NEWS: Hurricane Frances Makes Landfall!, page 2
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reply posted on 29-8-2004 @ 12:54 PM by Indy
This storm may be historic by the time it has run its course. A dedicated category was opened at www.climatepatrol.com... to archive NHC discussions, NHC advisories, IR satellite images, water vapor images and news articles. Hopefully this will be useful.


reply posted on 29-8-2004 @ 11:27 PM by Indy
I have updated information on the latest forecast models. These are compiled from a number of different sources.

www.climatepatrol.com...

One image does a comparison of five models. I've also included updates on a couple out to 144 to 156 hours and the MRF model. AVN, UKMET and MRF all have the storm going in to Florida. I was unable to locate any runs on BAMM out far enough to determine whether it had the storm going inland in Florida or not. GFDL was farther east and NOGAPS has been all but written off by the NHC due to poor performance.

The development of Hermine will throw a wrench into the works when it comes to forecasting. Will this slow the development of the ridge of high pressure that is forecasted to keep the storm moving west north west? The next 24 to 48 hours should speak volumes.



reply posted on 29-8-2004 @ 11:49 PM by orionthehunter
I'm wondering how prepared the people of say Miami are prepared for a cat 5 hurricane. Would they evacuate the whole city? Here are some links for preparing for a hurricane.

www.dom.com...

www.usatoday.com...

biz.yahoo.com...

I read in one tip to evacuate inland 20 to 50 miles, I think farther than that in Florida would be better. I keep forgetting the one about having lots of cash available since ATM's, credit cards, etc. won't be any good if the power is out for up to 2 weeks or longer.


reply posted on 30-8-2004 @ 12:20 AM by Indy
Good links. Problem with a cat 3+ storm in Florida is you really don't get the benefit of being inland all that much. Florida is very flat and the storms don't lose much intensity as they move across the state. And the big difference between Charley and Frances will be the area of space the hurricane force winds cover.

The eye of the storm is approximately 15 miles across. With Charley the hurricane force winds extended about 15 miles out from the center in all directions. Taking out the eye that leaves an estimated area of 1400 square miles with hurricane force winds (numbers rounded). With Frances the winds extend out much more. They extend 30+ miles in all directions. Using the same formula the area of hurricane force winds is just over 4200 square miles or a difference of 2,800 miles between the storms. The latest NHC predictions has the area growing to 40 miles out from the center of the storm. If that were true that would bring the coverage of hurricane force winds to 6900 square miles compared to 1400 of Charley. Tropical storm force winds in Frances cover approximately 21,000 square miles. It seems like an impossible number. I had to do the simple area of a square to realize the numbers were right.

Remember with a hurricane the really bad winds are confined to an area maybe 5 miles out from the eye. There is a path 25 miles wide (5 + 15 + 5) where destruction is all but guaranteed. Take a drive for 25 miles and imagine everything you see being destroyed. That is the reality that may face someone in 6 days or so.


reply posted on 30-8-2004 @ 01:24 PM by titian
From an e-mail group I belong to (weather buffs, retired mets, etc...):

BTW, Thomas Giella knows his $hit. His past discussion about Charley's turn was quite interesting.

[EDIT] Entire message pasted here so there's no doubts as to its authenticity.[/EDIT]

------------------------------

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. ANOTHER Tropical Storm off Coast of Carolinas?
From: "Jesse Ferrell (WeatherMatrix)" errell@weathermatrix.net>
2. Re: [Weathervine.com] Re: Hurricane Frances
From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF"
3. Unusually Hot/Humid @ WeatherMatrix HQ
From: "Jesse Ferrell (WeatherMatrix)" errell@weathermatrix.net>
4. AccuWeather World Weather Highlights Sunday, Aug 29
From: admin-auto@weathermatrix.net
5. CAT 4 Hurricane Francis
From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF"
6. WeatherAmerica Extreme Wx Headlines For Monday, Aug 30
From: admin-auto@weathermatrix.net


________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:08:29 -0400
From: "Jesse Ferrell (WeatherMatrix)" errell@weathermatrix.net>
Subject: ANOTHER Tropical Storm off Coast of Carolinas?

ttp://www.weathermatrix.net/archive/tropical/atlantic/2152.shtml>

FROM THE NHC:

"SATELLITE IMAGES INDICATE THAT THE LOW PRESSURE AREA LOCATED ABOUT
360 MILES SOUTHEAST OF CAPE HATTERAS NORTH CAROLINA CONTINUES TO
BECOME BETTER ORGANIZED. IF THIS TREND CONTINUES...ADVISORIES WILL
BE INITIATED LATER THIS AFTERNOON. THIS SYSTEM IS MOVING
NORTHWESTWARD NEAR 10 MPH."

Use the satellite images on the Tropical Storm Gaston page to view this
second storm, amazing...
ttp://www.weathermatrix.net/tropical/2004/storm.php3?storm=07>


--
===================================================================
Jesse Ferrell - Meteorologist / Webmaster / Founder - WeatherMatrix
8000 Weather Enthusiasts Can't Be Wrong! www.weathermatrix.net




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:34:29 -0400
From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF"
Subject: Re: [Weathervine.com] Re: Hurricane Frances

Barbara et all,
It looks like Hurricane Frances is undergoing some reorganization as is the norm, so has stopped strengthening for the moment. The cyclone is also wobbling as well as making small heading changes in response to the weather systems to the north. A brief period at a CAT 5 cyclone is still possible.

It's still likely that Frances' eye wall will pass approximately 100 miles north of your location of 18.1 deg N, 63.1 deg. W. And yes you "could" experience some tropical storm force winds, as Frances is a large storm.

BTW, though I still feel at this moment that Frances will turn NW-N and past east of Florida and possibly threaten the Carolina's, right now the south and central Florida peninsula is in danger.

Once again though I add this disclaimer. Confidence in my forecast of tropical cyclone path and intensity is low, as I no longer pay for real time raw weather forecasting products

Take Care,
Thomas F. Giella, KN4LF
Retired Space & Atmospheric Weather Forecaster
Plant City, FL, USA
kn4lf@arrl.net

SWFWMD Rainfall Observer #574
NWS Tampa Bay, FL SKYWARN Observer #HIL-249
CWOP Weather Station #CW2111

KN4LF Daily Solar Space Weather & Geomagnetic Data Archive:
www.kn4lf.com...
Radiowave Propagation eGroup: lists.contesting.com...

----- Original Message -----
From: Barbara
To: weathervine@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: [Weathervine.com] Re: Hurricane Frances



Hi Thomas
thanks for your reply.I enjoy reading your posts and emails.
do you still feel that Frances will pass North of 20N? On another
weatheer site, one of the mets said:
"Along it's current forecast track...Frances will pass to the north of
the islands...but close enough to potentially create tropical storm
conditions there. Tropical Storm watches will likely be issued later
tonight or in the morning...which suggests that there could be some
downed tree branches and as a result a potential loss of power.
Residents with boats should consider securing them at some point.
Should the hurricane deviate just a little south of it's current
track it could still conceivably affect the northern most islands."
would you agree with that?
Now the question is when would we know if there is a deviation south?
and does it look like it has stopped it's NW run and is about to start
a WNW run? It is directly East of us at the 5 PM update.




--- In weathervine@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Giella KN4LF"
wrote:
> Hi Barbara,
> Very nice to hear from you. I have retired from weather
forecasting effective May 01, 2004. As I do not pay for real time raw
weather forecasting data any longer, my forecast accuracy has dropped
from the mid 90% range to the mid 50% range at the 3 days out point on
tropical cyclones.
> In any event I'm pretty confident that Frances will pass north of
the 20 N 63 W and then the Greater Antilles and then turn NW-N through
the T & K's and Bahama's and threaten the Carolina's. However it's
possible before that that Frances will make a bead for Miami and the
Keys before turning away, having scared the heck out of everyone with
a lingering mental Andrew-ism. It's also increasingly likely that
Frances could reach short lived CAT 5 status, as someone on this list
first suggested a couple of days ago.
> Looks like we also have T.S. Hermine east of T.S. Gaston, though
the NHC has not even designated it as a T.D. yet. Gaston may reach CAT
1 status and rake the coastal Carolina's. It could also pull another
Alex by rapidly intensifying. Hermine will stay out to sea possibly
threatening Bermuda. We also still have a homegrown tropical cyclone
threat in the Gulf Of Mexico next week.
> If the NHC designates a T.S. Hermine then we have 8 named storms in
August, probably in the top three historically for activity?! I think
we will probably witness a 2004 hurricane season as busy as in 1995.
> By the way I send these emails out in response to persons with
present queries and persons with past queries. If I send something to
you that you don't want to receive just let me know.
>
> Take Care,
> Thomas F. Giella, KN4LF
> Retired Space & Atmospheric Weather Forecaster
> Plant City, FL, USA
> kn4lf@a...
>
> SWFWMD Rainfall Observer #574
> NWS Tampa Bay, FL SKYWARN Observer #HIL-249
> CWOP Weather Station #CW2111
>
> KN4LF Daily Solar Space Weather & Geomagnetic Data Archive:
www.kn4lf.com...
> Radiowave Propagation eGroup:
lists.contesting.com...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barbara
> To: weathervine@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Weathervine.com] T.S. Frances
>
>
>
> Thomas
>
> the models have been changing so much. Does it still look to you like
> Frances will pass North of the islands? I live in the Northern lesser
> Antilles and, believe me, Frances has everyone worried. I'm at 18.1 N
> and 63.1 W.
> anything you can tell me would be appreciated.
> Thanks
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified virus free by Grisoft AVG 6.0.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (www.grisoft.com...).
> Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004






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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:35:47 -0400
From: "Jesse Ferrell (WeatherMatrix)" errell@weathermatrix.net>
Subject: Unusually Hot/Humid @ WeatherMatrix HQ

My heat index (old formula) surpassed 90 degrees at 10am this morning and
hit 100 at 2:30pm this afternoon before it clouded over. This is unusual
for Central PA in general, but especially so this summer since it has been
so cool. This was our highest Heat Index so far this summer, and the
maximum heat index ever observed at my station (since 2001) was only 108 in
2002.

www.weathermatrix.net...


--
===================================================================
Jesse Ferrell - Meteorologist / Webmaster / Founder - WeatherMatrix
8000 Weather Enthusiasts Can't Be Wrong! www.weathermatrix.net




________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: 29 Aug 2004 23:40:01 -0000
From: admin-auto@weathermatrix.net
Subject: AccuWeather World Weather Highlights Sunday, Aug 29

August 29, 2004 8:34 a.m.

Typhoon Chaba continues to approach the southern parts of the
Japanese mainland as of early Sunday morning, EDT. Though the storm
has crossed near some of the Ryukyu Islands, the storm has not
brought much in the way of strong winds to many of the islands. The
storm was 295 miles south of Sasebo, Japan, and was moving to the
northwest at 12 mph. Winds were sustained at over 115 mph with gusts
of over 145 mph. The storm is forecast to take a more northeastward
track and move over the southern parts of Japan as a weak Typhoon.

Typhoon Songda is continuing to move to the west-northwest at 18
mph as of early Sunday morning, EDT. The storm is currently over open
waters nearly 875 miles east of Saipan. The storm has sustained winds
of 80 mph with gusts of over 95 mph. Songda is forecast to continue
strengthening as it moves north of Guam and into the western Pacific
over the next several days.

Heavy rains indirectly linked to a tropical depression, now
dissipating, soaked Guam Thursday and Friday. A total of 4.4 inches of
rain fell at the international airport on these two days. August,
indeed much of 2004, has been unusually rainy here. As of Sunday, the
total rainfall for the month of August stood at 35.2 inches whereas
August's mean rainfall is 13.6 inches. Through Saturday, nearly 107
inches of rain have fallen here since the start of the year; this is
about 60 inches above average! In June, a record-setting 38 inches of
rain fell.

Tropical Storm Georgette continues to slowly move into the
central Pacific and away from any land. The storm as of early Sunday
morning, EDT, is 730 miles west-southwest of Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.
Winds are sustained at 50 mph with gusts to 65 mph. The storm is
moving west at 13 mph as it is expected to continue on a general
westward track over the next few days as it weakens.

The heat continues for much of Cordoba, Spain, as temperatures
the previous few days have continued to climb to over 100 degrees.
Thursday saw a high temperature of 106 degrees as the average high is
nearly 88 degrees.

Vestmannaeyjar, Iceland had a stormy start to their weekend.
Saturday morning saw moderate rain and winds sustained at 56 mph from
the east.


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30-DAY FREE TRIAL @RADARPLUS.ACCUWEATHER.COM...
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:48:11 -0400
From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF"
Subject: CAT 4 Hurricane Francis


Barbara et all,
Looking at the latest satellite images It looks like Hurricane Frances is beginning to undergo a bit of SW shearing. Also some eyewall restructuring still seems to be occurring, so she remains a CAT 4 cyclone with maybe some slight weakening. SW shear should increase as Frances reaches 60 deg. west longitude through approximately 70 deg. west longitude and this may inhibit strengthening to a CAT 5 in the middle term.

The powerful high pressure ridge to it's north continues to strengthen and build west, the cause of Frances' westerly turn earlier today. Earlier I took the liberty of looking at more modeling and what I see is troublesome. I'm seeing a trend of more models coming into agreement with a continued lower latitude westward track for Frances. If this verifies then any low pressure weakness that "may" be left behind by Hurricane Gaston (yes it was a hurricane when it came ashore in S.C.) and future T.S. Hermine could not pull Frances NW-N east of Florida and/or the T & K and Bahama Islands.

It's still likely though that Frances' eye wall will pass approximately 100 miles north of your location of 18.1 deg N, 63.1 deg. W. And yes you "could" experience some tropical storm force winds, as Frances is a large storm.

But what does a lower latitude more westward track mean if it were to occur? The good news would be a close brush with Puerto Rico, Hispaniola and Cuba. This close brush would continue to inhibit Frances growth to a CAT 5 cyclone, even knock her back to a CAT 3. Also like with CAT 4 Hurricane Charley, speed divergence could pull Frances' eye wall onshore into one of the Great Antilles further disrupting the cyclone. A third option, one of bad news that just makes me shudder! A nightmarish CAT 4 strike to deep South Florida and a WNW-NW movement across the peninsula exiting into the Gulf Of Mexico north of Charlotte Harbor.

Once again though I add this disclaimer. As I've officially retired from weather forecasting, confidence in my forecast of tropical cyclone path and intensity is low, as I no longer pay for real time raw weather forecasting products.

Take Care,
Thomas F. Giella, KN4LF
Retired Space & Atmospheric Weather Forecaster
Plant City, FL, USA
kn4lf@arrl.net

SWFWMD Rainfall Observer #574
NWS Tampa Bay, FL SKYWARN Observer #HIL-249
CWOP Weather Station #CW2111

KN4LF Daily Solar Space Weather & Geomagnetic Data Archive: www.kn4lf.com...
Radiowave Propagation eGroup: lists.contesting.com...




---
Outgoing mail is certified virus free by Grisoft AVG 6.0.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (www.grisoft.com...).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004

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Message: 6
Date: 30 Aug 2004 09:57:01 -0000
From: admin-auto@weathermatrix.net
Subject: WeatherAmerica Extreme Wx Headlines For Monday, Aug 30

-- THIS IS A *SUMMARY ONLY* TO SEE COMPLETE ARTICLE PLEASE SEE BOTTOM OF EMAIL --


HEADLINES:

Gaston Remnants, Advancing Cold Front Create Torrential Rain Scenario For
Much Of Atlantic Coastal Plain; Weakening Of Hurricane Frances Is Only Temporary!
Powerful Storm May Be Nearing Category 5 Intensity Upon Its Approach To
Southeastern U.S. This Weekend


EXPECTED NORTH AMERICA SEVERE OR EXTREME WEATHER NEXT 24 HOURS:


SEVERE WEATHER OUTLOOK
(potential for tornadoes, damaging winds, and large hail within the next 24
hours)



Some Thunderstorms May APPROACH Severe Limits
SE LA....S MS....AL....FL....GA....SC....NC....VA....DC....MD....WV....PA
DE....NJ....NY....CT....RI....MA....VT....NH....QC Eastern Townships

ISOLATED Severe Thunderstorms
(Microbursts, Large Hail, Isolated Tornadoes)
NM....CO....SW KS....OK Panhandle....W TX

ISOLATED Severe Thunderstorms
(Microbursts, Large Hail, Isolated Tornadoes)
BC....AB....C, S SA....S MB


HEAVY RAINFALL OUTLOOK
(potential for an inch or more total rainfall within the next 24 hours)



Scattered Locations In
SE LA....S MS....AL....FL....GA....SC....NC....VA....DC....MD....WV....PA
DE....NJ....NY....CT....RI....MA....VT....NH....QC Eastern Townships
(QPF 1-5")

Isolated Locations In
BC....AB....C, S SA....S MB
(QPF 1-2")

Isolated Locations In
NM....CO....SW KS....OK Panhandle....W TX
(QPF 1-2")
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[edit on 8/30/2004 by titian]

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