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The vedic civilization and evolution of society in India

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posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 11:52 PM
Funeral of King Dashrath

The Vedic society was different from today's society is very clear in the description of the funeral.

King Dashrath's body was kept in oil for several days, as no son was available for the funeral. The funeral was done next day from the day Bharat arrived from Rajagriha.

The body was removed from oil bath, and put in a decorated palanquin. Servants carried the palanquin through the main thoroughfare of Ayodhya, where grieving citizens distributed gold, silver and clothes to poor to show respect for the dead king. Please note that princes, priests, and political people followed the palanquin in chariots. The cremation was done near the river Saryu outside the city. Queens also reached the cremation after the 'yagna' was done, and walked around the funeral pyre. Then all people who participated in the funeral (including the queens) took a bath in the Saryu river.

Point 1: Queens participated in the funeral. Ladies are not allowed in modern Hindu society.
Point 2: Dead body was cleaned and dressed in home, not at the place of funeral.
Point 3: Princes did not carry the palanquin on own shoulders. It was carried by servants.

River water is for drinking and bathing. River water is considered sacred in Vedic society and unclean things (like dead body) is never put in flowing water.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:30 AM
Collection and burial of ashes

Ritvij Vashisht asked prince Bharat to go to cremation ground and collect the ashes, on the thirteenth day after cremation. The tradition is to collect the ashes in a earthenware pitcher and then bury the pitcher under open ground. A tree (or a garden) is planted on top. No mausoleum is built even for the greatest king.

There was no tradition of putting the ashes in flowing water in Vedic India.

There is no feast on the thirteenth day mentioned in Ramayan. The cremation is the last rites to be performed for a person, and no other ritual is needed after that.

The current customs

The Pundits have started temples, and various other customs to extract money from the ignorant. While a temple is a place of worship for the ignorant, it is a place of business for the Pundit.

But it is hard to blame the Brahmins for this. I have realized in deep thought that the problems started with Kings not doing their duty, and then public not donating to Brahmins. This impacted the education system badly as Brahmins were starved of funds.

Bad education system resulted in people becoming ignorant - and thus incapable of understanding Sanskrit books. This has given rise to false practices.

edit on 18-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:53 AM
The difficulty of understanding Sanskrit

Sanskit is a difficult language to master. There are many reasons for this -

1. The basic reason is the richness of vocablury due to very long time language has been in use.

2. Second reason is the way words can combine and complex grammatical rules. Meaning of same word can change based on context.

3. Third reason is many books are written as poems. In fact both Ramayan and Mahabharat are written as poems. Poems are easier to memorize, but hard to translate. Veda is largely poetry. Only a very small part of Veda is prose. The problem with poem is order of nouns and verbs is not followed. This alongwith complex word combination rules make it very hard to correctly interpret these books.

4. Even prose written in Upnishads does not make the job easy, as vocablury can be daunting - being very old books.

5. The continuation of education system was key to Vedic society. There has been a discontinuity since last 2600 years. So many people mis-interpret Vedic literature now. My advice is do not try to interpret old Sanskrit books, until you have mastered vedic grammar, vocablury etc. which can take many years in itself.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 04:07 AM
Hi Vedatruth.. Could you please tell me about the Garuda Puranam? I am interested to know about that. Now a days no one is allowed to read Garuda puran as they believe that Some bad thing will happen if you read in Home. Like Those who have lost both Parents are only allowed to read.. Is that true?

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 04:52 AM
reply to post by AncietSoul

There is no need to read Garud Purann even if both parents are expired.

"Pitra Yagna" is taking care of live parents. 'Anteyshti' or 'dah kirm sanskar' is the last ritual to be performed for a person. There is no other ritual remaining. 'Pret' means 'dead body' in Sanskrit, and cremation takes care of 'pret'.

The duties of a person as per Veda are agnihotra, yagna, daan, atithi satkar, etc.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:02 AM
The ghosts

The dead cannot become ghosts, as soul is not capable of taking any action in the physical world without the body. A soul cannot enter another person's body as well, as soul does not have the power to do so. Only God's power can make a soul enter into a body.

The ghosts seen by people are either pranks, or illusion. People engage in such things for personal benefit or fun.

Vedic people do not believe in ghosts.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:50 AM
Can dead ancestors receive offerings

No. Any flowers or food offered to a dead ancestor is meaningless.

The soul of a dead ancestor cannot come to receive the offering.

Soul is not free as many people think. The soul enters or exits a body under the power of God. The soul is free to do actions only when in human body. Soul does not have freedom of action while in other forms.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:24 AM

Originally posted by vedatruth
Can dead ancestors receive offerings

No. Any flowers or food offered to a dead ancestor is meaningless.

The soul of a dead ancestor cannot come to receive the offering.

Soul is not free as many people think. The soul enters or exits a body under the power of God. The soul is free to do actions only when in human body. Soul does not have freedom of action while in other forms.

I was wondering if you could expand on this, perhaps as it pertains to what "other forms" are, as well as what you mean by not having freedom of action.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 10:04 AM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

There are four types of life forms - plants and trees (sthavar), small animals that produce offspring from body secretions (swedaj), egg producing animals (andaj), and animals that produce live offspring (garbhaj).

All these life forms except humans do not have freedom of action.

So while cow is considered sacred, cow is still an animal, and does not have freedom of action.

A human can choose what he wants to do. Animals and plants cannot do that.

An animal eats, sleeps, procreates. An animal cannot do good deeds ('shubh karma') to improve its life.

The life forms of plants and animals are called 'bhog yoni' or lives spent in exhausting bad karmas. Only human form is the 'karm yoni' when soul performs actions and creates good or bad karmas.

Humans often spend entire lives accumulating vice. Some people sin so much that they cannot get back to human life even after hundred million years.

Veda says that humans should be scared of bad karma, as the result is truly horrible. If I kill an animal for food - the result is I have to take the form of that animal - and suffer all the pain, including getting killed for food.

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 12:59 AM
Ramayan AyodhyaKaand – Chapter 70 – Responsibilities of a King

Thus spoke Shri Rama to Bharat:

4. Do you ensure that Brahmin, Learned, Steadfast in dharm, radiant with ‘tapa’ Acharya of Ikshvaku clan (Vashisht) is well respected and cared for?

5. Do you ensure that mothers Kausalya, Sumitra and Kekayi are happy?

6. Do you ensure that Learned people, soldiers, servants, teachers, old people who are like parents, doctors, and brahmins are well cared for.

7. Do you ensure respect and comforts for Sudhanva who is expert of archery, politics and law.

8. Do you ensure your ministers are trustworthy, brave, knowledgeable of Veda, winners of ‘Indriya’, from established good families, capable of acting on indication.

9. The ministers who are experts of shashtra (sciences), and who dutifully protect the state secrets are the reason of success of a king.

10. Do you ensure that you do not sleep too much. Do you get up in the last ‘prahar’ of night and reflect on how to ensure sound financial and material conditions of your country.

(24 hour day is divided into 8 ‘prahar’ of 3 hours each. Night is divided into 4 ‘prahar’. Only 2nd and 3rd ‘prahar’ (total six hours) are advised for sleeping, unless the person is sick. Young children can sleep a little more, but must get up by sunrise. Sleeping in daytime is considered very bad and inauspicious for Arya.)

11. Do you not act on advice of a just one minister. Do you not take decisions in the assembly of many people. Do you ensure that your decisions are not known to other countries before acting on.

(A king should take advice of many people, but take decisions in private, so that the decisions can be kept secret from other countries)

12. Do you ensure that other people (like ambassadors of other countries) are not able to understand your decisions by logic or method (trick) while as you can do understand other’s intentions.

(This is about keeping state secrets, while spying on others. This is considered key to success of the emperor)

13. Do you ensure that a target, that can be achieved with little effort, is given priority?

(You have to wonder now about the wisdom of these ancient people. There is no technique of modern world that is not known to Shri Rama)

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 02:18 AM
14. Do you not prefer one Learned person to a thousand fools. This is so because a Learned person does great good in difficult times.

15. Do you not use your servants according to their abilities – very good in important work, good in less important work, and average in menial tasks.

16. Do you not promote men who are well educated (experts in religion, sciences, and engineering), and from noble families, best of the best, to important positions of the State.

17. Is it not that citizens angered by your decisions denounce you or your ministers.

18. Do you not impose too much taxes, as citizen denounce such a king like women denounce a man that goes to prostitutes, or ‘yajak’ (organizers of a yagna) denounce a man (prevent from attending a yagna) who is of bad character.

19. The king who does not kill a doctor who gives wrong treatment, or a servant who spreads dis-satisfaction, or a general who desires to overrule the king – is killed himself.

20. Did you not appoint a General of the army who is best in behavior, weapons-knowledge, intelligence, patience, pious, noble, devoted, and expert in the job.

21. Do you not award soldiers who are strong and well versed in war-fighting skills, well tested in showing bravery in war.

22. Do you not give food and salary to soldiers as per schedule? You should not delay such things.

23. When servants are not paid and fed on time, they get angry and criticize the master. This is considered a great tragedy.

(Veda says clearly that full time servants as well as daily workers should be fed as well as paid money (agreed wage) for their work. Not feeding a servant is considered wrong. It is a tradition in India to offer food to daily wage laborers due to Vedic knowledge. Temporary agricultural workers – who till the field or who cut the crop and collect the ripe grain – should be fed as well as paid agreed wages. Not feeding workers is a sin)

24. Is it not that heads of noble families desire you and respect you so much that they can even give up their life for you.

25. Did you not appoint as ambassadors Learned and talented people of your own country, who are accurate in sending your message, as well as good speakers.

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 04:07 AM
26. Do you not appoint three spies unknown to each other for knowing the true state of 15 positions of authority of own country, and 18 positions of authority of foreign countries.

(The positions of authority are – 1. Minister, 2. Chief Priest, 3. Crown prince, 4. General of the army, 5. Chief of Palace Guards, 6. Chief of internal security, 7. Chief of prison, 8. Treasurer, 9. Head of palace servants, 10. Solicitor general – or the best legal authority, 11. Head of Religion (like Pope), 12. Ruler or Administrator of city, 13. Chief of border security, 14. Chief Magistrate or Judge, 15. Keeper of the fort, 16. Keeper of the forest, 17. Collector of taxes, 18. The Parishad of heads of civil society.

The advice is for three spies for own country, and three spies for each foreign country. That makes a fairly large cadre of spies for the State of Kosala, consisting of hundreds of officers.

There were some city-states as well in Ramayan time like ‘Vishala city’. So the emperor must be keeping track of all political entities – big or small.)

27. Do you not ignore an enemy as weak who comes back to fight you after running away from a battle earlier?

(Ignorance of this rule is the reason of Bharat getting overrun by foreign armies. The Vedic rule is to not attack a fleeing soldier. But the rules of ‘dharm-yuddha’ are applicable to only followers of dharm. If ‘adharmi’ attacks, a King is advised in Veda to not take any rest and not to come back until the enemy is destroyed. Enemy should be in no position to attack again. This is the reason Shri Rama goes to Lanka to fight Ravann.)

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 04:41 AM
Can Sita be the reason for Lanka war?

The answer is 'yes' and 'no'.

The abduction of Sita forced Shri Rama to search for her. The search brings him to the country of the Vanars. Shri Rama develops the idea of using Vanars' resources to search for Sita. Ultimately Vanars find her, and Shri Rama tried to negotiate with Ravann to free her, which he did not.

The question is why Ravann did not free her? The answer lies in another question - Why did he abduct her?

Sita was married to Shri Rama for 25 years at the time of the abduction. She was not exactly a young lady, that would be so desirable for a king like Ravann. Ravann had no dearth of beautiful ladies in his Harem, which was populated by 1000 girls brought from all over the world.

Ravann was looking to pick up a fight with Shri Rama, with the aim to kill him. So it suited Ravann very much that fight took place near Lanka, so that he could fight on his own terms.

If Ravann did not abduct Sita, even then war would have taken place, though after Shri Rama became king.

Sugriv, the Vanar prince tried to avoid fighting with Ravann as he knew of the dangers. But he had promised to help Rama in retrieving Sita, so Rama held Sugriv to his promise. Ramayan is a time when people were fastidious about their statements. People were truthful. They did what they said. The agreement between Shri Rama and Sugriv was a verbal one, which Sugriv upheld despite the clear outcome of thousands of Vanar deaths.

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 05:41 AM
28. Do you make friends with non-believing Brahmins. These consider themselves Pundits, and are very good at diverting pious people from good deeds, and send them to hell.

(This verse is an eye-opener. Shri Rama is cautioning his brother against false prophets. These are people who attended Gurukul, graduated, but still do not believe in Veda’s instructions, so are ‘adharmi’. These Brahmins are very good in misguiding people and diverting them from the path of ‘dharm’. The typical punishment for such activity was ‘expulsion from country’ in Vedic time. Vedic king did not go by degrees. If a person preaches against Veda – like establishing mortal gods, making statues, indulging in animal sacrifice etc, the immediate result was expulsion.)

30. Do you ensure that people engaged in agriculture and cow-rearing are happy and satisfied. And traders are able to work freely so that they can collect money and food-grains.

(Traders manage the granaries in Vedic society. The granaries are fed by purchasing grain from farmers. Foreign trade or trade between countries was as vigorous in Vedic time as today. The trader can be successful only if debtor/creditors are managed well. Debts are paid in time, and a legal process is available. The trade was done on the basis of credit note or ‘hundi’, where the goods were shipped before money was collected. The verbal or written agreement of traders has been the basis of trade in India for millions of years. This was the real reason of prosperity of India, as free trade increased demand and production of goods. )

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 06:09 AM
33. Do you not get ready in the morning and go to the Court daily before noon to carry out business of the State after traversing your vehicle through the royal road.
(This indicates that the King’s court and palace were in different places. The King had to go via the main road of the city where ordinary people could stop/meet him. The idea is that King should not avoid ordinary people. Compare this to Lanka where the residence of Ravann and the Court are adjacent)

35. Do you ensure that all your forts/strong-holds (‘durg’ in Sanskrit has varied meanings. It can be a fort, as a place with stone walls, or it can just be a city protected by soldiers. Ayodhya was a large place, so ‘durg’ should be considered as a protected city.) are well-endowed with money, food, weapons, ammunition, water, vehicles, artisans, and archers.

36. Do you ensure your income is more than your expenditure? Do you ensure that money is not wasted on useless people and useless objectives (like dancing girls, useless constructions, sycophants etc.)

(This is also a key characteristic of Arya people – not to waste money. In fact people did not take loans for personal expenditure at all. Loans were taken to start or increase business. )

37. Your money should be spent only on Learned people (teachers - who educate others), Security (maintaining army and police forces), Brahmins (means on conducting yagna for the benefit of people), building military capacity (means acquiring weapons and ammunition), and Friends (means diplomacy – protecting friendly countries).

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 06:18 AM
Good Work VedaTruth.. I have reading without fail..I have one question..

I have read that A sould will have to Live on the Earth till the time which is assigned to it.. Let say One soul enters a body & assigned to live 40 yeays on this earth and died before 20 years, so it will have to spend rest of the 20 years on this earth. It is not supposed to leave the earth until it's time has come. IS That TRUE?

edit on 19-10-2011 by AncietSoul because: ...

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 06:27 AM
38. Do you ensure that when somebody puts a blame like theft, lying etc. on an innocent, then the judge does not rush to convict (due to greed) without the expert of law thoroughly examining the case.

39. Do you ensure that corrupt police do not let go of a thief who has been caught red-handed, or who has been proven guilty, or has been seen stealing, or stolen goods have been recovered from him.

40. Do you ensure that your officers hear the case impartially even if dispute is between a rich and a poor person.

41. The tears flowing from convicted innocents destroy a King’s wealth and progeny.

42. Do you make old people, children, doctor, and chiefs happy and satisfied by donation of their desired object, good behavior and kind words?

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 07:21 AM
reply to post by AncietSoul

No, it is false.

If a soul is eligible for a human birth, after an unnatural death, then it will take birth again through the womb of a mother.

A soul is eligible for a human birth if total virtue equals or greater than total sins.

An unnatural death in itself means a punishment from God. So it is illogical to say that soul will spend rest of the time without body.

The Learned ask to accumulate virtue everyday since there is no guarantee when the life will end. So many people never see old age. Most people died young just 300 years ago. The only option is to accumulate so much virtue that God gives a good human life next time, which is spent in accumulating even more virtue.

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 08:04 AM
43. Do you divide your time wisely - that is - spend time meant for religious activity, and time meant for earning money, accordingly. Do you not waste both of these time slots in greedy and lustful activities.

(Two hour in the morning and 2 hour in the evening should be kept for agnihotra, asan, pranayam, jaap, swadhyay etc. Daytime should be used for earning money. People normally left for work after morning meal, and came back before sunset. Most Vedic people may have worked between 9AM and 6PM - three 'prahar'.)

45-47. Fouteen defects to be avoided by King

1. Non-belief in God/Veda
2. Un-truth (lying)
3. Excessive anger
4. Getting happy from sensory gratification - like watching dancers, listening to lustful songs etc.
5. Delay tactics
6. Avoiding Learned persons
7. No control over five Indriya - eyes wants to see nice things but truth, ears wants to hear melodious music but truth, Nose wants to smell perfumes but the smell of real objects, tongue wants to taste expensive foods, but the simple ones, skin wants tittilation (excitement), but calmness/cleanness.
8. Taking decisions alone without taking advice of ministers
9. Taking advice from fools or people who are not well-wishers
10. Not starting (delaying) projects already committted
11. Not able to keep secrets
12. Not doing good deeds like 'yagna', 'daan' etc.
13. Standing up without considering status of the person in front.
14. Attacking all enemies at the same time

posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 08:26 AM
reply to post by AncietSoul

Sometimes large number of people die young due to war (man-made disaster).
A human can kill another human, or people die due to lack of food, water etc, or of diseases.

In all situations, the rule of Karma applies. A person will be born in animal form (typically) if balance of virtue and sins tilts in favour of sins. The only possibility is that a soul will spend less time in 'neech yoni' or animal/plant life-forms than otherwise.

The place of birth depends on soul's attachment. Souls develop an attachment to a country, city etc. So a person who died in America maybe reborn as an animal in the same general area. The actual place of birth is also complicated as so many souls are constantly going through death/rebirth process. God's power is very hard to understand.

A soul can jump planets. Soul is not tied to a planet. If an ET comes to earth and dies, he may get reborn on his original planet. Soul can go anywhere very quickly due to immense power of God.

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