Parents of ATS, I really need your opinions! Was innocence taken away by choice of book from teacher

This is one of those moments when you say.....this is what is wrong in the world. Obviously we can't change the world but would they ever have allowed that book in the 50's? There were a lot less early teen pregnancies when we didn't just accept it. Why should we just roll over and except it now? We don't always have to be our children's friends we need to be their parents also. I would have told my child that only adults have sex. Period. When and if she has questions she can come to me and ask and if I feel they are appropriate I will answer them. Let her know that you think the school is wrong in teaching little girls things that grown ups do. Looks like it is time to have the birds and bees conversation, but I would reiterate that sex is for adults because of the many consequences. My girls are 5 and 3, I dread the day.

To be honest, it sickens me when parents refuse to discuss things like this with their children, instead pretending they don't exist. If you want your daughter to be mature and responsible, then explain to her in a mature way what these things are when she asks. I'm sure she's intelligent enough to understand. When you don't explain these to her, she is more likely to become confused and listen to her peers instead.

The world exists, and yes, you have to live in it.

reply to post by boaby_phet


10-11, this is the age that children begin to explore such topics, but that's the keyword: begin.

I don't think this person is saying that they're going to stick their kid in a plastic bubble until she's 18, but maybe wanting to get the birds and the bees talk thoroughly out of the way before the kid starts analyzing why Johnny won't screw Suzie isn't such a kookie thing.

I think people on here telling you not to worry - she was bound to hear this stuff anyway, is just sick. Dont listen to them. Wanting a child to not be introduced to drugs and sex at ten years old is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, you should be very proud of yourself that she doesnt already know what these things are!! When I was ten I had no clue what they were, and I turned out great. Not all the girls iI went to school with fared so well.......
The fact is, it is not up to the school to decide when children are ready for these topics. It isnt the school's job to decide the best way to introduce these topics to the children. At the very least, it would have been nice if the school could have given you a reading list well in advance so you could do your own research prior to her having been given the book. Or a list of the problems in the book, giving you ample time to bring these topics up with your daughter if you chose to.
I am tryingt o raise my daughter like you as well, even though it means that the car radio has to stay off, the tv never shows anything questionable, and the internet is guarded like fort knox. Some would say I overdo it, but she isnt their child. She is mine, and I am hell bent on making sure she does not end up on drugs, BFF's with a bunch of drug using teens, having sex before she graduates. When she is ready to be introduced to the real world, I will do it myself, not letting some book do it for me.
Oh and I hope she brings the test home, so you have proof of the innappripriateness of the test when you march in to their board and demand the teacher receive formal reprimand. I bet if you spoke to the other parents you might have a following. Many of them might not even be aware of the unsuitability of the book, if their children do not talk about it.
power to you. Shame on those who think a young girls innocence is not worth protecting for as long as possible.

reply to post by WeBrooklyn


When I was ten, I was reading the morning newspapers before school and watching the nightly news. The word "pornography" was probably in my vocabulary-- although understood as little more than "dirty pictures" and "blue movies".

"Pot" as in marijuana, certainly was known-- a term probably used on almost all the detective shows that were on TV in the day (e.g., Mod Squad; Rockford Files), and adding "Primo" was an obvious idiom to understand. In fact, the police did a demonstration in my class when I was eleven-- burning hemp rope so we would know the smell, and showing us marijuana cigarettes and such. About half of the class already knew.

Also, by age ten (that was 1970 for me) from older kids in the neighborhood, from TV, from even old movies and from life in general, sexual promiscuity was openly discussed-- albeit, usually in thinly veiled terms.

The flip side of that was the ultra-sheltered kid in my sophomore high school class reading aloud from the Scarlet Letter. He had the word, "whore" and did not know how to pronounce it. The poor kid was so embarrassed. Funny aside: Someone in class said "The only thing he reads is the Bible" and a bunch answered, "The word 'whore' is in the the Bible!"

Granted, I had reason to know much about how evil the world is long before age ten; but knowing the truth has served me well. My biggest complaint about being sheltered is that my parents never told me to guard my heart. Knowing about pot, pornography and sexual promiscuity did not soften that life-lesson's blow, at all.

I understand your sentiment. I had a scary-smart son. When he was six, he came home with a Time-Life book on World War II from the school library. I had no idea it had pictures of the bodies stacked up from the Holocaust. My dear son came into my home-office and was very upset.
"Is this true? Dad, did this really happen?"
I looked and read and my heart went cold.

I told him it was true and that we needed to talk. We talked at length. He headed back to his room, and I worried so much until he said, "I hate the Nazis! I am glad we went to war with them!" He was angry. He was outraged. It was not the reaction I had expected-- but it was a very appropriate reaction.

The most important I can think of to advise, both having been a parent, and a child (really, I once was!) is that knowledge is the greatest protection-- the only one I trust. No one protected me from the evil of the world-- as much as my parents may have wanted to-- and pretending that evil did not exist was one of the most unjust things ever done to me. Innocence is highly overrated-- and much better it be surrendered willingly and knowingly than have have taken from you brutally.

I see concerned and sheltering parents here, and that is the problem...sheltering. As a parent, I believe that you have to be proactive to counter what children are being exposed to.

By the time I was eight, I was hunting and fishing...by myself, though I did tell the folks where I was going. I was taught to skin/debone what I caught.

I was up at 4am to help milk the cows.

By the age of 10, I was driving tractors in the fields. And knew how to do the laundry as well as cook supper.

I knew all about sex by that age because I saw the animals...doing it... and asked what are they doing? And was told in a straight up manner. All questions asked were answered in this way.

My cousin was ran over by a tractor one summer and when we visited him in the hospital, my Uncle looked at me and said, "This is what happens when you don't pay attention." Lesson learned.

The only thing that my family didn't teach about were drugs...but that was because they were to busy to do them... Hence they weren't exposed.

I'm the only male child in my family and all my sisters were raised in the same manner.

You can allow kids to be kids, but you have to teach them, guide them, provide discipline, give them morals, ethics as well.

Not easy being a parent, but the rewards are great.

reply to post by WeBrooklyn


Apparently the teacher made a leap here - this is a book for teenagers...looks like Center for Children's Books, whoever they are, liked it.

*Starred Review* Though there’s plenty of weight in the plot, this isn’t a book about events so much as human dynamics, and characterization is vivid and exquisite. Katie is achingly real, and her relationship with her ferocious, guarded, and superbly faithful roommate, Mazzie, is one of the most tender and intimate platonic friendships in YA lit….Since readers make the journey with Katie, they’ll sympathize with her choices and failures, and they’ll be glad to see, in the closing epilogue from ten years on, that she learns to find her own stability while remaining connected to Will. Along the way to that hard-fought end, they’ll find the boarding-school experience enviable, the family situation poignant, and Katie a protagonist they’ll understand, support, and forgive. —The Bulletin of the Center for Children’s Books, starred review

Breathless

CJ

reply to post by WeBrooklyn


you are completly right to be out raged. i have a ten yr old myself an let me tell you if a book like that would be brought in my house it would be promtly burn regaurdless if it was a school assignment. THIS is what is wrong with the world. when u take out the classics an insert this crud. with schools having this crud taught any one with eyes can see why teen pregnancy is on the rise

Originally posted by HideNASecret
reply to post by WeBrooklyn

 

you are completly right to be out raged. i have a ten yr old myself an let me tell you if a book like that would be brought in my house it would be promtly burn regaurdless if it was a school assignment. THIS is what is wrong with the world. when u take out the classics an insert this crud. with schools having this crud taught any one with eyes can see why teen pregnancy is on the rise

The book itself appears to have received good reviews. The subject matter appears to be too adult for a ten year old. Don't burn the book - have you read it? Is it really "crud"? What "classics" do ten year old read?

CJ

Outrageous.

I guess there isn't sufficient literature available for 10 year olds that doesn't contain drug and sex references, then? The school has no business introducing topics like that at that age.

Here's the irony - the school can make a unilateral decision about giving 10 year olds books containing drug and sex references, but let a kid even look like they might be saying a prayer, and the roof caves in.

And we wonder why public schools, and society in general are deteriorating at an accelerating rate.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


okay i see ur point burning the book is the wrong message this isnt the 1600's. However when i said classics i ment stuff like tom sawyer, sounder. I wasn't talking shakespeare lol. BUT think about it if a teacher choose the book an also read aloud from it what does that say about our education system. Kids grow up to fast these days should a school incourage that to 10yrs. i think not

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by HideNASecret
reply to post by WeBrooklyn

 

you are completly right to be out raged. i have a ten yr old myself an let me tell you if a book like that would be brought in my house it would be promtly burn regaurdless if it was a school assignment. THIS is what is wrong with the world. when u take out the classics an insert this crud. with schools having this crud taught any one with eyes can see why teen pregnancy is on the rise

The book itself appears to have received good reviews. The subject matter appears to be too adult for a ten year old. Don't burn the book - have you read it? Is it really "crud"? What "classics" do ten year old read?

CJ

also that book my have great reviews heck they could make into an oscar winning movie for all i care,but when a teacher knowingly puts that in the hands of children who prob still go home an play with dolls/cars' that is when it becomes crud

reply to post by WeBrooklyn


Kids grow up fast. If she doesn't already know about it, she will soon as someone else stated.

First off, keeping her in the dark will only harm her in the long run. I was sheltered, and people take full advantage of it. Trust me.

The better the communication, teh more she trusts you, the more open the conversation will be.

She can know these things and still be innocent. Your setting her up for a hard fall otherwise.
And to be taken advantage of. And when you are the one who doesnt know, kids can be cruel.

By acting like it is a sin and its dirty, your only going to stunt her for life on it, or she will go the other way.

By ignoring her questions, you have shown her you don't trust her.

i think it depends on what sort of context these words were being used in, it might be that its a book warning of the dangers of drugs and sex

reply to post by nixie_nox

By acting like it is a sin and its dirty, your only going to stunt her for life on it, or she will go the other way. By ignoring her questions, you have shown her you don't trust her.

Not once did I say it was a sin or dirty. Also, I NEVER ignore my daughters questions. Please reread my concern here.

For the record, my daughter is not in a bubble, she knows about different things because of whatever which they came up. We have already skinned the surface on topics like Abortion, homosexuality, babies, govt etc. I will always answer questions and concerns when asked, when shes ready and she knows she can ask me anything anytime. We are very close and as soon as she saw the book referenced things that she knew was adult, she immediately brought it to my attention. I also never said she didnt know anything about sex, we have touched the birds and bees surface, but I dont have to throw everything at her at once and she sure as hell didnt have to know what pornography meant. Weed she knows about because the lowlifes in my neighborhood smoke in the street, in front of the building, out in the open and she smells it and asks. Im all for pot and I can easily tell her all about it and its benefits but I dont because the people she sees doing it are not proactive, and I rather explain that when she can have a better understanding of the whole concept.

She sees the difference between how I raise her and how girls her age in this neighborhood are because of our talks. But she shouldnt be reading books about young girls, smoking pot, and pornography all at once at 10.

Once again, no wonder girls are getting pregnant younger, having sex and experimenting with drugs younger...go figure

So I spoke to the teacher, and she seemed very sincere in her mistake. She explained that when she read outloud in class, her red flag was raised as she was reading the words.She said her class last year read the book, but they were 8th grade students and she allegedly forgot the story. She did tell me that she totally understands and my daughter doesnt have to finish reading the book, but I think that would set a bad example to not finish her task. She said she is going to do research for more age appropriate books as this is the first time doing book clubs with younger children and will give me a list every few weeks of upcoming reads so I can do my own research ahead of time. I thought that was a good response. But then I remembered the question on the quiz "why didnt X have sex with Y" and steam came out my ears again. But she was very apologetic (if I spelled that right) on the whole thing and really seemed very sincere and led me to believe that it was really an honest mistake that wont happen again.

If she was in 8th grade, I wouldnt have been upset. 8th grade at least is preteen but as a member guessed before...my daughter still plays with dolls, everything is still yucky and doesnt know the details on things we've talked about. Let her be a kid another year or two.

Double post but I'll add another comment...

Neighborhoods like this run rampant on ignorance. It is heartbreaking to see some of these kids my daughters age and know what their future holds. They are already on their own, not in a sense where they go outside and play all day with no supervision, but more like older teenagers that we can easily see are on the wrong path with the trouble they get into. The boys are hanging with "gangbangers" hanging in front of the store going "brrrrrraaaaat" you know the ones bloods do and they are in 4th and 5th grade! I walk past girls and they are talking about whos having sex with who in staircases!! And why?! No supervision...

I love my kid too much to mix her in with her "peers" over here. Obviously these days a kid knowing these things at such a young age isnt a good idea.

reply to post by chrissiel123

Shame on those who think a young girls innocence is not worth protecting for as long as possible.

While I agree with many of the points you make, is it not better to talk to a child about some of the realities that occur in life, in a way that they may understand situations, and meanings better, and understand how to make a good decisions.

A few members here, have made some good comments , about the dangers of not talking to your children about sex, and drugs..etc..and what are the wiser choices to make concerning these things.

So as other members have said, I would rather be the one, that breaks my child in gently , with wisdom, on the realities of life.. and that could very well be protecting her innocence, from those who manipulate her "lack" of knowledge , and delight in taking her innocence away.

I think you can start talking to a child about many things as early as when they begin school, and even before..if you really want to protect their innocence. You have to warn them , that there are kids and adults in this world that can and do take advantage of their innocence.

I'm just some idiot without a child, however, I was once a child.

I remember that among my peers, throughout my entire childhood, that whenever an adult conveyed that a topic was verboten - whether sex, alcohol or whatever - it became the sole conquest of us kids to leave no stone unturned until all relevant information about said topic was revealed. We didn't care how we found out. We didn't care who we had to ask. And if the information was offered, we didn't care if it was offered by a nine-legged alien with purple stripes. Ignorance of how our own bodies worked, or how we could expect them to work, brought such shame.

I'd rather have the girl read about porno's than star in them. You say she's gotten alot more mature since she started attending the charter school, maybe that's part of the reason why? Those school's must have a reason they're the best.