The Bible: A book for all types

Well, I follow Catholicism, but I'm pretty orthodox compared to most Catholics. There are many liberal Catholics.

Again, I lose nothing if I was right, because there would be no heaven or hell, but if, even after experiencing the things I experienced, was wrong, then I really will have no excuse before God. Look up invisible stigmata: there are miracles that can't be perceived by others. Don't call a work of God the work of the Devil, because then the devil sent me to Jesus, and a kingdom divided cannot stand.

Regarding validation: it certainly validated Christianity to me.

For me and my House we Believe that the Lord Jesus is the Creator,

He did it around 6000 years ago in Six days.

He destroyed all of his creation with a global flood, which is totally evident in the sedimentary rock, geological features and the massive fossils, coal fields, methane deposits and oil deposits.

We believe there is not a single error anywhere in the Bible. There be portions that we do not understand yet but will be shown to those who seek him as this is what he likes and that is one of the rewards is to know what he is doing or meant.

Either the Bible is 100% true or completely false.

Really though either one accepts that Jesus is God and that he is all powerful able to have men dictate is word upon paper and keep it accurate for the ages to see and discover the meaning that the writers did not even comprehend.

Or one just keeps a hardened heart and stiff neck to the visible evidence that declares God, the conscience evidence that speaks of God, the historical evidence that declares the statements in the Bible as true.

May the Lord Jesus Bless you with everything you need.

reply to post by TurkeyTots

You stated,
Do we really need "God" to know that killing, stealing, cheating, and otherwise destroying our fellow peoples is wrong?

It has been stated by many that do not accept that there is a God that morals are subjective.

There are many that believe that large corporations are evil, so if they work for them and they take small objects on a regular basis it is not wrong as the evil corporation steals from its customers and employees by under pay.
Yet it is stealing.

Many believe that stabbing someone to death is wrong and is killing,...................Yet going to an abortion clinic is ok as raising that child is to much responsibility. Though it is still murder.

I could Go on, one who does not believe thinks that if most are doing it, then it is acceptable.

Democracy at its best 51% can legalize murder.

reply to post by Xaberz

You stated,
Anywho, as for do I think the same of the Bible as when I was a kid. Heck no! I'm not even sure Jesus rose from the dead. I'm very skeptical now. It's weird. I used to believe in miracles, but now they seem so farfetched. Why is that? Couldn't a holy person heal wounds and restore flesh? I have no idea...I know for a fact that they can't anymore, so I'm going by rational thought.

First off most churches do not worship as they did in the Book of Acts, this is how church is supposed to be.
Secondly Jesus himself said that we would perform miracles greater then what he did.

I have seen people healed of cancer, that doctors do not know how it disappeared, and that was before they started treatment.

As for the you know for a fact statement that is pretty bold are you a god and know everyone and everything on the planet.

I have meet those who have been places when miracles as you have stated happen..

Also research en.wikipedia.org... Azusa street had many miracles that you do not believe happen anymore.

This bit

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Jesus himself said that we would perform miracles greater then what he did.

When will we do these miracles ?

And

What kinds of miracles are we talking about?

reply to post by racasan


The miracles Christ performed were mostly of a temporary nature. The miracles that his true disciples perform mostly affect the eternal destiny of the recipients, which is why he referred to them as greater.

What he was referring to was the explosion of faith in him throughout the entire world.

(Typically his humility was such, that it only brought him joy to see others reap the harvest.)

For in this case the saying is true: 'One sows and another reaps. I sent you to reap what you didn't labor for; others have labored, and you have benefited from their labor.

John 4:37-38

reply to post by pause4thought



If I’m reading you right – you are saying horrors such as the inquisition and the burning of un-believers and the forced conversion of people in Europe during the dark ages is miraculous

I think you and I have different ideas of what a miracle is

reply to post by racasan


I think you and I have different ideas of what believers are.

reply to post by racasan


Healing of all kinds physical, mental and spiritual.

Those who do not look can not see, those who do not listen can not here.

One will not see or here much about these miracles on the TV, radio, or newspaper.

Look to the believers in Christ and one can see and hear their testimonies.

I am glad you brought up a man such as Hitler in attempt to prove your point against atheism and your perception of what you must no doubt consider what would be the moral waste land that would exist where there is no god to govern with absolutes. Hitler was in fact a Christian. A catholic to be precise. So, already looking bad for you. Next, I would like to point out that your basis of how to choose morality is not only putting words in my mouth but completely disconnected from any form of reality or common sense. No, the way to achieve morality without an absolute god would NOT be to follow the ONE man with the most power. Your just pulling out a god from your framework and pushing in a human. Anyone would tell you that's stupid. As far as I can tell, ethics and morality are a combination of concepts with a few governing rules. That goes for “Christian ethics” as well. For instance, if I had to answer your proposition of how to find the moral “right” without the use of a god, I would have to say LOOSELY that the best means to that end is to choose the path of doing the greatest good for the largest amount of people. Naturally, this governing rule has it's limitations and it can be painted into a corner. But it is a starting point, and irrefutably workable in a “godless” universe.

Now, luckily for you I am indeed NOT saying that your “miracle” is the work of the Devil. Seems that you have forgotten my complete dismissal of the Bible in my original reply to your question of what the Bible is to me. I do not believe in pretend good guys and I do not believe in pretend bad guys. I do not, in anyway, think that what you have experienced is of supernatural means in the slightest.

Let me ask you this, if you could suspend your “faith” for a moment what, if any explanation, could you give of the experience you had? Without some “space magic” might one not consider that perhaps they have been either fooled (in this case by your own mind) or that you were mistaken all together and that there may have been perhaps a medical/neurological explanation for the sensation you experienced?

According to your account you where looking for a sign. It was only a matter of time before SOMETHING lined up. I can tell you of countless occasions where when someone wanted something bad enough they either found exactly what the were looking for where it didn't even exist OR their minds played some dastardly tricks on them and they got their irrefutable proof anyway. You already had a preconceived notion of what you where standing in line for. You can tell me that you where an atheist before today but based on your own account you were NOT one at the time of your experience. Thusly, taking the air out of your sails concerning your attempt to pose yourself as an unbiased case.

I propose to you this. We as a species can find absolutely anything. If we are looking for it, we can find it, no matter how absurd and ridiculous. From faces in trees, to seeing the Virgin Mary in a piece of toast, we can “see” signs in just about everything that we encounter. We can find what we believe are the cosmic origins of the universe or the engine of our human awareness. If we really, really want we can come up with a whole multitude of complex, cohesive and compelling arguments for the “hows” and “whys” that encompass us daily. But just because something makes sense doesn't make it true. The fundamentalist view (within the context of the understanding that the Bible is true) makes the most sense and has the least amount of theological discrepancies. Newton's laws of thermodynamics also in turn, make a lot of sense. So does a materialists, naturalists, or anti-theists point of view. (With their assumptions as context.)

reply to post by 547000


So everyone makes sense, how do we avoid pluralism? Well, I can only speak for myself when I say, the best and most moral way to solve the dilemma of which road of thought to follow, is by taking the path that does the most good for the most people. “Narrow is the way unto salvation, but broad is the road that leadeth to destruction.” Narrow mindedness is built into faith as one of it's pillars. Send people to Hell in the name of your truth. I choose to follow that way which is damning of none. The way that if proven wrong on this point or that, doesn't immediately take up arms to fight and kill in the name of a deity (Instead it merely re-evaluates a new fact in context of everything known and fits it in. No harm, no foul.). I choose the way that doesn't make one ostracize one's own family in the name of not being “unequally yoked with unbelievers”. I chose that way which unites humanity in praise of our best qualities and asks each one of us to take responsibility for our own destiny and gives us the limited and precious gift of the here and now. I chose that way which does not condemn to eternal fire those whom with which I disagree. I chose the way of TRUE human love. Does this mean that when I die I just return to dust? Yes. Do I like that? Not one bit. But not liking something is no reason to ignore it. That's childish. I do not like theism but that's not why I refute it. I refute it because it is simply not based in reality.

My only hope is you will see that your mind has played a dubious trick on you. You where living in fear and could not accept your inevitable return to the womb of this precious plant which bore you and asked nothing in return. The sooner you let go of this mental prison you impose upon yourself (for whatever guilty reason) and cease to ask forgiveness of heaven and begin to ask forgiveness from yourself and your brothers and sisters, the sooner you will return to us and our humanity in all it's fullness.

Do I think you will ever change your mind? Most likely not. At least not for the next twenty years after which you will begin to see how your “faith” has castrated your innate “spiritual” strength and has rendered your humanity sterile. My biggest hope is that anyone who may happen upon this thread, who may be sitting on the fence, gets to read an accurate, sober, natural, commons sense, refute to the presumptions placed through out this thread. If one thing, just one thing, in the Bible is wrong then it is ALL wrong. And there is, with out question, at least ONE fault in it's pages. How can I say this? It's own self-proclamations that damn it to such a judgement.

Again I say, not only is the bible false, it is packed full of ideas that stifle our humanity and subjugate us to a supernatural totalitarian regime. But it has the right to exist. Humanity must simply find a way to evolve above it's foolishness and put it on the shelf next to Mother Goose and Benjamin Bunny.

Christians don't actually worship their God, they worship their book about God. I promise you, I've seen people defend the Bible, (with all it's inaccuracies, contradictions, and absurdities), ten times faster, and with much more fervor than they ever would defend their own God. Their book (written, complied and selected by humans) is way more sacred to Christians than Christ ever was.

Very strange.

Originally posted by racasan

This bit

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Jesus himself said that we would perform miracles greater then what he did.

When will we do these miracles ?

And

What kinds of miracles are we talking about?

I think that verse is referring to miracles greater in quantity, not quality.

OP, my story is somewhat similar to yours except I went from atheist to Orthodox back to atheist (more or less).

I tended to use the Bible more like a ouija board. I would have some question in mind and randomly flip for an answer that I liked. Then I would say "wow the Holy Spirit told me just what I wanted to hear". I always liked the history books like Deuteronomy, Joshua, and Judges, because they had fun stories. The theological parts of the Bible turned me off.