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I am not Trinitarian, but my denomination, has nothing to do as to how i behave. My denomination, if you want to know is Greek Orthodox, since i am a Greek.
However, generally speaking, Gnosticism taught that salvation is achieved through special knowledge (gnosis). This knowledge usually dealt with the individual's relationship to the transcendent Beings/Teachers
I never knew Socrates personally either. Does that mean when i am writing about Socrates i am writing lies? There are many ways to determine if my writings about Socrates are true or not. Hence the whole debate.
All the scripture is "Inspired" not just Paul´s my friend.
The thing that you seem to ignore, is that Jesus never denied His divinity. When He says i and the father are one, He is meaning exactly that.
If he wasn´t divine, He wouldn´t been able to forgive sins for example, He wouldn´t been able to heal the sick, He wouldn´t been able to raise the dead(i.e. Lazarus) etc. In other words Jesus was God in flesh. Fully divine and fully human.
The word "trinity" , is a term used to denote, that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity. Each has a will, loves, and says "I" and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.
That´s the Gnostic teaching, that you are saved by special knowledge(gnosis), which i disagree my friend.
Isn´t that the same thing that the serpent said? "..Ye shall not surely die."
Do you actually believe that a Loving Father wouldn´t give the gift of salvation freely to everyone? Remember Jesus came to do His Fathers will not His own will. So that those who believe in Him can have eternal life.
That´s true my friend. That´s why i am also doing my own study.
You mean whatever individual god he was before the incarnation, right?
In other words Jesus was God in flesh.
You are just explaining the Trinity Doctrine, but don't believe it yourself, right?
Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.
See this is where we are at a disagreement, Inspired by who? IF you say God, i will show you passages that prove otherwise...
in my opinion the rest of the bible is useless...
Though i will also say that I and My Father are one as well... and you and the Father are also one...
Again i disagree, that does not mean he was God... though as i've said, i do not deny his divinity.
Well first i don't put any stock in Genesis, the book is flawed...
Secondly, i don't deal with the silly stories of a talking snake either... or Adam and Eve... Both of which are fairy tales... i chose to deal with the reality of the book.
Yes i truely believe that a loving Father would give the gift of salvation to all of his children, not just the ones who "believe" something specific...
but the flaw is that the "gift" is given to everyone regardless of what they believe...
Do you actually believe that a Loving Father wouldn´t give the gift of salvation freely to everyone? Remember Jesus came to do His Fathers will not His own will. So that those who believe in Him can have eternal life.
Do yourself a favor and step outside of the confines of the bible in your studies...
The lessons of Jesus can be found in many scriptures...
Believe what you "feel" is truth...
You mean whatever individual god he was before the incarnation, right?
You are just explaining the Trinity Doctrine, but don't believe it yourself, right?
I believe in a trinity but not in "the Trinity Doctrine". I am an Arian.
Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by jmdewey60
I mean the word was made flesh.
You mean whatever individual god he was before the incarnation, right?I do believe in the Trinity. Do you believe the Trinity Doctrine? Simple yes or no will do.
You are just explaining the Trinity Doctrine, but don't believe it yourself, right?
The writers of the scripture were inspired, by God and not that God wrote the Bible as you try to imply.
That´s true. Me and my Father are also one, but we are humans, we have human nature.
Then answer me this question please: What is the difference between God´s Divinity and Jesus Divinity?
The book of Genesis is not a science textbook my friend. The first book of Genesis simply convey the message that God is the Creator, as revealed through the six acts of creation. And not how God created the cosmos, because it´s impossible to comprehend how and by what means He created the cosmos.
The second book of Genesis is much deeper that talking snakes and trees.
Yes i truely believe that a loving Father would give the gift of salvation to all of his children, not just the ones who "believe" something specific...
If you believe that, then why you stated on your previous post :
but the flaw is that the "gift" is given to everyone regardless of what they believe...
In which i answered :
Do you actually believe that a Loving Father wouldn´t give the gift of salvation freely to everyone? Remember Jesus came to do His Fathers will not His own will. So that those who believe in Him can have eternal life.
Either i have misread your post, or you have mine.
I have done that my friend and still doing it. But none of the other philosophies and scriptures "felt" as truth to me.
The lessons of Jesus can be found in many scriptures...
Then why you have chosen Jesus and not Buddha? What so special about Jesus, since as you said Jesus lessons can be found in many scriptures.
That i do my friend. And thank you for your kind replies to my posts.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Blarneystoner
First off Jesus did not speak a single word in Isaiah... So that would make your statement of Him conferming that he is God.... incorrect.
Isaiah 61:2--"To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,(Jesus stopped here,even-though there is a comma in Isaiah)" AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD; TO COMFORT ALL THAT MOURN".
Have you ever translated Hebrew?
Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60
yes but it is what the Hebrew is closer to.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
Have you ever translated Hebrew?
Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60
yes but it is what the Hebrew is closer to.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
The point is, nothing, because you don't know about how problematic biblical Hebrew is.
We don't know if the Masoretic text is closer. The Greek is older.
You are wrong. Look at a decent commentary and you see where Jesus skipped all over the place to cherry pick a specific story which he thought explained his mission.
The fact that he used part of a single verse does not mean he cared about even the rest of that verse. He was just doing the same thing a lot of people do here on ATS in their posts where they post 20 disjointed verses with a common theme.
Despite what some people think on this sub-forum, it is good to have some knowledge about the Bible so you don't waste your time on dead ends.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by JB1234
The clue is in verse 7.
..... it is calling a class of people witnesses to Jehovah..
The English translation does not bring it out clearly. It just says, Made.
This is why you should read the Septuagint and look at the Greek.
κατεσκεύασα, kataskeuazō comes from a word that means, fully equipped.
Look for it in the NT, and you find it in what John the Baptist did, to prepare a people for a specific purpose.
Luke 1: 17
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Could that be an inference to there being made people to be witnesses of the arrival of Jesus in his campaign?
It uses the exact same word as in
Isaiah 43: 7
everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.
It does not make sense to me to translate it as, made, when there is already that implied in two other words in the verse, created, and, formed.edit on 21-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)