Knesset to vote on annexing West Bank

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

Your reporter is funny.

Ethnic cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.

Now then, on to some facts.





Populations:

West Bank -

(1970)
Arabs - 677k
Jews - >1k

(2003)

Arabs - 2.3m
Jews - 219k


Gaza -

(1970)
Arabs - 368k
Jews - >1k

(2003)
Arabs - 1.33m
Jews - 243k


Jerusalem -

(1970)
Arabs - 1.04m
Jews - 2.58m

(2003)
Arabs - 5.13m
Jews - 5.27m

Israel is doing the ethnic cleansing thing, but hiding it so well that the Arab population doubles every 20 years, I guess.

Well said. The facts support the truth while ignorance breeds contempt.

Israel is also an Apartheid state don't you know?

Just ask the 1.5 million Arab Israeli citizens that are a vibrant part of the community.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Palestinians know they will never get all of Palestine back. They just want the right to exist and function as a country. Sanctions, blockades, settlement expansion are not what they want. They know violence will only bring forward more oppression. They even try the peaceful approach and look what Israel doeskin return. They try and annex the West Bank. Tell me who is moving backwards here.

But there are some Palestinians who do want it all. They are a minority, but a laud one. Just as in Israel there are its own loud minorities ,and when they representatives present a suggestion to annex West Bank to voting according to the Israeli law ,it will be voted upon , and it will not be accepted. This is not government decision , it is not a law. It is just a proposition in Knesset. From a member of leading coalition party , Likud. But still it is just a proposition and it will be voted against. Mark my words.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


I agree, Israel is an Apartheid state for certain. The Arabs must go through checkpoints just like the Africans did in South Africa. Israel imprisons whole Arab neighborhoods behind walls just like Apartheid South Africa did to the Africans. At least South Africa admitted to having nukes and eventually disarmed and let IAEA in for inspections. Israel is WORSE than apartheid South Africa by a long shot.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed



So you have no straight answer then?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Humanity4Ever

 

I agree, Israel is an Apartheid state for certain.

. . .

Oh, bull corn.

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

--One and a half million Arabs live in Israel, constituting about 20 percent of that country's population. They have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens. They can vote, and they do. They can serve in the Israeli parliament, and they do. They can own property and businesses and work in professions alongside other Israelis, and they do. They can be judges, and they are. Here's one telling example: it was an Arab judge on Israel's Supreme Court who sentenced the former president of Israel -- a Jew -- to jail on a rape charge.

Some other examples of Arabs in Israeli life: Reda Mansour was the youngest ambassador in Israel's history, and is now Consul General at Israel's Atlanta Consulate; Walid Badir is an international soccer star on Israel's national team and captain of one of Tel Aviv's major teams; Rana Raslan is a former Miss Israel; Ishmael Khaldi was until recently the deputy consul of Israel in San Francisco; Khaled Abu Toameh is a major journalist with the Jerusalem Post; Ghaleb Majadele was until recently a Minister in the Israeli Government. They are all Israeli Arabs. Not one is a Jew.

Arabs in Israel live freer lives than Arabs living anywhere in the Arab world. No Arab in any Arab country has the civil rights and personal liberty that Arabs in Israel enjoy. Source--


Sounds apartheid to me

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I'm not referring to the check points near Gaza and the West Bank which are a necessary deterrent to frequent terrorist attacks. I'm referring to the substantial Arab community within the state of Israel itself. With all due respect, those of you who refer to Israel as an Apartheid state have no basis for your assumptions.

I have been to Israel many times. I have family there, and my wife was born and raised there. I know for a fact that Muslim, Christian, and Jewish neigborhoods in Israel are not segregated whatsoever. I have personally visited these areas. I have cousins that have close friends and business associates who are Israeli Arabs. Arab Israelis enjoy a higher standard of living than Arabs living in muslim countries. Many Arab Israelis are affluent, hold prominent political positions, serve in the IDF, play for the national soccer team, and they proudly support Israel. Many Arab Israelis have also been killed by Palestinian militants in recent years as a result of indiscriminate terrorist attacks.

Get your facts straight.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

Bingo!

That sums up Israel pretty well. Thank you for helping prove my point. It's funny how you help contradict your side of the debate while trying trying to disprove mine. Nothing else to say about that, you said it all for me.

Star for you

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I can't help but wonder if there is not something "a little on the wrong side" of annexing a part of an established state into another country.

I have a feeling such actions may be frowned upon by others in the international community.

Would this not be much like the U S annexing a part, or all, of Canada into the U S ?

reply to post by hdutton


Israel can justify their actions by playing the victim. It works well for them too. Most world powers turn a blind eye to Israeli human rights violations. They rarely criticize them, and if they do it is only a publicity stunt. Obama even let Netanyahu lecture him in the whitehouse. Obama sat there and took it with his tail between his legs while the head of Israel belittled him in his own home. If that doesn't scream female dog, nothing does.

Public perception of this whole situation is tainted from decades of propaganda handed down through two generations. I fear it is too late for any good to ever come out of this.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

Bingo!

That sums up Israel pretty well. Thank you for helping prove my point. It's funny how you help contradict your side of the debate while trying trying to disprove mine. Nothing else to say about that, you said it all for me.

Star for you

I found the definition for you.

Now please use examples based in fact that applies this definition to Israel.

Or are you going to skirt this one as well, and claim that you are right without actually giving any evidence of your claims?

Originally posted by hdutton
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I can't help but wonder if there is not something "a little on the wrong side" of annexing a part of an established state into another country.

I have a feeling such actions may be frowned upon by others in the international community.

Would this not be much like the U S annexing a part, or all, of Canada into the U S ?

Since the other guy could not answer the question, I will propose it to you.

What country does the land belong to?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Now please use examples based in fact that applies this definition to Israel.

Sure, lets use the definition you provided.

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

That whole definition explains modern day Israel so well that I could not define it any better. Thanks again by the way

I have answered all your questions and yet you have managed to avoid all of mine and not provide any answers at all. Let me step it up a notch. How about you tell me how your own definition of Apartheid does not apply to Israel. The post that provided the definition of examples that did not exclude Israel from being an Apartheid state, in fact it strengthens my argument. You are doing all the work for me. I really appreciate it. How about you give me a factual reason why Israel should not be considered an Apartheid state. I have already provided multiple reasons why they are to another member. Please reread your definition before you answer.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

Now please use examples based in fact that applies this definition to Israel.

Sure, lets use the definition you provided.

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

That whole definition explains modern day Israel so well that I could not define it any better. Thanks again by the way

I have answered all your questions and yet you have managed to avoid all of mine and not provide any answers at all. Let me step it up a notch. How about you tell me how your own definition of Apartheid does not apply to Israel. The post that provided the definition of examples that did not exclude Israel from being an Apartheid state, in fact it strengthens my argument. You are doing all the work for me. I really appreciate it. How about you give me a factual reason why Israel should not be considered an Apartheid state. I have already provided multiple reasons why they are to another member. Please reread your definition before you answer.

More beating around the bush. I grow tired of your ignorance.

Specific examples, please. Otherwise you are making false claims.

Modern day Israel is not an example. It is a generalization.

What EXACTLY in modern day Israel makes them apartheid? You made the claim, so you should be able to give me some cold hard POINTED evidence based in fact.

Why are you completely unable to stick to the facts and get specific?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
How about you give me a factual reason why Israel should not be considered an Apartheid state.

You have been provided with ample factual evidence to disprove your false assumptions by myself and others. All Israeli citizens, regardless of their religious affiliation, are privy to the same resources and opportunities in the pursuit of happiness.

for anyone who remembers the first stage of ww3,,

when the nation of Israel, declared itself a NATION,

and thrown too the EUROPEAN powers,
too do with as they say fit,,
that was the British Stance,
they were not expected too last 24-48 hrs,,
by the best WAR 2 minds available at that time,,
including,
Eisenhour,
Patten,
Montgomery,
Degaull
Zookov
Stalin
Churchill,
The Arab League,, united for the first time,, too fight the Nazi,,
now turned there attention on the next enemy,,
Isreal.
they were not expected too last 24-48 hrs,,
that is real HISTORY

and when they reached and then had CONTROL of the SUEZ,
in ISREAL power,,
too do with as they wished,, and RUSSIA,
said UNCLE.

what did they do,, ISREAL,,
they used the SUEZ as a condition between, themselves and the ARAB LEAGUE,
that they would give it all back up too,, a certain point.

and so the U.N succesfully stopped the occupation of the SUEZ.
,,too be continued.

It seems, Lemon.Fresh, that a simple analogy to your assertion that Israel owns the land, would also apply if I were to turn up one day, march you and any family members off your property at gunpoint - maybe shoot someone just to drive home the point of new ownership - and declare myself owner.
Nothing the local cops can do about it as I have declared that I now own the property. Try and take it back and I'll shoot you in the street and be confident in my justification. After all, I'd have paid off the cops and mayor to support me in my victimhood state of regretful self defence!

See, simply declaring that Israel owns the land sidesteps, or even ignores, how they got it in the first place, which was through terrorism and murder.

Oh, and the figures you posted showing the increased Arab population in some areas..... ever wonder where all those displaced Palestinians went (those that weren't murdered)? They didn't just disappear - much to the annoyance of the Israelis - they just moved into ever larger enclaves as their land was stolen from under them.

Corruption Exposed's evasive answers reminded of this video:

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

Now please use examples based in fact that applies this definition to Israel.

Sure, lets use the definition you provided.

Crime of Apartheid is crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

. . . How about you give me a factual reason why Israel should not be considered an Apartheid state. . . .

--One and a half million Arabs live in Israel, constituting about 20 percent of that country's population. They have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens. They can vote, and they do. They can serve in the Israeli parliament, and they do. They can own property and businesses and work in professions alongside other Israelis, and they do. They can be judges, and they are. Here's one telling example: it was an Arab judge on Israel's Supreme Court who sentenced the former president of Israel -- a Jew -- to jail on a rape charge.

Some other examples of Arabs in Israeli life: Reda Mansour was the youngest ambassador in Israel's history, and is now Consul General at Israel's Atlanta Consulate; Walid Badir is an international soccer star on Israel's national team and captain of one of Tel Aviv's major teams; Rana Raslan is a former Miss Israel; Ishmael Khaldi was until recently the deputy consul of Israel in San Francisco; Khaled Abu Toameh is a major journalist with the Jerusalem Post; Ghaleb Majadele was until recently a Minister in the Israeli Government. They are all Israeli Arabs. Not one is a Jew.

Arabs in Israel live freer lives than Arabs living anywhere in the Arab world. No Arab in any Arab country has the civil rights and personal liberty that Arabs in Israel enjoy. Source--


So given those FACTS, how does that make Israel apartheid?

reply to post by Humanity4Ever

You have been provided with ample factual evidence to disprove your false assumptions by myself and others.

To the contrary my friend. It is I who has provided factual evidence. You and Lemon have not provided one iota of factual evidence. Please feel free to correct me by quoting any factual evidence that you or Lemon has provided in this thread. I am confident that you cannot do this because it is a FACT that there has not been any yet. I will patiently standby and wait for you to prove me wrong. It might be a long wait.

They already interfere with their communications and supplies that enter into West bank and gaza, so Israel is already governing those areas, and building homes is just further proof. Israel must look what America looked like in the 1800's when they kicked the Native Americans off the land. It's unfortunate and should be stopped.