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The vedic civilization and evolution of society in India

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posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 05:29 AM
Ramayan Ayodhyakaand - chapter 28 - Rama hurries to go to forests

Shri Rama says to his father King Dashrath, before going to forests:

36. Maharaj! I have no desire to be a King, or the comforts, or even my wife. I do not desire the wealth of Kingship, or the comforts of heaven, not even my own life.

37. All I want to see is, what you promised comes true. I do not want anybody to say that my father lied. You are a 'devta' to me and I say that on the pledge of my truthfulness and religiousness.

Shri Rama was not afraid of hardships in the forests. He was used to it having spent ten years earlier with Rishi Vishwamitra. He knew the purpose of his life. But his parents and even his wife did not know that.

Pundits have fabricated this story of Rama being Vishnu, Laxman being Sheshnag, and Sita being Laxmi, all three being gods. The fact is Rama is a master Yogi who can see through people and see what is happening in far away places. He knew what he had to do. But he acts like a normal person. Sita and Laxman are just normal people who are nowhere close to Rama in spiritual status. Laxman is a warrior and a steadfast supporter of his elder brother just as a good disciple follows his Guru. Sita is a true religious lady who knows her place is to serve her husband. But these two are unaware of purpose of Shri Rama's life, something that only Rishis like Vishwamitra and Vashishta knew.

King Dashrath is a pious king but he is not a Yogi like Rama. If King Dashrath was a Yogi, he could have killed Ravann himself.

Rishi/Sanyaasi keep off violence and war due to the vows they take. Rishi Vishwamitra could have killed the Rakshas himself if he desired so, but did not due to his vow. The war is left to Kshatriya as per the tenets of Dharm. So the Rishis had to bring a Yogi in the King's family to achieve their ends.

Shri Ram maintained his Brahmcharya despite being married. He was with Sita for twelve years in Ayodhya before leaving for forests. He maintained his Brahmcharya during that time. The answer is he had celestial weapons given to him by Rishi Vishwamitra that could be used only if he was a Brahmchari.

Brahmcharya is a key tenet of Yoga. Only a Brahmchari can aspire to progress in Yoga.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 05:56 AM
A foot soldier called Rama (with bow/arrows) vs Vimans with advanced weapons

Ravann had Viman that could disappear from view, could fire from sky while being invisible, and had advanced weapons similar to missiles, and microwave energy rays.

This is true that Lanka was more advanced in weapons compared to Aryavrata, and this is the reason Dashrath failed to control Rakshas. Rakshas encroached on area in the south and west of Aryavrata, and would have subdued Aryavrata if Rama did not stop them.

Who would win this battle in the modern world?

Nobody would give a chance to the foot soldier in the modern world.

But this foot soldier was no ordinary person. His arrows could command the power of natural forces. He proved to be a single man army that destroyed all the advanced weaponry that Lanka could throw at him.

This is the reason Kings do not like Ramayan. There have been many attempts at modifying Ramayan after Rishi Valmiki wrote it. No original version is available now. It is not possible to get the original version. The best effort of compiling a 'good' Ramayan is by Swami Jagdishwaranand Saraswati.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 06:38 AM
Palace life as described in Ramayan

The Ayodhya Kaand provides a good description of palaces of Ayodhya. The first thing that strikes is each person of the royal family has own palace. King and each queen live separately in own palaces. Each palace is shining white, probably a facade made of white marble. The palaces are high roofed, towering over adjacent buildings. White flags are waving over the palaces, white being the dominating colour of the royalty.

The list of items needed for Rama's crowning ceremony leaves one spellbound. The items include 100 gold pitchers, in addition to a lot of other valuable items.

The Ramayan leaves no doubt in mind about the wealth of Aryavrata.

It seems each prince had an estate that provided an income. Queen is described as donating gold and jewels from own funds, so it is logical each queen received a salary. The overall description is of a very rich kingdom, and a very rich city.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 08:02 PM
The essence of Ramayan

There are many intresting facts about Ramayan that people do not know, due to sharp decline in study of Sanskrit.

1. Ramayan is Sanskrit poem or song. The entire Ramayan can be sung and set to classical music.

2. The essence of Ramayan is the depth of human emotions described in each event. This has made Ramayan so lifelike and endearing.

3. Ramayan is not only the story of a king called Rama, but a story of a nation called Aryavrata that finds itself at a critical turning point. This is the time when rule of Arya kings on earth is challanged by King of Rakshas people. The book provides beautiful narrative about both the civilizations, their cities and their way of life.

4. The episode of Queen Kekayi asking King Dashrath to make her son 'Bharat' the King in place of Rama is a classical indicator of how difficult it is to separate virtuous people from non-virtuous. Humans change, sometimes quite rapidly, blinded by attachment and greed. Arya practiced purity of society by expelling people of bad character from the country. Somehow Manthara (the maid-servant of Kekayi) escapes this rule and brings the house down all by herself.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 08:38 PM
The rise and fall of civilizations

The nation of Aryavrata is no more, as the society could no longer run on principles which founded Aryavrata. But people of Aryavrata did not die along with Aryavrata. The people are still there, represented by their descendants.

A nation is nothing but a political entity bound by certain principles. These principles define the nation. Geography has failed to define a nation historically as a nation is about people, not about land. A nation lives (for example Israel in modern world) as long as people live.

I am surprised how diverse people still love the story of Ramayan after 18.1 million years. People just know the story. They do not know how old the story is. The story is so relevant that it seems it happened yesterday.

It proves that humans have not changed much over that last 18.1 million years since time this story has been told and retold.

Earth is a dynamic planet. It goes through natural and man-made upheavals periodically. Population of humans rise and fall. People move from one place to other. Races mix. The population becomes race-less eventually after major upheavals, when only a few survive. These few again populate the earth and thus bring a new civilization.

The human race on earth is about 1.9 billion years old as per Vedic Jyotish (science of keeping time), The human race has seen all kinds of major upheavals since that time and survived so far. There is no reason to believe it wont survive
in the future. Wars and natural disasters may wipe out a civilization, but some people always survive, and then restart.

No nation survives forever, even the one founded on 'dharm'. There is one critical difference though - the nations founded on dharm last millions of years compared to hundreds of years for non-dharm nations. Internal fighting and injustice normally kill the non-dharm nation before long.

Dharm is basically justice. There is no justice in the kingdom of evil. Always remember that. The light of God falls on the land of the virtuous.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 08:18 AM
Ramayan - AyodhyaKaand - chapter 27 - Shri Ram gives away his wealth to poor before leaving for forest

1. Shri Rama spoke to Laxman that I want to give my wealth to Brahmins and poor before leaving for the forests. Please help me in this work.

2. Then he asked the treasurer to bring the money. Soon after the servants made a mound of gold coins near Shri Rama.

3. Shri Rama and Laxman distributed that money to the Brahmins, the old and the poor.

4. A poor Brahmin called Trijat used to live there who went to forest daily to dig up roots and collect fruits, in order to feed his family.

5,6. The wife of Trijat asked Trijat to go to Shri Rama and ask for his help.

7. Trijat somehow made it to the Rama's place, barely able to cover his body with torn clothes he had.

8,10. Trijat said to Shri Rama - I am a poor person who can barely feed my many children. Please show your kindness to me. Shri Rama says - I have hardly given one thousand cows out of so many that I have. You throw your stick. I shall give you as many cows as can stand between you and where your stick lands.

11. After hearing Shri Rama's words, Trijat threw his stick with all the power he could muster.

12. The stick fell on the other side of Saryu river, where a flock of cows and bullocks were feeding

13. Shri Rama embraced the poor Trijat and sent all the cows that stood between the stick and the bank of Saryu to Trijat's home with the cow-keepers.

14. Then Shri Rama consoled Trijat - O Brahmin! please pardon me as I joked with you.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 10:06 PM
Ramayan - a time of insecurity for Arya Kings

1. King Dashrath takes his army along-with when going to Janakpur for marriage of his sons.
2. Prince Bharat takes his army to Dandak forest when he goes to meet his brother Shri Rama.

A keen reader should ask why?

What is the need of an army in a marriage? or when going to meet a brother?

The answer lies in the bad security situation at that time, not in tradition. There is no tradition to take an army to a marriage.

King Dashrath was an emperor. His life was always at risk. Anti-Arya forces had grown strong at that time, and an attack on the emperor or crown prince could have happened at any time.

Kekayi sent Shri Rama to Dandak forest with the hope that he would not last long there. This forest was frequented by Rakshas and Yaksha people. Of course she did not know the powers that Shri Rama possessed, otherwise she would not have dared.

The proponents of 'band-bazaa-baarati' in modern marriages give an example of Ramayan. This is absolutely wrong. Veda is against waste of money. Veda advises people to live a simple, unpretentious life. Taking a historical event out of context is absolutely wrong.

Waste of money in Marriage

Vedic marriage is a very simple affair with family members and close friends participating in an 'agnihotra' in bride's home, or in Gurukul. The food prepared for 'Yagna' is served in marriage also, which consists of rice, two types of lentils, two types of vegetables, two yoghurt dishes (kadhi, and raita) and one milk dish (kheer), The 'prasad' of 'Yagna' - typically sweet fragrant rice - is also served as a sweet dish.

This seven course lunch is only served after the main ceremony. Rest of the meals can be as simple as normal meals - which consist of rice, optional roti, one lentil, optional one vegetable, one yoghurt dish, and optional one sweet dish (kheer, laddu, sweet fragrant rice, etc.)


Again Ramayan is quoted often for the tradition of dowry.

The clan of Ikshwaku Kings was made up of pious and brave kings, who would never do anything against Dharm. The marriage of each prince was officiated by a Ritvij who was an expert of Veda. Please note that a marriage involving dowry can never be blessed by a Learned person, as per rules laid down by Manu Bhagwan.

There was tradition of father giving daughter 'stree-dhan' or some clothes, jewellery, cows etc. of his own desire. It was not necessary and marriages of Dwij can never be done on the basis of dowry, else that person will be considered 'shudra'.

posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:25 AM
Pitra Yagna

Caring for old parents (and even older parents of father) is called 'Pitra Yagna'. Pitra Yagna is valid only for the living. There is no responsibility towards the deceased ancestors.

The benefit of Yagna or Agnihotra is available only to a person who does 'Pitra Yagna'. If a person treats old people of his household badly, all his good deeds go in vain.

edit on 16-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:38 AM
Bad character is grounds for divorce in Veda

Veda does not allow divorce of married people in most conditions. Poverty, sickness etc. are not grounds for divorce. A woman is always expected to stand by her man till death.

However a man can leave a woman if she develops 'bad' character. The same is true for woman if man develops bad character. Bad character is defined as infidelity, excessive anger, taking intoxicating substances, gambling, wandering aimlessly etc.

A divorce is as easy as just taking a vow "I leave you", and will be upheld by law if grounds are valid.

An 'Arya' is a man of his/her words. An 'Arya' can always be taken at face value. So a legal record of divorce is not considered necessary, as a legal record of marriage is not considered necessary.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 02:38 AM
Ramayan - Ayodhyakaand - chapter 44

11. O Laxman! Bring strong and nice looking timbers from the forest, and build a hut, as I want to stay in this beutiful place.

12, Laxman immediately started work of collecting timbers, and made a hut from it.

I have selected this verse specially, as Laxman is a prince, who has seen the same life of palaces as Rama. Cutting wood from trees with an axe and bringing it to a place manually is hard work. A lot of timber is needed for building a hut. This is the 6th day after leaving Ayodhya. Both brothers did not eat anything for the first three days. They started eating wild fruits etc. from the fourth day. There is no doubt these were strong warriors who could bear rough life.

Shri Rama is on the watch (wearing body armour and carrying weapons), so that Laxman can collect the timber.

We do not know the description of the hut or the time it took to build, from Ramayan. We know from VastuShashtra the minimum house is a three roomed single story building, one room being used as bathroom. We marvel that the princes were quite good in varied skills needed for survival, a true indicator of Kshatriya.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:59 AM
Ramayan AyodhyaKaand chapter 51- A nation without king (lawlessness)

What happens in a nation without a king:

8. Farmers do not plant seeds. Son leaves discipline of father and woman leaves discipline of husband.

9. The nation becomes poor. The women become prostitutes. The fear and terror strikes hearts of people. How can truth prevail in such conditions?

10. People do not decide important matters by consensus. People do not plant gardens, rather destroy them. People do not build 'yagna-shala' (a place to do collective agnihotra).

11. Brahmins do not organize 'yagna' due to fear of criminals.

12. Wealthy Brahmins do not donate to Ritvij. People do not donate to the poor and the needy.

13. The artists and performers become unhappy and stop performing.

14. Traders live in fear, and trade does not increase. Nobody is there to resolve trade disputes. Storytellers do not tell good stories to make people happy.

15. Young ladies stop visiting public parks due to fear.

16. People do not travel for vacation.

17. The wealthy people become insecure, who in turn are not able to protect farmers and cows. People always remain worried of theives.

20. Traders fear to transit lawless country.

22. The country cannot protect itself from enemies.

edit on 17-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 06:44 AM
reply to post by vedatruth

Cutting timber....i thought that dharm did not allow for the killing of a plant, and that the wood would either be removed from still live trees or used from already fallen timber.

The mantra says that Laxman is gathering it. So, unless there is more there than what was quoted, we can presume that he merely gathered it rather than cutting it?

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 06:53 AM
Ramayan and indicators to different geography

Ramayan has many verses that do not agree with current geography. This is natural, as Himalayas have grown in expanse as well as height since then.

If we take an yearly movement of 5 cm per year for Indian Subcontinent relative to Asia Mainland, it calculates to 900 kilometers for 18 million years. That is a very large continental movement.

So it is clear a lot of land south of Himalayas has disappeared since Ramayan time.

The impact of rise of Himalayas is as follows:

1. The ancient city of Ayodhya is lost in the Himalayas. It is several hundred kilometers upriver compared to its modern location.

2. The city was where the river flowed north-south. It flows west-east in the current city of Ayodhya.

3. The Gomti river is described as falling into the sea. It falls into Ganga now. Yamuna river is described as meeting Ganga at Prayag. So Yamuna was very much there. We do not know origin of Yamuna in the time of Rama, but quite likely it came from central India rather than Himalayas. Panchvati is described close to snow-capped mountains which do not exist today.

4. Most of the area of Bengal and Assam was under the sea. This has filled from soil brought from the mountains, and uplifted by geologic movement since then. The same has happened to Sindh, Gujarat and Rajasthan where land has come out of the sea.

5. The kingdom of Kekaya was west of Ayodhya, and was a hill kingdom as described in Ramayan. This kingdom cannot be traced on the map now. It is lost in Himalayas as well.

6. The major rivers of India have been shifting southward from Ramayan's time, due to movement of the sub-continent, and upliftment of Himalayan region. Himalaya is a fold mountain formed by compression of South Asia against mainland Asia.

7. My view is none of the current modren cities said to be associated with Ramayan are at places where these originally existed. Cities have moved with rivers, or are lost in the fog of history.

8. The sea channel between India and Lanka has filled with silt brought from Southern hills. A large number of these hills have disappeared due to nature's power of rain and wind.

9. The sand banks in the channel at Rameshwaram is an indicator that the channel has become wider but shallower. It was narrow and deep in Ramayan's time. So there has been considerable erosion of land, as well as some downward geologic movement in the south. My view is that southern India was larger then (same with Lanka) compared to modern India.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 07:13 AM
Mahabharat places

The places mentioned in Mahabharat were largely at the same place where they are in modern India. There is only one difference - the drying up of the Saraswati river due to upliftment of Rajasthan area. The Saraswati river was the easternmost river originating in the West Himalayas, crossing modern states of Haryana, Rajasthan, and Gujarat, finally falling into gulf of Kachch.

This river was similar to Sindhu in importance, as many towns were found on its banks. The river was the route that Shri Krishna took to establish a new kingdom of Dwarka in modern Gujarat moving from Mathura in the state of Uttar Pradesh.

The river Saraswati was used by traders and many inland ports were found along its course.

Vedic India used river commerce heavily. Boats had the same function that trucks have now. Boat building was a very important industry.

It is strange that we know so much about Egyptian boats. but not as much about Indian boats. It is due to Indian culture, as no memorials to dead kings were built in Vedic India. Kings were cremated and forgotten.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 07:26 AM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It means cutting of branches. Branches are used for building a hut.

Mature trees were cut for timber for building homes, boats etc. Obviously Laxman could not do that, as these people are now living a life of 'Tapasvi' in forest, and can carry only basic tools. They have tools like pickaxe which they can carry on their person. They also have to carry military gear like bow/arrows, body armour etc. as these are warriors.

The ancient warriors of India used body armour whenever in a hostile envionment. I have already covered body armour earlier.

Cutting mature trees is not considered violence, just like cutting a ripe grain crop.

The Karma system has different 'jeev' having different karma points so to speak. Killing an ant is not equal to killing a human. So killing a tree may have some 'sin' value, which can be offset by daily 'agnihotra'. The critical point is to live as simply as possible, so that sins are minimized. Gaining virtue removes the effect of sins.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 07:44 AM
When Rishi Vashisht meets Rishi Bhardwaj at Prayag, he asks about not only well being of human dwellers of the Ashram, but also of animals and birds. Even animals and birds live happily in the Ashram just like humans.

The animals and plants are classified as follows, and sin of killing each is also in the same order:

1. Sthavar or Udbhij - plants and trees (that do not move, or spring from a seed) - lowest karma value
2. Swedaj - the small and microscopic animals that procreate from body secretions
3. Andaj - the animals that lay eggs
4. Garbhaj - the animals that give live birth
5. Humans and Cow

Veda gives same sin value to cow as humans. Killing of a cow/bull is not allowed. The punishment for killing a cow was beheading in Vedic India.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 08:01 AM
Poisonous animals etc.

Killing snakes, spiders, lizards etc. in human settlement is considered OK, and without sin. The same is true of carnivorous animals like tigers, leopards etc. if they enter human settlement.

Pet animals like cats and dogs cannot be kept inside home. Cats are not allowed. Dogs are to be kept in an out-house.

Out-houses were built for cows, horses, even elephants. Elephants were used for transport, as they could cross rivers with ease.

Mules are mentioned many times in Ramayan. It seems mules were in widespread use, as pack animals.

Chariots could not go everywhere. Two places Janakpur and Rajgriha are mentioned as traversed in a chariot, so I assume roads were available though paved roads existed in the city only. The road outside city was a dirt track.

edit on 17-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 08:15 PM
Weights and Measures

Vedic weight system is based on grain of rice. Distance is based on length of hand from elbow to middle finger of a human. Smaller measurement is width of finger.

This seems crude. So I reflected on it deeply. I reached the conclusion that these standards are much better than an artificial kilogram and meter kept in Paris. The standrad in Paris can be destroyed and will be destroyed eventually. What will be left are humans and rice.

Vedic system is easy to understand for humans and repeatable. Any society can restart from basics at any given point of time. This is very logical as Earth is prone to catastrophe periodically.

Commodity Weights

1 dhan = 4 grains of rice
4 dhan = 1 ratti
4 ratti = 1 masa
12 masa = 1 tola
5 tola = 1 chatank
20 tola = 1 pav (4 chatank)
4 pav = 1 ser
40 ser = 1 mun

Length / Distance

4 angul = 1 girah (angul is width of human finger)
6 girah = 1 hath (the distance between elbow and middle finger)
2 hath = 1 gaj
2 gaj = 1 dand (length of stick, typical height of man in Vedic India, typical length of bow)
2000 gaj = 1 krosa = 1000 dand
4 krosa = 1 yojan

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 08:35 PM
Measurement of Ayodhya

I must correct the measurement of Ayodhya.

The humans were taller in Vedic India, so one krosa should be closer to 2 kilometers and one yojan about 8 kilometers.

The average height of man is considered 2 meters in Ramayan time, and the same should be height of Shri Rama being of average height.

So Ayodhya was 96 kilometers long and 24 kilometers wide. As this is a very large area, I must consider it as an urban conglomerate rather than a single city.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 11:01 PM
Units of Volume

Liquid / semi-liquid products like milk, ghee, oil, etc. were sold by volume rather than weight.

How to convert weight into volume? Simple - use rice.

a spoon of one masa = volume of one masa of rice.
a spoon of one tola = volume of one tola of rice.
a ladle of one chatank = volume of one chatank of rice
a glass of one pav = volume of one pav of rice
a pitcher of one ser = volume of one ser of rice
a barrel of one mun = volume of one mun of rice

Storage of food items in homes

Large vessels were used for storage of food items in houses. Fluted neck pitchers were used for oil, and broad neck pitchers were used for grains/lentils/sugar. Ghee was stored in metal containers. Grains/lentils/sugar/oil were stored in earthenware (pottery). Rice was stored in a specially constructed granary built of stones or bricks, in a store room.

Lighting at night

The Vedic system is to sleep from 10PM-4AM, that is for six hours only in a 24 hour day. So light is a necessity if people have to work/study in the dark.

Oil was used for lamps. Mustard oil is meant for lighting, not for food. Only cow ghee was used for food.

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