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Obama unveils $3 trillion deficit-cutting plan and raise Taxes

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posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:44 PM

President Barack Obama offered a spirited defense Monday of his plan to slash $3 trillion from the federal deficit in large part by raising taxes on the wealthy. “This is not class warfare. It’s math,” Obama said. “If we are not willing to ask those who have done extraordinarily well to help America close the deficit … then the logic, the math says everybody else has to do a whole lot more.” Continue Reading Text Size - + reset Listen Obama defends deficit plan VandeHei on POTUS deficit plan Latest on POLITICO To win on jobs, Obama must dig in A tale of two depressions Perry, Romney tear into each other Bachmann attacks Perry on HPV Comcast responds to big policy fights with big hires Republican debate: Live blog POLITICO 44 Read more:

heres some math for you Mr. President and i do use that term loosely there are only between 5 to 7 million "millionaires" with another 400 billionaires in this country

heres some more math Mr President half this country doesn't even pay any income tax whatsoever and isnt that what raising taxes is all about ? government has blown the money it already steals and then doesn't ask doesn't beg
they just take whatever they feel like and move that line how much and how often they want to.

thought the current potus and the party he represents was suppose to be all about fighting for minorities well 8 million people who are suppose to sit there and finance the other 10s of millions oh and who by the way are receiving 3 trillion in tax cuts pretty much why they have 0 liability and getting refunds paid by those people who are paying into the tax system.

and heres the basic math

$1,000,000 paying out a measly 20 % is paying 200k just in federal

$30k paying an outrageous 30% is paying 9k just federal

of course if they haven't gotten so many tax credit they have any liability whatsoever and according to the statistics thats over half of this country.

the obama game plan cutting 3 trillion even tho thats what hes spent in the last 3 years and raise taxes.

seems to me that if he and the feds made cuts raising taxes is not necessary but nope!

Raise Taxes! which means for all intensive purposes there will never be 3 trillion in cuts.

a cut is what you do when you don't have any money you don't go stealing more money and continue to go blow it.

aint goverment of this country great they don't have a damn clue.

end line..........

thoughts comments thread open for business please check hats and coats and attitudes at the door.


edit on 19-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:48 PM
First -- nobody who makes 30K annually, single or otherwise, will be paying 9K in Federal Taxes. That is just mythology and misdirection.

Secondly -- "for all intensive purposes?" No wonder our country is such a mess.

Still reading the plan.
edit on 19-9-2011 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:54 PM
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

according to those links "half this country isnt paying income tax"

they arent paying 9k in taxes

missed the point totally

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:59 PM
So do you have a problem with taxing the rich? To me that sounds like the way to go, that or eliminate the government

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:04 PM
Too bad these tax hikes won't affect Lloyd Blankfein and others like him.

edit on 19-9-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:06 PM
reply to post by neo96

I didn't miss the point at all. They are still paying FICA. They are still paying state and local taxes on everything they buy. People making 30K a year can't afford to pay for more Corporate bailouts, or bombs. They make X amount on their paychecks, and the company store takes back everything they get paid plus 10% more every pay period, just to stay afloat, keep the lights on and feed themselves.

The point is pure gibberish. The real cheat is that large corporations don't pay any taxes at all, and that most of our money is spent on wasteful garbage like new murder suits for our stormtroopers of death.

Is Social Security out of control? Hell yes it is. The biggest generation in our nations history is retiring and trying to take the money they paid in out at the same time. Meanwhile, lower birthrates over the following 30+ years, increased automation and "efficiency" and other factors -- completely outside of our control -- are reducing the workforce by leaps and bounds, jobless recovery after jobless recovery. In telecommunications there used to be 30 TAX PAYING workers for every 1 that remains today. And this convergence happened at exactly the same moment social security eligibility tripled in size.

Add an out of control federal apparatus and a massive military industrial complex, and you have a recipe for bankruptcy. And even then -- the poor won't pay more taxes, because the system is constructed in such a way as to leave them with a 10% deficit after each paycheck already.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:08 PM
Let got after the filthy rich off shore bank accounts and businesses and see how much we can save because they are not bringing a darn thing to the nations employment or prosperity.

Any company that has taken their business oversea do not deserve any tax brakes at all.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:09 PM
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

missed it completely what is the op about INCOME TAX

dont think all those evil rich folk arent paying those as well

no amount of taxation is going to do anything.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:22 PM
reply to post by neo96

The ending of the Bush taxes was part of the agenda of Obama when he took office, when the Obama care came to be he very clear hinted that he will have the rich paying for that, the time is getting close for the implementation of Obamacare, unless the Supreme court render the mandate illegal under the constitution and then it will be no Obamacare at all.

This tax on the rich looks like a help and a "fair" thing for the people, but actually is to pay for the healthcare reform initial cost.

Obamacare is not cheap and with almost 50 percent of the population no paying taxes or littler taxes the money has to come from somewhere.

Remember the nation is turning into a working poor nation when people have to work for minimum wages only, they still will need government assistance to be able to survive and feed families.

Many of the people in this group will not be able to afford Obamacare.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:25 PM

Originally posted by neo96
a cut is what you do when you don't have any money you don't go stealing more money and continue to go blow it.

I wish people would get this. Throwing more money into this from even the rich's pockets is akin to throwing a sun or gas giant into a black hole thinking we're going to plug that sucker up.

We're in more debt than the rich have.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:04 PM

Originally posted by thegoods724
So do you have a problem with taxing the rich? To me that sounds like the way to go, that or eliminate the government

Possibly another person who does not understand the "the rich" will simply pass down these tax increases to the rest of us by raising the prices of whatever they produce.

So, it is YOU that will end up paying the increased taxes through higher prices.

Seems like it would be a lot less bureaucratic and more efficient of government just taxed YOU in the first place.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:19 PM
reply to post by centurion1211

I do not follow your logic.

How does "taxing the rich" equate to everyone else paying for it?
Please fully explain.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:31 PM
reply to post by ispyed

If your thought process would carry you further than the nose on your face you'd see the big picture instead of the emotional path of least resistance immediately available to those who have no thought out principles.

I bought a bike. It cost me $100 + 10% sales tax, $110 is the final sales price.

The bike cost $25 to manufacture, $25 to transport and $25 to insure everything. The retailer tagged an extra $25 on it to support his own operation.

If that bike cost $25 to manufacture last year but it will cost $50 to manufacture next year because you simpletons want the evil rich to pay, guess what?

Next year the bike cost $50 to manufacture, with extra tax on the big bad oil companies it now costs $50 to transport. And now that it's worth so much more it cost $50 to insure everything, The retailer has to keep his margins so now his share is $50 too.

Now, due to your brilliance, I have to pay $200 for the same bike. Oh wait, the sale tax I owe is now twice as much too. $220!

You pay more, the businesses pay the same (zero), and now maybe you finally get it?!!

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:41 PM

The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.

The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.

alternate source

can you hear me now?

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:58 PM
reply to post by TreadUpon

This is true and just further proves that the system serves the rich.

No matter what happens the cost is transferred to the consumer.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:32 PM

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by TreadUpon

This is true and just further proves that the system serves the rich.

No matter what happens the cost is transferred to the consumer.

It does not! It serves us all if we understand it.

Why is the cost of living so outrageous in the most liberal areas of the U.S.? My brother in law pays $8000/year in property taxes on an 800 sqft home in NJ. Really? Want more money in your pocket? The gov't is taking it, not the corporations.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by neo96

While the regime plays this class welfare, "pay your fair share" on the "millionaires and billionaires" it's simply a play on emotions with the people who feel entitled, the people who have to get back at the evil rich corporate jet owners but the truth is the middle and lower class will pay dearly.

Obama is doing a great job keeping many of the American's eyes focused somewhere else, meanwhile, his sites are percisely set ON US!

A good manipulator will play with people's emotions and thats just what is happening here.

Meanwhile 40 cents on every dollar is borrowed money already.

This is stimulus number 3 and we should expect Obama to feed us the same (paraphrasing), "shovel ready wasn't so shovel ready" Oops! crap again.

The Bush tax cuts will expire soon.

Obamacare is creeping along and soon it will be a fatal blow to our economy and our wallets.

Big and small businesses will have no choice but to down size employees, when (not if) they are taxed more.

Obama's pet project that is thriving via the EPA as a clean air feel-good peace brother energy act will "necessarily sky rocket" our electricity (energy consumption, including gas) under his administration.

This is only a drop in the bucket as to the taxes he is and plans to pass onto the employed in America, but not necessarily only the employed...
remember Medicare was stripped of billions and stashed into Obamacare, so I guess the only one's not getting taxed are the illegal immigrants... oh wait, they get income tax refunds and get to vote for more hope and change.

We need to get this unconstitutional thug out of the White House.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:33 PM
urban myth "the system benefits the rich"

when they are paying more in tax revenue

by the numbers:

25 million unemployed in this country which is more than all those evil 8 million millioniares and billionaires.
15 million state and federal workers more than all those evil rich milionaires and billionaires
65 million those who are collecting social security way more than all those evil millionaires and billionaires
45 million on welfare more than all those evil millionaires and billionaires.

and the creme de la creme:

household assets: 58 trillion dollars
corporate assets: 15 trillion dollars.

do the math the rich pay more than everyone else and they are the first targets when the government blows what its already stolen out of all that cash they take just how much ends up to those with less?

dont see the system benefiting the rich at all

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:37 PM
Anyone with a functioning brain and the ability look at the figures will realize that tax increases are NECESSARY to cut the deficit. No amount of spending cuts would solve the budget deficit issue on its own.

Does that mean everyone's taxes will have to go up? Of course not! Selective tax increases are enough, and they should be done in a way that doesn't harm economic growth or the overall wellbeing of the majority of US citizens.

Someone earning $30k per year will spend pretty much all of it, creating jobs in the process. Why? Because life is expensive and if you make little, you will have to use most of it to live, to buy food, to buy gas, to pay for school, to go on vacation, to buy that new car, and so on.

Someone earning $1m will spend some of it, and if he's got a brain (which is often a given if he made $1m in the first place) he will invest whatever's left over. Generally, that share of "left over" money to invest is higher than that of a "poor" person. So that "rich" fellow is going to invest his money. And of course now people will say "see, he's going to invest and stimulate the US economy".

If you invest money, and you're not an idiot, you invest it where returns are greatest. Since the housing crash, that's not real estate. It's also not the stock market, because if you look at the Dow Jones for example, and invested money in 2000, on average, you lost money by 2011. That's taking the average index of course, some people still make money of stocks in the US.

Dow Jones graph for those who care

So what are rich people investing in?

1) FOREX: Buffet does it, Jim Rogers does it, everyone and his dog does it. When investing in forex you don't really care much if the market goes up or down, you just long or short. Possible in stocks too of course, but it's easier and more direct in forex...the markets are also more liquid. In both cases though, it's not really stimulating the economy all that much.

2) Gold: If you had invested in gold 10 years ago, you would have joined an average yearly return of around 20%!! Far far far faaaar above bonds and most stocks. Does buying gold stimulate the economy? Not really in a way that generates jobs...

3) Oil: Wars in oil producing regions + more people buying plastic (iPods, etc.) = price of oil goes up. Pretty good investment...does investing in oil create jobs? A handfull, at offshore oil rigs...not enough to claim it's "stimulating the economy".

And then there's the problem of the disconnect between Main Street and Wall Street. Investing in stocks doesn't necessarily result in a better economy with more sustainable consumption. Sure, you can boost stuff temporarily...until the world wakes up and realizes it's all vapour. That's what happened in the recent crash. And short term thinking like that gets us in trouble...

The point is, the "rich" use the money they save from paying not more taxes in ways that doesn't necessarily boost the economy. Hiring Lopez from Mexico to cut your lawn once a week isn't "creating jobs" or "boosting the economy"...and neither is buying that $15m ring which was made in Paris and brought over in a leather suitcase by an English guy wearing a suit.

Of course some invest their money in ways that boost the economy, but they're not in the majority. And it's clear that rich people shouldn't be taxed to hell and back "just because they're rich". But no one could argue against a 2-3% increase for people earning over $10m per year.

Or companies being allowed to ship jobs off-shore, or fire people outright while getting massive tax subsidies. Or other tax evasion methods. If they do business here, and want the benefits that come with it, they should pay their fair share without "deferring taxes because of losses incurred abroad".

Those 2 things alone wouldn't hurt 95% of Americans, and wouldn't kill the remaining 5%. Of course companies' goal is to make profit, as much profit as possible. They are not "moral entities" if you want. So they will spend a TON on making sure those tax hikes won't happen for them.

They do that through people like the Koch brothers. By creating entire media campaigns aimed at convincing the people that as soon as someone mentions tax hikes, even if they are inevitably necessary, they believe THEY will have to pay more taxes...the average Joe. Look at who funds the parties who influence you! BIG BUSINESS!

Tax hikes will happen, because they are necessary to fix the deficit. Spending cuts alone won't "cut it". But they can be done in a sensible way...or more like "could". Because cutting money from the poor and middle class, the classes who spend most of their money on real stuff that stimulates the US economy, is pretty much shooting the economy while it's down.

posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by sweetliberty

glad to see you back on here

"class welfare" great term thats what it is and we do indeed need to get the thug out of the office

hes putting us all in the poor house
edit on 19-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

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