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Why men are in trouble
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reply to post by nenothtu
Yes I understand why you would use this frame of reference with your son. I am, however, very concerned when I detect adults using it among other adults and they don't seem to have any real life experiences.
I think you understand this point..instinctively and with knowledge.
Am I to understand that you work the graveyard shift..or at least night shift...perhapsed a 12 hour shift??
I would myself prefer to get back on the graveyard shift. I am not much of a daytime person. Not very social except among a small exclusive hand picked group.
Revolution9,
This world outside the door is not a "Fair Place." In this public education has failed you. For public education and the body politic will try to make this world fair by getting those who work for what they have to pay for the "Fairness " of others ..without work and without RISKS.
Those who work and take RISKS with their lives and monies must... by a whorish body politic..work twice for those who would not work...or RISK to make the world fair. There is nothing "Fair " about this template nor whoredom by politics. And that is preciesly what it is .."Whoredom."
What we want to see from you is that you can take it as well as dish it out..and not whine about "Fair."
What some of us know about "Fair" and "Victimhood" is that today it has become a watchword for defaulting through without dissent..without challange, without question..based on the "Victim Dictum." I dont buy into this kind of cheap censorship..which is what PC doctrine and dogma behind "Victimization" has become.
I dont find these debate techniques to be very well thought out. For I am not such an Drama Queen living for my emotions.
Now as men we will try to treat others with decency. ..but we are not interested at making the world "Fair" while we are being "whored out" to make it "Fair " at our expense. This type of thinking is typically a female/feminine trait..not a manly trait...a trait of men.
While as men we enjoy coming to the breast...we know that we cannot stay there forever. We also know that no woman would want us at her breast forever.
For the female and the feminine are very good at redistributing someone else's RISKs to make the world :"Fair" while not taking any RISKS of their own. This is also a definition of what politics has become...feminine and whorish.
And politics..in it's whoredom has become the bartering, selling, and trading the souls of some to make the perfect Eden/Utopia for others without RISK...and to the glory of men and the body politic. Which is why it is whoredom.
As men ..we build our own by RISK TAKING or learn to do without.
One more thing Revolution9, I understood this by your screen name..but we ...or at least I am not interested in what John Lennon said or tried to say. I am interested in what you have to say on your own..your own thought process..in your own words..not in John Lennons words. I dont agree with John Lennon on many things.
I want to know the width and breadth of what you know..what you have experienced. Not how you live second hand through a song or movie. Understand now? This is why you are having an identity crisis..you're living second hand. I am not sure you comprehend this concept.
I also think that nenothtu, in his own way or manner, senses this in you...this identity crisis. This vulnurability...this insecurity. Which is why he can so easily pull your strings and get you to jump. Not intending to insult here but just to clue you in about how some men think. For I too sensed this about you.
Hope this helps and clarifies for you,
Thanks,
Orangetom
It was actually me who said that - it was a re-quote in one of the "whole post" quotes he re-posted. I said that for a reason - I try to target the reader in some way that they will have a visceral understanding of. I fear I may have gotten TOO visceral in his case... some people are very touchy and literal folk.
It's the same line I use on my teenage son, because he can grasp it, and it sticks in his mind.
Yes I understand why you would use this frame of reference with your son. I am, however, very concerned when I detect adults using it among other adults and they don't seem to have any real life experiences.
I think you understand this point..instinctively and with knowledge.
Just in case you missed the quick pre-script edit I did above: don't take anything i say too literally just yet - I'm still catching up on the thread after getting home from work...
Am I to understand that you work the graveyard shift..or at least night shift...perhapsed a 12 hour shift??
I would myself prefer to get back on the graveyard shift. I am not much of a daytime person. Not very social except among a small exclusive hand picked group.
Revolution9,
All I ask of you is that you quote me fairly and not just slam me down. I have a right to express myself and what I think in public as you do. I always react very defensively when I am dealt with unfairly.
This world outside the door is not a "Fair Place." In this public education has failed you. For public education and the body politic will try to make this world fair by getting those who work for what they have to pay for the "Fairness " of others ..without work and without RISKS.
Those who work and take RISKS with their lives and monies must... by a whorish body politic..work twice for those who would not work...or RISK to make the world fair. There is nothing "Fair " about this template nor whoredom by politics. And that is preciesly what it is .."Whoredom."
What we want to see from you is that you can take it as well as dish it out..and not whine about "Fair."
What some of us know about "Fair" and "Victimhood" is that today it has become a watchword for defaulting through without dissent..without challange, without question..based on the "Victim Dictum." I dont buy into this kind of cheap censorship..which is what PC doctrine and dogma behind "Victimization" has become.
I dont find these debate techniques to be very well thought out. For I am not such an Drama Queen living for my emotions.
Now as men we will try to treat others with decency. ..but we are not interested at making the world "Fair" while we are being "whored out" to make it "Fair " at our expense. This type of thinking is typically a female/feminine trait..not a manly trait...a trait of men.
While as men we enjoy coming to the breast...we know that we cannot stay there forever. We also know that no woman would want us at her breast forever.
For the female and the feminine are very good at redistributing someone else's RISKs to make the world :"Fair" while not taking any RISKS of their own. This is also a definition of what politics has become...feminine and whorish.
And politics..in it's whoredom has become the bartering, selling, and trading the souls of some to make the perfect Eden/Utopia for others without RISK...and to the glory of men and the body politic. Which is why it is whoredom.
As men ..we build our own by RISK TAKING or learn to do without.
One more thing Revolution9, I understood this by your screen name..but we ...or at least I am not interested in what John Lennon said or tried to say. I am interested in what you have to say on your own..your own thought process..in your own words..not in John Lennons words. I dont agree with John Lennon on many things.
I want to know the width and breadth of what you know..what you have experienced. Not how you live second hand through a song or movie. Understand now? This is why you are having an identity crisis..you're living second hand. I am not sure you comprehend this concept.
I also think that nenothtu, in his own way or manner, senses this in you...this identity crisis. This vulnurability...this insecurity. Which is why he can so easily pull your strings and get you to jump. Not intending to insult here but just to clue you in about how some men think. For I too sensed this about you.
Hope this helps and clarifies for you,
Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 9-10-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
I do agree with all that you say. I never claimed to have any answers. I just experiment. My life has been one long strange experiment at trying to
get a better deal in this life. Very early on I got sick of violence and have managed to live my adult life not being a victim of it and not using it.
I have been successful on that score. I have lived up thus far to my own ideals.
You are right in a sense about women. I think they are more than capable of getting their way at our expense. Yet, I do not want to participate in any of that. I am a conscienscious objector in the battle of the sexes.
I have been unable to find a suitable partner so far. I have not found a woman who can accept me for who I am. That makes me feel alienated. I have always fought my corner. I refuse to be the wallet in a relationship. In fact the only thing I feel a hole in my life in is a bit of companionship and affection. That is all I would ask of a partner and that is all I have to give a partner. Those are the terms for me personally.
If I were a younger man and there were children involved, of course it would be very different. But I am not interested in that now. For me, just a good friend to have some good times with. Yet this world does not allow for such simple things and has to complicate constantly; politics in relationships, in friendships, in the family, in the work place. I will be the first to admit that I am crap at the game of politics. I don't work on that level. I am very natural and don't get into the scheming, agenda, manipulation stuff.
Wow, I think of all that has happened to my friends. How they have worked for their women and been very loyal partners only to be cast aside and end up losing everything. Women are not considering the feelings and well being of men to be so cruel. Cruel it is, because I know these men have been loving and loyal.
One thing for sure, no woman will ever hurt me again. So on the one hand I can understand why women did react, yet on the other hand I see that it has been very hurtful to the well being of so many men.
Luckily, I have seen a few good relationships. In all cases these successes have been because the two partners are acting traditional roles. That speaks volumes,does it not?
However, I am one of the unfortunate ones who have not been able to act in that tradition. Believe me, I did not intend it. I am not the only guy either to have been set upon an exploration of new territory.
Also, I don't think any of us are doing anyone else a favor here by commenting as if we are the wise one with the most experience. I have noticed others are doing this. I don't think there is another man here who knows any better or worse than me what it is to be a man.
You are right in a sense about women. I think they are more than capable of getting their way at our expense. Yet, I do not want to participate in any of that. I am a conscienscious objector in the battle of the sexes.
I have been unable to find a suitable partner so far. I have not found a woman who can accept me for who I am. That makes me feel alienated. I have always fought my corner. I refuse to be the wallet in a relationship. In fact the only thing I feel a hole in my life in is a bit of companionship and affection. That is all I would ask of a partner and that is all I have to give a partner. Those are the terms for me personally.
If I were a younger man and there were children involved, of course it would be very different. But I am not interested in that now. For me, just a good friend to have some good times with. Yet this world does not allow for such simple things and has to complicate constantly; politics in relationships, in friendships, in the family, in the work place. I will be the first to admit that I am crap at the game of politics. I don't work on that level. I am very natural and don't get into the scheming, agenda, manipulation stuff.
Wow, I think of all that has happened to my friends. How they have worked for their women and been very loyal partners only to be cast aside and end up losing everything. Women are not considering the feelings and well being of men to be so cruel. Cruel it is, because I know these men have been loving and loyal.
One thing for sure, no woman will ever hurt me again. So on the one hand I can understand why women did react, yet on the other hand I see that it has been very hurtful to the well being of so many men.
Luckily, I have seen a few good relationships. In all cases these successes have been because the two partners are acting traditional roles. That speaks volumes,does it not?
However, I am one of the unfortunate ones who have not been able to act in that tradition. Believe me, I did not intend it. I am not the only guy either to have been set upon an exploration of new territory.
Also, I don't think any of us are doing anyone else a favor here by commenting as if we are the wise one with the most experience. I have noticed others are doing this. I don't think there is another man here who knows any better or worse than me what it is to be a man.
reply to post by orangetom1999
So much of the stuff I am seeing up here is offensively ignorant ! The extremes going from « women are better than men » seem to so easily provoke others ones into the opposite extreme in response ! Both are ridiculous.
« How many of the women in this world...no matter what their education levels..are going to take the RISKS needed to keep and maintain the systems which make them comfortable, more productive, and safe?? How many of them even know how they work ..how they operate?? »
First of all, just in terms of physical risks, this is bull. Or, perhaps in your environment, the culture has created women of this nature and you have confused that with being universal inherent femininity ? I do not know, but I know that I am one of the biggest risk takers there is and I am a woman. Finding a mate able to be as adventurous and take the same level of risks as me has been difficult.
I have given up everything and become homeless for a time, in order to re-create a life I wanted (while being 8 months pregnant).Later I chose to let go of my job, my apartment,, all of my possessions, and my family, (my security)in order to set off for another country I knew nothing about, couldn’t speak the language in, and my boyfriend had no job or home there either !
But he was not able to take the risk of living too far from his mother, in a land he didn’t really know well, so to be together, one of us had to take the risk . He was too scared . So I did.
I struggled with not being able to communicate for years and learned to speak fluently without taking lessons. I bought a business myself, became a respected commercant in this region, and developed excellent relational skills with clients and peers. I did my own accounting (took night classes to learn) and became a baker, and was very successful. The amount of risk, financially, and being able to juggle having three kids and such a career was huge ! But I did it. I eventually sold my business for a very nice profit.
I bought a three year old barely broke horse and learned to ride. Worked on it every day for three years, getting help when I could, working alone, out on the streets, everywhere,. I spent much time in the emergency room, they knew me by my first name. I had to have surgery and spent much time in casts or bedridden, and still managed to get up on that horse again while wearing a cast or a brace on my leg, a bandage on my head, a neck brace.....
Now , ten years later, I am a rather good cavalière, with a horse of higher sensitivity and hotness, and skills in classical dressage as well as reining and roping. On the exterior, I ride in isolated nature alone for days, and take risks I cannot even TELL my husband about because he’d have a heart attack !
Now I'm setting off into my new passion of scuba diving, and I am sure risks will be involved there too, just like everything in life of any value.
This thing about men being so much better at taking risks is something I have just not seen in life. At All. The men I have known in life seem rather concerned with stability and not rocking their security boat- and they have called me « wild » or else « unconscious of risks ». I have been called irrational by men who don’t know me well and aren’t aware that my risks are calculated and goal driven- I just don’t shout out to everyone else what I am doing, like they are more likely to do. I set my jaw, forge forward and focus on my vision of goal without wasting energy.
Besides the physical and financial risks that some people just don’t ever find occasion to face, women take emotional risks more often then the men I have known. Men are much less likely to take emotional risks, and usually are much less adept at mastering of their emotions, and so resort to oppressing them instead of directing them.
Women are not better than men, nor are men better than women, but they may have different ways of seeing things and responding to them. But fear of risk taking is not part of the general difference, except in how education plays a role in a specific culture.
So much of the stuff I am seeing up here is offensively ignorant ! The extremes going from « women are better than men » seem to so easily provoke others ones into the opposite extreme in response ! Both are ridiculous.
« How many of the women in this world...no matter what their education levels..are going to take the RISKS needed to keep and maintain the systems which make them comfortable, more productive, and safe?? How many of them even know how they work ..how they operate?? »
First of all, just in terms of physical risks, this is bull. Or, perhaps in your environment, the culture has created women of this nature and you have confused that with being universal inherent femininity ? I do not know, but I know that I am one of the biggest risk takers there is and I am a woman. Finding a mate able to be as adventurous and take the same level of risks as me has been difficult.
I have given up everything and become homeless for a time, in order to re-create a life I wanted (while being 8 months pregnant).Later I chose to let go of my job, my apartment,, all of my possessions, and my family, (my security)in order to set off for another country I knew nothing about, couldn’t speak the language in, and my boyfriend had no job or home there either !
But he was not able to take the risk of living too far from his mother, in a land he didn’t really know well, so to be together, one of us had to take the risk . He was too scared . So I did.
I struggled with not being able to communicate for years and learned to speak fluently without taking lessons. I bought a business myself, became a respected commercant in this region, and developed excellent relational skills with clients and peers. I did my own accounting (took night classes to learn) and became a baker, and was very successful. The amount of risk, financially, and being able to juggle having three kids and such a career was huge ! But I did it. I eventually sold my business for a very nice profit.
I bought a three year old barely broke horse and learned to ride. Worked on it every day for three years, getting help when I could, working alone, out on the streets, everywhere,. I spent much time in the emergency room, they knew me by my first name. I had to have surgery and spent much time in casts or bedridden, and still managed to get up on that horse again while wearing a cast or a brace on my leg, a bandage on my head, a neck brace.....
Now , ten years later, I am a rather good cavalière, with a horse of higher sensitivity and hotness, and skills in classical dressage as well as reining and roping. On the exterior, I ride in isolated nature alone for days, and take risks I cannot even TELL my husband about because he’d have a heart attack !
Now I'm setting off into my new passion of scuba diving, and I am sure risks will be involved there too, just like everything in life of any value.
This thing about men being so much better at taking risks is something I have just not seen in life. At All. The men I have known in life seem rather concerned with stability and not rocking their security boat- and they have called me « wild » or else « unconscious of risks ». I have been called irrational by men who don’t know me well and aren’t aware that my risks are calculated and goal driven- I just don’t shout out to everyone else what I am doing, like they are more likely to do. I set my jaw, forge forward and focus on my vision of goal without wasting energy.
Besides the physical and financial risks that some people just don’t ever find occasion to face, women take emotional risks more often then the men I have known. Men are much less likely to take emotional risks, and usually are much less adept at mastering of their emotions, and so resort to oppressing them instead of directing them.
Women are not better than men, nor are men better than women, but they may have different ways of seeing things and responding to them. But fear of risk taking is not part of the general difference, except in how education plays a role in a specific culture.
Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by orangetom1999
So much of the stuff I am seeing up here is offensively ignorant ! The extremes going from « women are better than men » seem to so easily provoke others ones into the opposite extreme in response ! Both are ridiculous.
« How many of the women in this world...no matter what their education levels..are going to take the RISKS needed to keep and maintain the systems which make them comfortable, more productive, and safe?? How many of them even know how they work ..how they operate?? »
First of all, just in terms of physical risks, this is bull. Or, perhaps in your environment, the culture has created women of this nature and you have confused that with being universal inherent femininity ? I do not know, but I know that I am one of the biggest risk takers there is and I am a woman. Finding a mate able to be as adventurous and take the same level of risks as me has been difficult.
I have given up everything and become homeless for a time, in order to re-create a life I wanted (while being 8 months pregnant).Later I chose to let go of my job, my apartment,, all of my possessions, and my family, (my security)in order to set off for another country I knew nothing about, couldn’t speak the language in, and my boyfriend had no job or home there either !
But he was not able to take the risk of living too far from his mother, in a land he didn’t really know well, so to be together, one of us had to take the risk . He was too scared . So I did.
I struggled with not being able to communicate for years and learned to speak fluently without taking lessons. I bought a business myself, became a respected commercant in this region, and developed excellent relational skills with clients and peers. I did my own accounting (took night classes to learn) and became a baker, and was very successful. The amount of risk, financially, and being able to juggle having three kids and such a career was huge ! But I did it. I eventually sold my business for a very nice profit.
I bought a three year old barely broke horse and learned to ride. Worked on it every day for three years, getting help when I could, working alone, out on the streets, everywhere,. I spent much time in the emergency room, they knew me by my first name. I had to have surgery and spent much time in casts or bedridden, and still managed to get up on that horse again while wearing a cast or a brace on my leg, a bandage on my head, a neck brace.....
Now , ten years later, I am a rather good cavalière, with a horse of higher sensitivity and hotness, and skills in classical dressage as well as reining and roping. On the exterior, I ride in isolated nature alone for days, and take risks I cannot even TELL my husband about because he’d have a heart attack !
Now I'm setting off into my new passion of scuba diving, and I am sure risks will be involved there too, just like everything in life of any value.
This thing about men being so much better at taking risks is something I have just not seen in life. At All. The men I have known in life seem rather concerned with stability and not rocking their security boat- and they have called me « wild » or else « unconscious of risks ». I have been called irrational by men who don’t know me well and aren’t aware that my risks are calculated and goal driven- I just don’t shout out to everyone else what I am doing, like they are more likely to do. I set my jaw, forge forward and focus on my vision of goal without wasting energy.
Besides the physical and financial risks that some people just don’t ever find occasion to face, women take emotional risks more often then the men I have known. Men are much less likely to take emotional risks, and usually are much less adept at mastering of their emotions, and so resort to oppressing them instead of directing them.
Women are not better than men, nor are men better than women, but they may have different ways of seeing things and responding to them. But fear of risk taking is not part of the general difference, except in how education plays a role in a specific culture.
if this is all true, I would like you to write a book about it. I'm not joking. every modern woman could learn from it.
Originally posted by carolina
I live in a small village in Mexico and have had the opportunity to be with groups of young mothers and their small children. A couple of years ago I observed a big difference between the little boys and the little girls. The girls were bright eyed, curious and animated. In other words normal. The boys however seemed listless, dull, uninterested and well abnormal. The older boys now are wild, very bratty and a general pain in the ... you know. Why? My theory is the 32 vaccinations these children receive by age two is affecting boys differently than the girls. If its true that we are all being led into a slave state wouldnt they want the boys to be more maliable, easier to manipulate than the generally peaceful girls. Four times now I have been told by adult men who are working for the government cutting down the trees, spraying toxic gas to control mosquitos, etc that they had their orders. It made my skin crawl. The problems between men and women are far bigger than whats going on in the USA. It is everywhere. The men here are also uncaring about their families not like in the states but they never attend school functions, buy their wives gifts or treat the family like the center of their world, even though they in fact are the glue that holds it all together. I think that this is more than a social issue, I thinks its been chemically engineered and is gonna get worse. Just my two cents-
wow- just powerful and a real wake up...even if only half true
reply to post by Revolution9
I can understand that. As a small child, I was " picked on"mercilessly for being a hillbilly in a place where hillbillies weren't very popular - even though I was born there. back then we were "picked on". "Bullying" had a different meaning then from what it has now. It meant physical blows, or threat of imminent violence. Verbal abuse didn't rise to the level of "bullying", but in some ways it stung more, and lasted longer.
I had two sisters who were born with cleft palates, and couldn't talk plain. They got "picked on" for that. I put up with the abuse of myself for several years, but wouldn't put up with it when they were the target. One day I "snapped", and decided enough was enough in regards to the abuse aimed at myself as well, and have not had that problem since. Not for very long, anyhow.
That has carried on through the subsequent years. In high school I spent a couple of summers at university in a special program designed to show us "ignorant hill folk" that college wasn't scary or something like that. Another of the boys there was what would charitably be called "flamboyant". less charitably he'd be referred to as "effeminate". I don't know if he was actually "gay" or not - never asked, didn't care - but because he was the way he was, not a "manly man", he was ostracized. Now, I had some experience of being on the receiving end of ostracism, knew that feeling, and didn't think it right, so I'd often go sit in his dorm room and talk to him, and no one else would. It was a bit of a pill, since he'd sometimes be wearing a "mud mask" or whatever those things are, but I'd do it any way, and just not pay any mind to the"oddities". No one should ever be friendless.
It wasn't long before I caught hell over that - other guys ribbing me about it and so on. That didn't last long though - just a matter of minutes before they understood they'd made a grievous error ribbing me like that. Within a couple of weeks, folks figured out that he wasn't "contagious" or whatever it was that caused them to make him an outcast, and he was accepted. The girls first, then me , then the boys when they saw that I didn't "catch" whatever it was they were scared of.
That carries on to this day. I can't abide by anyone living in fear or feeling outcast for no good reason. Because of that, and a few other incidents and situations, I can understand why you support the underdog.
I also understand why you took such umbrage at some of my choices of words. that wasn't directed at you personally, but at an inanimate object. Nevertheless, I apologize for my poor choice of verbiage.
I stand by pretty much everything else, though - after all, I AM a mean old fart, and no less a knuckle-dragger for all that!
I can understand that. As a small child, I was " picked on"mercilessly for being a hillbilly in a place where hillbillies weren't very popular - even though I was born there. back then we were "picked on". "Bullying" had a different meaning then from what it has now. It meant physical blows, or threat of imminent violence. Verbal abuse didn't rise to the level of "bullying", but in some ways it stung more, and lasted longer.
I had two sisters who were born with cleft palates, and couldn't talk plain. They got "picked on" for that. I put up with the abuse of myself for several years, but wouldn't put up with it when they were the target. One day I "snapped", and decided enough was enough in regards to the abuse aimed at myself as well, and have not had that problem since. Not for very long, anyhow.
That has carried on through the subsequent years. In high school I spent a couple of summers at university in a special program designed to show us "ignorant hill folk" that college wasn't scary or something like that. Another of the boys there was what would charitably be called "flamboyant". less charitably he'd be referred to as "effeminate". I don't know if he was actually "gay" or not - never asked, didn't care - but because he was the way he was, not a "manly man", he was ostracized. Now, I had some experience of being on the receiving end of ostracism, knew that feeling, and didn't think it right, so I'd often go sit in his dorm room and talk to him, and no one else would. It was a bit of a pill, since he'd sometimes be wearing a "mud mask" or whatever those things are, but I'd do it any way, and just not pay any mind to the"oddities". No one should ever be friendless.
It wasn't long before I caught hell over that - other guys ribbing me about it and so on. That didn't last long though - just a matter of minutes before they understood they'd made a grievous error ribbing me like that. Within a couple of weeks, folks figured out that he wasn't "contagious" or whatever it was that caused them to make him an outcast, and he was accepted. The girls first, then me , then the boys when they saw that I didn't "catch" whatever it was they were scared of.
That carries on to this day. I can't abide by anyone living in fear or feeling outcast for no good reason. Because of that, and a few other incidents and situations, I can understand why you support the underdog.
I also understand why you took such umbrage at some of my choices of words. that wasn't directed at you personally, but at an inanimate object. Nevertheless, I apologize for my poor choice of verbiage.
I stand by pretty much everything else, though - after all, I AM a mean old fart, and no less a knuckle-dragger for all that!
edit on 2011/10/9 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by nenothtu
Cool! Personally, I think there is room for both of us in this world. I am glad you are there and who you are. I don't want us all to be the same anyway.
There is. there is room for all kinds. I never meant to imply otherwise, but can see how it could be taken as such.
However, there are some real problems in this world and there are reasons why those problems are there. I am just soul searching because I have been on the receiving end of those "problems".
True enough. We all meet those problems differently, in our own ways.
All I ask of you is that you quote me fairly and not just slam me down. I have a right to express myself and what I think in public as you do. I always react very defensively when I am dealt with unfairly.
Absolutely you have that right, as do we all. Don't ask me not to be an a-hole, though. that would just be too much. it's part of the package. The woman that lives with me can handle it, under the same roof - I'm sure you can across miles and miles of wire.
I've got faith in ya like that!
Originally posted by orangetom1999
nenothtu,
LOL LOL LOL...
I'm going to make some popcorn and a drink. I'll be back to get a front row seat!!
I am being humorous of course. This is a serious topic and hope some of us learn from it.
But nonetheless thanks for the show. I am indeed putting on my thinking cap.
Go ahead, you can say it - it won't be the first time I've been told that I "just ain't right"!
As for the Arabs...I dont feel sorry for them. For they too, when of mind and soul, will kill you if you blink. The discipline is not to blink or let them see you blink. This is a trait, I believe, long gone from much of our current crop of non leadership.
Not Hillary. That woman is a viper - I don't think she EVER blinks. I'm not sure she even has eyelids. I think she'd kill ya without batting an eye. that's one woman I NEVER want to meet in a dark alley!
Hell, I'm not sure I'd even turn her loose on the Arabs! Terrorists, yes, but what have the Arabs in general ever done to deserve that?
edit on 2011/10/9 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Yes I understand why you would use this frame of reference with your son. I am, however, very concerned when I detect adults using it among other adults and they don't seem to have any real life experiences.
I think you understand this point..instinctively and with knowledge.
Yup, I understand. If that's the main course rather than a snack, it's troublesome.
Am I to understand that you work the graveyard shift..or at least night shift...perhapsed a 12 hour shift??
I would myself prefer to get back on the graveyard shift. I am not much of a daytime person. Not very social except among a small exclusive hand picked group.
Yup. I work by myself, out in the middle of nowhere, 12 or 15 hour shifts overnight. I intersperse patrols with visits to the office, and was posting from the office. The internet and ATS help pass time on boring nights. I like boring. Boring is a good thing in my line of work."Exciting" gets TOO exciting, too fast.
Originally posted by dragonseeker
if this is all true, I would like you to write a book about it. I'm not joking. every modern woman could learn from it.
My husband has been trying to get me to do just that for years, and I just couldn't see the reason for it. But when I read some balderdash about women being so weak of heart, afraid of risks, superificial, incapable, materialistic, and yada, yada, yada..... I think some men need to wake up.
But then most of them wouldn't read it if it didn't have pictures.
edit on 9-10-2011 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Bluesma
Originally posted by dragonseeker
if this is all true, I would like you to write a book about it. I'm not joking. every modern woman could learn from it.
My husband has been trying to get me to do just that for years, and I just couldn't see the reason for it. But when I read some balderdash about women being so weak of heart, afraid of risks, superificial, incapable, materialistic, and yada, yada, yada..... I think some men need to wake up.
But then most of them wouldn't read it if it didn't have pictures.edit on 9-10-2011 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
you sound like you've lived a very interesting life. I think women would find true empowerment from it if you wrote a novel about your life. and real men would respect the things you've done. do it
edit on 9-10-2011 by dragonseeker because: (no reason given)
Oh wow Partygirl opened up a can worms with this thread, these threads always take of like there on fire. Really there is much unsaid and that is
bitter between men and women. Its a wonder this one has not been shut down yet, as more then a couple that I have been in or seen have. And I have
not read the whole thing but did anybody get banned yet? There usually is somebody who does.
I always liked these threads, they are interesting and you learn much in them. And much you want to forget, but mostly stuff that you knew already and forgot about. I for one have remembered why I chose forgot some things. Truly! there is nothing new under the sun.
I always liked these threads, they are interesting and you learn much in them. And much you want to forget, but mostly stuff that you knew already and forgot about. I for one have remembered why I chose forgot some things. Truly! there is nothing new under the sun.
Men aren't in trouble. We just chose not to play a rigged game any longer, myself included. I watched my mother destroy my father in a divorce just
because she could. My Dad lived in a 14x17 efficiency shack (I refuse to call it an apartment) and eat ramen noodles and bologna for the next several
years while struggling to pay the court-ordered robbery. She left him.
Fourteen years to the month later, his second wife stole $250,000 from him in another divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. His words? (Mods censor it if you want but this is an exact quote)
"I could have been beating the hell out of her on a daily basis and it wouldn't have cost me a damn dime extra."
Divorce laws are horribly biased against men, and custody laws that much more. My Dad forcibly removed me from my house with assistance from my maternal grandmother because things like the electricity bill weren't getting paid, despite $900/mo child support being paid to my mother. Bear in mind that this was in the year 1994. Luckily by Louisiana law the child can choose where he/she wants to live after age 12, with reasonable restrictions.
Regarding marriage, while I never actually walked down the aisle, I have been engaged twice. Both were ditched with the utmost haste once I realized that BOTH were after a free ride and not a companion. I spent better than 5 years between both of them. It's been said before...if it comes down to staying married for a few years and then getting robbed of nearly everything I own OR firing up a doob and the PS3...i'm gonna take the route that has less emotional stress. The only way to win is to not play the game, to quote one of my favorite movies.
Pass the controller and the lighter, please.
To the women that cry that there are no decent men out there, *that* is a problem of your own doing. Stop going after the rich frat boy with a brand new $30,000 truck and start looking at the quiet unassuming guys that still have an intact sense of humility. THERE are your decent men. The real men know that looks aren't everything, and those are the ones you want to be with.
Rodney Carrington sums this up quite well. "I'd rather be with a chunky girl with a great attitude than a supermodel that's well, a *bleep* (female dog). The reverse should apply.
Fourteen years to the month later, his second wife stole $250,000 from him in another divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. His words? (Mods censor it if you want but this is an exact quote)
"I could have been beating the hell out of her on a daily basis and it wouldn't have cost me a damn dime extra."
Divorce laws are horribly biased against men, and custody laws that much more. My Dad forcibly removed me from my house with assistance from my maternal grandmother because things like the electricity bill weren't getting paid, despite $900/mo child support being paid to my mother. Bear in mind that this was in the year 1994. Luckily by Louisiana law the child can choose where he/she wants to live after age 12, with reasonable restrictions.
Regarding marriage, while I never actually walked down the aisle, I have been engaged twice. Both were ditched with the utmost haste once I realized that BOTH were after a free ride and not a companion. I spent better than 5 years between both of them. It's been said before...if it comes down to staying married for a few years and then getting robbed of nearly everything I own OR firing up a doob and the PS3...i'm gonna take the route that has less emotional stress. The only way to win is to not play the game, to quote one of my favorite movies.
Pass the controller and the lighter, please.
To the women that cry that there are no decent men out there, *that* is a problem of your own doing. Stop going after the rich frat boy with a brand new $30,000 truck and start looking at the quiet unassuming guys that still have an intact sense of humility. THERE are your decent men. The real men know that looks aren't everything, and those are the ones you want to be with.
Rodney Carrington sums this up quite well. "I'd rather be with a chunky girl with a great attitude than a supermodel that's well, a *bleep* (female dog). The reverse should apply.
reply to post by Bluesma
Bluesman,
I did not say that you personally were not a risk taker. My statement was that as a whole Women are not big risk takers.
I am happy for you that you succeeded in the manner that you have. But it is obvious that you are not a cross section of most of the women out here.
Most of the women I have met when it comes to risk taking where they may put their physical attributes in Jeopardy..ie their beauty and sexual values..or both..they will back off and let or try to get someone else to underwrite the RISKS for them. Therefore a lot of their investments are in the social arena in order to accomplish this goal of getting someone else to take the RISKs out of life for them and then also and eventually for children.
This is why I say for all the talk early on in this thread and threads like them...the women have no interest in learning about, keeping and or maintaining the complex systems for which they take for granted yet provide great comfort and ease for them. They know little to nothing about how the cars they take for granted work ..nor are they interested in learning. It would require to much commitment. How about Air conditioning? Gas or electric ranges. And the list goes on and on and on.
All these things are taken for granted by artificial social constructs. Taking care of building and maintaining these things are not their responsibility nor interests because of the way the social constructs are made.
Most males with a sports, television and movie education never thinking about the nature of this. By this I mean the nature of the socical constructs. And I believe the system is set up to prevent the male from thinking about the nature of a thing. He it to busy thinking about other things ..including an Oil Shortage and sports mentality.
Yet.;women are more suited to run this world. I think not.
When you understand the social constructs...women's social order and the manner in which it comes about is not far removed from the way the body politic works. Someone else takes the RISKS and they take the credit and fruit.
Politics has become more about social constructs today..ie...appearances..and not ability. Very Very feminine. Politics has become more and more openly Occult in its nature. Non representative of the bulk of the peoples they claim to represent. This has also become clear because polling data now becomes more important than what is true or right and wrong. Very very feminine and occult in its nature. And the Occult is heavily invested by women. It is also heavily invested in Emotions/Passions.
Now this Bluesma.. while true...it should be obvious to you why this is so...
Very few females take this further..and even fewer males do as well. They just do not have the capacity to think it through.
Women live to cater to their emotions. Particularly in more affluent social and economic structures. I can clearly tell this by going into any grocery store or department store. The plethora of goods instantly available for a price. Instant gratification. And many women learn in the social system that if they play their cards right they can get someone else to take RISKS for them and their offspring for more instant gratification..ie emotional satisfaction.
Men learn that they must take RISKS for this system and not get instant gratification. Males learn that the most inistant gratification they will get is to live second hand through sports heros, movies and television. To me a pitiful situation.
For many of them if they go to their jobs and become instant emotional peoples catering to their emotions...they will get hurt, killed, or do the same to others. Hence they learn to discipline their emotions..not cater to them. The transition when coming home in this mindset is a significant one. A transition for which so many females take for granted because they have no intention of going into into such an enviornment.
Most females choose occupations which better suit their personalities..not necessarily for the money..but for the Options/Comfort Levels. An Option very few men get.
Females expect socially ..and particularly in the more economically affluent nations... to cater to their emotions..not deny or discipline them.
One trip to a grocery store or shopping center/mall confirms this for me.
Now are all women like this ..no they are not..but one trip about any town or city in America and one can see the nature of what is going on. The larger the city and town the more obvious it is. Also the more obvious the relation to politics.
You...Bluesma..are not all women. I would say you are more the exception...and not the rule here in the States.
If you have accomplished this ..I would say it has taken alot of discipline and keeping your eyes on the goal while raising children. A significant task for anyone. This separates you from many of the females out here..also from many of the males.
I do know that in many foreign countries the women do not have all the market share directed to them and must face hardship and difficulty in ways that Stateside women take so for granted. The males too. Both have no idea how different it is in many countries outside the states.
The males of today..more and more are being raised in front of a television set, movie screen, peer group, or by mothers or all of these. There is very little adult male influence in their lives. Hence they to are not keen on RISK Taking.
Convenience, Options, and Fun Stuff..yes...but Risks, Difficulties, and Inconvenience no. Very very feminine.
Now ..with a structure slated to become more and more feminine/high maintenance...who is going to be picking up the slack...government..another feminine organization?? I think not.
Bluesma, by what you post, I think you are more the exception than the rule..both among males as well as females.
Thanks for your post.
Orangetom
Bluesman,
I did not say that you personally were not a risk taker. My statement was that as a whole Women are not big risk takers.
I am happy for you that you succeeded in the manner that you have. But it is obvious that you are not a cross section of most of the women out here.
Most of the women I have met when it comes to risk taking where they may put their physical attributes in Jeopardy..ie their beauty and sexual values..or both..they will back off and let or try to get someone else to underwrite the RISKS for them. Therefore a lot of their investments are in the social arena in order to accomplish this goal of getting someone else to take the RISKs out of life for them and then also and eventually for children.
This is why I say for all the talk early on in this thread and threads like them...the women have no interest in learning about, keeping and or maintaining the complex systems for which they take for granted yet provide great comfort and ease for them. They know little to nothing about how the cars they take for granted work ..nor are they interested in learning. It would require to much commitment. How about Air conditioning? Gas or electric ranges. And the list goes on and on and on.
All these things are taken for granted by artificial social constructs. Taking care of building and maintaining these things are not their responsibility nor interests because of the way the social constructs are made.
Most males with a sports, television and movie education never thinking about the nature of this. By this I mean the nature of the socical constructs. And I believe the system is set up to prevent the male from thinking about the nature of a thing. He it to busy thinking about other things ..including an Oil Shortage and sports mentality.
Yet.;women are more suited to run this world. I think not.
When you understand the social constructs...women's social order and the manner in which it comes about is not far removed from the way the body politic works. Someone else takes the RISKS and they take the credit and fruit.
Politics has become more about social constructs today..ie...appearances..and not ability. Very Very feminine. Politics has become more and more openly Occult in its nature. Non representative of the bulk of the peoples they claim to represent. This has also become clear because polling data now becomes more important than what is true or right and wrong. Very very feminine and occult in its nature. And the Occult is heavily invested by women. It is also heavily invested in Emotions/Passions.
Now this Bluesma.. while true...it should be obvious to you why this is so...
Very few females take this further..and even fewer males do as well. They just do not have the capacity to think it through.
Besides the physical and financial risks that some people just don’t ever find occasion to face, women take emotional risks more often then the men I have known. Men are much less likely to take emotional risks, and usually are much less adept at mastering of their emotions, and so resort to oppressing them instead of directing them.
Women live to cater to their emotions. Particularly in more affluent social and economic structures. I can clearly tell this by going into any grocery store or department store. The plethora of goods instantly available for a price. Instant gratification. And many women learn in the social system that if they play their cards right they can get someone else to take RISKS for them and their offspring for more instant gratification..ie emotional satisfaction.
Men learn that they must take RISKS for this system and not get instant gratification. Males learn that the most inistant gratification they will get is to live second hand through sports heros, movies and television. To me a pitiful situation.
For many of them if they go to their jobs and become instant emotional peoples catering to their emotions...they will get hurt, killed, or do the same to others. Hence they learn to discipline their emotions..not cater to them. The transition when coming home in this mindset is a significant one. A transition for which so many females take for granted because they have no intention of going into into such an enviornment.
Most females choose occupations which better suit their personalities..not necessarily for the money..but for the Options/Comfort Levels. An Option very few men get.
Females expect socially ..and particularly in the more economically affluent nations... to cater to their emotions..not deny or discipline them.
One trip to a grocery store or shopping center/mall confirms this for me.
Now are all women like this ..no they are not..but one trip about any town or city in America and one can see the nature of what is going on. The larger the city and town the more obvious it is. Also the more obvious the relation to politics.
You...Bluesma..are not all women. I would say you are more the exception...and not the rule here in the States.
If you have accomplished this ..I would say it has taken alot of discipline and keeping your eyes on the goal while raising children. A significant task for anyone. This separates you from many of the females out here..also from many of the males.
I do know that in many foreign countries the women do not have all the market share directed to them and must face hardship and difficulty in ways that Stateside women take so for granted. The males too. Both have no idea how different it is in many countries outside the states.
The males of today..more and more are being raised in front of a television set, movie screen, peer group, or by mothers or all of these. There is very little adult male influence in their lives. Hence they to are not keen on RISK Taking.
Convenience, Options, and Fun Stuff..yes...but Risks, Difficulties, and Inconvenience no. Very very feminine.
Now ..with a structure slated to become more and more feminine/high maintenance...who is going to be picking up the slack...government..another feminine organization?? I think not.
Bluesma, by what you post, I think you are more the exception than the rule..both among males as well as females.
Thanks for your post.
Orangetom
edit on 10-10-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by netwarrior
While I have no idea who is Rodney Carrington and have never heard the name until you posted it here.
I recommend to the males out here a book titled
Why Men are the Way They Are
by
Warren Farrell.
Warren Farrell was at one time a member of NOW until he awoke and realized something was very amiss about the movement.
Warren Farrell also has a number of videos on U Tube covering the subjects and areas on which you spoke in your last post. They are very educational and speak on topics in a manner in which most males have never bothered to think about the nature of what is going on out here and what has happened to them.
Warren Farrell along with other thinking writers has done a number of other books on this topic line including how the system is trying to feminize the males in public schools, politics and the media, to make them malleable and controllable to the feminine system. To remove the natural aggressiveness/RISK TAKING out of them. To make them just like everyone else...a good consumer. A xerox copy.
Not an individual thinker or doer. But instead a controllable malleable xerox copy.
Revolution9,
I highly recommend that you go to U Tube and watch/listen to the videos by Warren Farrell and his discription or explaination of why and how things are the way they are.
If you are able to think outide the limited box of what passes for males today , it will help you greatly with your insecurities/vulnurabilities in getting you to understand the nature of what is going on around you ..particularly with the females.
You are also in the UK which is a great disadvantage. The UK is to me one of the Ultimate Feminine expressions of nonsense going on in the world today. Much of what is going on in the UK and what they are doing to their peoples does not even make good Nonsense to me. But it does make a malleable, controllable, people lacking in individuality or the ability to be individuals. It makes for a people easily controlled by guilt and social constructs.
It is also putting the average Brit in a position of getting second, third, or further place down the line in his own country. One can only do this if the people are feminised.
What concerns me is that this feminised template is slated to be done here in the USA. Someone wants to make this country and its people into Englishmen. We ..those of us who know..have no desire to become Englishmen...or feminised.
A male who can think outside the box..can easily understand why a woman would not want or respect a feminised male.
Here by Warren Farrell...The Myth of Male Power. You can begin here..bookmark this beginning video...there are alot of other Warren Farrell videos in the list to the right.
www.youtube.com...
Hope this helps you.
Thanks,
Orangetom
While I have no idea who is Rodney Carrington and have never heard the name until you posted it here.
I recommend to the males out here a book titled
Why Men are the Way They Are
by
Warren Farrell.
Warren Farrell was at one time a member of NOW until he awoke and realized something was very amiss about the movement.
Warren Farrell also has a number of videos on U Tube covering the subjects and areas on which you spoke in your last post. They are very educational and speak on topics in a manner in which most males have never bothered to think about the nature of what is going on out here and what has happened to them.
Warren Farrell along with other thinking writers has done a number of other books on this topic line including how the system is trying to feminize the males in public schools, politics and the media, to make them malleable and controllable to the feminine system. To remove the natural aggressiveness/RISK TAKING out of them. To make them just like everyone else...a good consumer. A xerox copy.
Not an individual thinker or doer. But instead a controllable malleable xerox copy.
Revolution9,
I highly recommend that you go to U Tube and watch/listen to the videos by Warren Farrell and his discription or explaination of why and how things are the way they are.
If you are able to think outide the limited box of what passes for males today , it will help you greatly with your insecurities/vulnurabilities in getting you to understand the nature of what is going on around you ..particularly with the females.
You are also in the UK which is a great disadvantage. The UK is to me one of the Ultimate Feminine expressions of nonsense going on in the world today. Much of what is going on in the UK and what they are doing to their peoples does not even make good Nonsense to me. But it does make a malleable, controllable, people lacking in individuality or the ability to be individuals. It makes for a people easily controlled by guilt and social constructs.
It is also putting the average Brit in a position of getting second, third, or further place down the line in his own country. One can only do this if the people are feminised.
What concerns me is that this feminised template is slated to be done here in the USA. Someone wants to make this country and its people into Englishmen. We ..those of us who know..have no desire to become Englishmen...or feminised.
A male who can think outside the box..can easily understand why a woman would not want or respect a feminised male.
Here by Warren Farrell...The Myth of Male Power. You can begin here..bookmark this beginning video...there are alot of other Warren Farrell videos in the list to the right.
www.youtube.com...
Hope this helps you.
Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 10-10-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by orangetom1999
It may be that in some ways I am an exception- when it comes to AMERICAN women. (and probably why I didn’t choose to stay there, nor partner with an American man.)
But that is my point- it is a result of education. When I first got to France, I heard a french woman just back from a year living in the US say , « It seems the Americans do not like women ! » I was confused at first, I didn’t realize what she meant. Now I do.
Because being a woman is NOT about looks in other parts of the world. It is not about being attractive in the male eye. Female strength is not seen that way, so no woman here is going to protect their looks in the same way (with make up, boob jobs, sexy clothes).
I lived under the same cultural pressures as every other girl in the US, (especially growing up in LA and Orange County) so I am aware of it. The women you speak of are taught to act like that, it is not the inherent female nature.
The culture or over consumption and immediate gratification is not, in my mind, a manifestation of catering to ones emotions. Emotions are largely stimulated by the mind, especially in the US, where the natural instincts of the body are still considered « evil » or the source of sin. For example, much of the bad eating habits are due to NOT listening to and following what one feels inside, but rather, what they THINK. The idea that « I love Cinnabuns ! They are heavenly ! » becomes and fixed idea in the mind...... that stimulates th ebody to react to the view of cinnabuns because it is following that concept about « I ». Completely ignoring the feelign in their body that tells them they are NOT hungry at the moment. They eat it anyway. They keep eating way past the natural feeling of not being hungry, because their thoughts are that they want more, not because they really do.
They buy certain thigns because of their ideas about those things, not usually according to what their base feelings and emotions tell them.
Women have sex or try to seduce a man that can provide financial security because she has been conditioned to think that is « desireable » to do. If she actually listened to her emotions she would not be having sex or trying to seduce a man that she doesn’t feel deep attraction and care for !
But yes, I still think women are often better able to manipulate their emotions- and that is exactly why they can be manipulative with the emotions of others. I think in the American culture, they are not taught to manipulate emotions responsibly. But in some other cultures, instead of simply calling that skill bad, (therefore making it become a bad thing, like any taboo) girls are taught the positive and beneficial ways that ability can be used. And the female gains a new value to society as a whole.
It is true that everywhere, men seem to feel more drawn to the workings of that which mechanic, whereas women seem to be more drawn to that which is living. Women are better at creating and manipulating the living forms, men at the non-living material forms. But our society has both of these things so both are necessary interests and focus.
Systems (such as political systems) are not living, in themself, but they are made of living beings , and like all our creations, mirror nature and our own inner workings in their basic structure, so yes, I think both men and women are valuable in this area.
The biggest difference I have percieved in other cultures which de-values the feminine is the lack of value upon the home life.
But anyway, I do feel that the things you are calling female characteristics are simply cultural education. And I think pushing forward this cultural education, and the belief that « women, you are just naturally like this, you can’t help it » is quite useful to the man who wants to keep them that way !
It may be that in some ways I am an exception- when it comes to AMERICAN women. (and probably why I didn’t choose to stay there, nor partner with an American man.)
But that is my point- it is a result of education. When I first got to France, I heard a french woman just back from a year living in the US say , « It seems the Americans do not like women ! » I was confused at first, I didn’t realize what she meant. Now I do.
Because being a woman is NOT about looks in other parts of the world. It is not about being attractive in the male eye. Female strength is not seen that way, so no woman here is going to protect their looks in the same way (with make up, boob jobs, sexy clothes).
I lived under the same cultural pressures as every other girl in the US, (especially growing up in LA and Orange County) so I am aware of it. The women you speak of are taught to act like that, it is not the inherent female nature.
The culture or over consumption and immediate gratification is not, in my mind, a manifestation of catering to ones emotions. Emotions are largely stimulated by the mind, especially in the US, where the natural instincts of the body are still considered « evil » or the source of sin. For example, much of the bad eating habits are due to NOT listening to and following what one feels inside, but rather, what they THINK. The idea that « I love Cinnabuns ! They are heavenly ! » becomes and fixed idea in the mind...... that stimulates th ebody to react to the view of cinnabuns because it is following that concept about « I ». Completely ignoring the feelign in their body that tells them they are NOT hungry at the moment. They eat it anyway. They keep eating way past the natural feeling of not being hungry, because their thoughts are that they want more, not because they really do.
They buy certain thigns because of their ideas about those things, not usually according to what their base feelings and emotions tell them.
Women have sex or try to seduce a man that can provide financial security because she has been conditioned to think that is « desireable » to do. If she actually listened to her emotions she would not be having sex or trying to seduce a man that she doesn’t feel deep attraction and care for !
But yes, I still think women are often better able to manipulate their emotions- and that is exactly why they can be manipulative with the emotions of others. I think in the American culture, they are not taught to manipulate emotions responsibly. But in some other cultures, instead of simply calling that skill bad, (therefore making it become a bad thing, like any taboo) girls are taught the positive and beneficial ways that ability can be used. And the female gains a new value to society as a whole.
It is true that everywhere, men seem to feel more drawn to the workings of that which mechanic, whereas women seem to be more drawn to that which is living. Women are better at creating and manipulating the living forms, men at the non-living material forms. But our society has both of these things so both are necessary interests and focus.
Systems (such as political systems) are not living, in themself, but they are made of living beings , and like all our creations, mirror nature and our own inner workings in their basic structure, so yes, I think both men and women are valuable in this area.
The biggest difference I have percieved in other cultures which de-values the feminine is the lack of value upon the home life.
But anyway, I do feel that the things you are calling female characteristics are simply cultural education. And I think pushing forward this cultural education, and the belief that « women, you are just naturally like this, you can’t help it » is quite useful to the man who wants to keep them that way !
reply to post by nenothtu
So woozy over your homoerotic avatar. The worst thing that comes to my mind is that you are are eating Cheetos and masturbating in your sock. Must suck being morbidly overweight. God....please mod's....just ban me for Christ's sake.
So woozy over your homoerotic avatar. The worst thing that comes to my mind is that you are are eating Cheetos and masturbating in your sock. Must suck being morbidly overweight. God....please mod's....just ban me for Christ's sake.
The claim that the system is trying to feminize males to « make them malleable and controllable to the feminine system. To remove the natural
aggressiveness/RISK TAKING out of them. To make them just like everyone else...a good consumer. A xerox copy.
Not an individual thinker or doer. But instead a controllable malleable xerox copy. »
Could be used with equal force as explanation for the feminist movement, seeking to masculinize women, to remove the natural sensitivity /risk taking out of them. To make them a good consumer, and a controllable malleable zerox copy »
Bringing them out of the base of power in the home and family, into the arena of business allowed the masculine-based system to then have more control of them. It faciliated the systems insertion into the home and family life. The children then could be brought into the system, as working moms can’t stay at home and do it. What they eat could controlled by the system as the mothers could no longer spend the time to grow /raise their own and prepare the meals.. The emotional needs could be brought to shrink and recieve guidance from the system instead of in depth talking and guidance with the woman of the family.
So if you are serious conspiracy theorist, you can focus on that. But if you step back, look at the bigger picture, you can see that the system can only do these things if they find a desire within the people to respond to- there is a reason the people embrace it when they do. Our will is always at work.
Women accepted this proposal to try out a different way of living and being because they wanted to. They wanted to see what it is like on the other side of the fence, and get to know their own masculine side. So they did. In my perception they have developed it rather well on the whole, and shown they are perfectly capable- but many are finding that even if they CAN, living it all the time doesn’t make them happy. They want a balance, they want to ALSO experience their feminine side too.
So we get the system proposing to men to try out the other side of the fence and get to know their feminine side. That is an emotional risk. It means thinking outside the box, stepping out of what you already know and are comfortable with. This fear of being feminized is not being a risk taker ! Trusting another, being dependant upon another, sitting in the passanger seat is difficult to do, and calls for great courage and willingness to take a risk.
So don’t try to rationalize your fear of this risk, of opening your mind outside your box by painting the outside of your comfy known area as evil. It is pathetic.
From my view, as someone who entered adulthood after the era of my parents feminism focus, I think that knowing your masculine side and abilities (if you are woman) is useful, and complimentary when your feminine side is just as developed. You can pull out either as is appropriate in each situation.
So I tend to think that it might be good, in the long run, for men also, to be aquainted with and develop their feminine side so they too, can have a balanced set of tools in their mental and physical tool box to use as necessary. This makes for a more capable, well rounded, and independant individual.
Women gained insight into men this way, and became better partners, and I think the same is possible for men. Step into the others shoes for a while and you’ll see that much you didn’t understand about the opposite sex finally makes sense and you can have more peaceful, more creative and more FUN relationships with each other.
Okay, if this first wave of men trying it out are learning that staying at home actually requires a ton of self discipline, so you don’t end up playing a game on the X Box all day (or watching a soap) good for them ! Now they’ll understand the REAL sense of « working for yourself » (without even the system to help discipline you).
If their finding out that trusting their mate while she is gone all day and has nothing on her mind but her career is stressful and can get lonely and depressing- good for them ! That mystery of the female is solved at last !
Just as the woman realized that having a dinner made when she gets home is a NEED when you are the one out there, having your clothes washed and ironed when you get out of the shower is a need. Having someone feed the kids, talk with them, manage their emotional and mental growth and help them get their homework done is a need..... and suddenly they saw that they were needed when they did that.
And men, once they’ve done that, understand that it wasn’t easy and it was important work, and they needed it too.
Both can realize that it wasn’t a relationship of dependance back then, as the system told them- it was a system of interdependance and exchange.
The very basis of relation and community.
Not an individual thinker or doer. But instead a controllable malleable xerox copy. »
Could be used with equal force as explanation for the feminist movement, seeking to masculinize women, to remove the natural sensitivity /risk taking out of them. To make them a good consumer, and a controllable malleable zerox copy »
Bringing them out of the base of power in the home and family, into the arena of business allowed the masculine-based system to then have more control of them. It faciliated the systems insertion into the home and family life. The children then could be brought into the system, as working moms can’t stay at home and do it. What they eat could controlled by the system as the mothers could no longer spend the time to grow /raise their own and prepare the meals.. The emotional needs could be brought to shrink and recieve guidance from the system instead of in depth talking and guidance with the woman of the family.
So if you are serious conspiracy theorist, you can focus on that. But if you step back, look at the bigger picture, you can see that the system can only do these things if they find a desire within the people to respond to- there is a reason the people embrace it when they do. Our will is always at work.
Women accepted this proposal to try out a different way of living and being because they wanted to. They wanted to see what it is like on the other side of the fence, and get to know their own masculine side. So they did. In my perception they have developed it rather well on the whole, and shown they are perfectly capable- but many are finding that even if they CAN, living it all the time doesn’t make them happy. They want a balance, they want to ALSO experience their feminine side too.
So we get the system proposing to men to try out the other side of the fence and get to know their feminine side. That is an emotional risk. It means thinking outside the box, stepping out of what you already know and are comfortable with. This fear of being feminized is not being a risk taker ! Trusting another, being dependant upon another, sitting in the passanger seat is difficult to do, and calls for great courage and willingness to take a risk.
So don’t try to rationalize your fear of this risk, of opening your mind outside your box by painting the outside of your comfy known area as evil. It is pathetic.
From my view, as someone who entered adulthood after the era of my parents feminism focus, I think that knowing your masculine side and abilities (if you are woman) is useful, and complimentary when your feminine side is just as developed. You can pull out either as is appropriate in each situation.
So I tend to think that it might be good, in the long run, for men also, to be aquainted with and develop their feminine side so they too, can have a balanced set of tools in their mental and physical tool box to use as necessary. This makes for a more capable, well rounded, and independant individual.
Women gained insight into men this way, and became better partners, and I think the same is possible for men. Step into the others shoes for a while and you’ll see that much you didn’t understand about the opposite sex finally makes sense and you can have more peaceful, more creative and more FUN relationships with each other.
Okay, if this first wave of men trying it out are learning that staying at home actually requires a ton of self discipline, so you don’t end up playing a game on the X Box all day (or watching a soap) good for them ! Now they’ll understand the REAL sense of « working for yourself » (without even the system to help discipline you).
If their finding out that trusting their mate while she is gone all day and has nothing on her mind but her career is stressful and can get lonely and depressing- good for them ! That mystery of the female is solved at last !
Just as the woman realized that having a dinner made when she gets home is a NEED when you are the one out there, having your clothes washed and ironed when you get out of the shower is a need. Having someone feed the kids, talk with them, manage their emotional and mental growth and help them get their homework done is a need..... and suddenly they saw that they were needed when they did that.
And men, once they’ve done that, understand that it wasn’t easy and it was important work, and they needed it too.
Both can realize that it wasn’t a relationship of dependance back then, as the system told them- it was a system of interdependance and exchange.
The very basis of relation and community.
Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by nenothtu
So woozy over your homoerotic avatar. The worst thing that comes to my mind is that you are are eating Cheetos and masturbating in your sock. Must suck being morbidly overweight. God....please mod's....just ban me for Christ's sake.
That's the worst thing that you can muster?
Really?
C'mon now... I'm sure you can do better than that!
reply to post by Partygirl
Why is it wrong? Men where expected to be the main earners in the family and women needed to be at home washing and taking care of the kids. Then there was the fight for 'womens rights' and stop making women 'slaves' to the household.
They got there wish and are now treated as EQUALS to men. So women can work, and even be the main earner in the family. Many men choose to be at home taking care of the kids. We don't live in the middle ages anymore, times change and women where fighting hard to get the same treatment as men.
And now that they do it's bad for men? Nah not really it's always up to the partners that choose the rolls in there families, who raises the kids and takes care around the house and who goes out to earn a living.
Why view this so black and white like the article discribes? i'm a man and i make more money then my GF, yet she works fulltime as well. Maybe someday the tides are turned and she will earn more, not matter the outcome i honestly don't care. As long as the bills get payed it's fine with me.
The men over women is out-dated, people writing articles like that have no imagination to write meaningfull articles.
Why is it wrong? Men where expected to be the main earners in the family and women needed to be at home washing and taking care of the kids. Then there was the fight for 'womens rights' and stop making women 'slaves' to the household.
They got there wish and are now treated as EQUALS to men. So women can work, and even be the main earner in the family. Many men choose to be at home taking care of the kids. We don't live in the middle ages anymore, times change and women where fighting hard to get the same treatment as men.
And now that they do it's bad for men? Nah not really it's always up to the partners that choose the rolls in there families, who raises the kids and takes care around the house and who goes out to earn a living.
Why view this so black and white like the article discribes? i'm a man and i make more money then my GF, yet she works fulltime as well. Maybe someday the tides are turned and she will earn more, not matter the outcome i honestly don't care. As long as the bills get payed it's fine with me.
The men over women is out-dated, people writing articles like that have no imagination to write meaningfull articles.
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