best illustration of behavior that I have seen of aquatic life having complex thinking ,and social organization.

Such a bold theory should have much more in the way of photos and illustrations. A million words can't convey the author's point nearly as well as a clear illustration of the formation and color coding to show what bones came from what animal. The picture supplied gave us no information that would allow anyone to make an informed opinion.