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Obama unveils $3 trillion deficit-cutting plan and raise Taxes

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posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I would prefer we cut spending overseas first. But that won't happen because the rich are making tons of money from our foreign policy. It only makes sense if we are to continue this insane foreign policy, the benefactors of that must pay. We would have no problem maintaining at home entitlements if we weren't spending on wasteful government agencies and wasteful overseas policy.




posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I agree with you Marg, this admin is looking for any way to raise revenue to pay for this monstrosity.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by Dreamwatcher
 





The main Point I am making is how one can harp on the lower 50% of the US, yet they own so LITTLE of the wealth. What do you want from them? Everything they own? Even that would cover about 10% of debt.


No, this is not the issue. It is not that anyone wants anything from them. It is that this admin and those who support him want desperately to raise taxes(as another smart poster mentioned before) to pay for the healthcare entitlements, and I bet probably more payoffs to people to elect him or those who did elect him, more entitlements of various kinds, and really its not rocket science, the more taxes they raise the more they will spend. Socialism is based on entitlement spending, and these people will sack everyone who pays taxes to do it. We knew he was gonna do it when he said "spread the wealth", and that's Marxist code for redistribution of wealth. It's their agenda and by golly they are gonna do it by hook or by crook, mostly by crook(edness).
Just so you know, this is not just his plan, but Soros; plan, Trumpka, and many others.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 02:51 AM
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This is all talk anyway.
Nothing will pass the House. If it did, it'd be the death knell of the republicans.

Obama can talk all he wants about balancing budgets, but what he wants is conflict. He's bringing up class warfare so people won't pay attention to all the corruption happening in his administration.

He's a community organizer who only knows how to do things one way. Through conflict, coersion, intimidation, bullying. . . whatever you want to call it.

He cares nothing for this country and is only interested in what he can get out of it.

S&F



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You're not getting it neo...half the country doesn't owe taxes because they're too poor. Half the country is too poor to pay taxes. That's a bad thing, yes...but it's not bad for the reasons you're claiming.

Here's someone who speaks your language, it's from Fox news, the bastion of conservative media:


If you ask the bottom 98 to sacrifice, that’s a prudent fiscal policy. If you ask the top 2 percent to sacrifice, that’s class warfare.

The rich-mustn’t-pay argument goes down a whole lot easier if you have the right phrases for the small, privileged group you are trying to protect. Don’t call them “fat cats.” Never use terms like “the super-rich” or “millionaires and billionaires.” Avoid all of that. They are “job creators,” “small business owners” and “people with the entrepreneurial spirit to get us out of this mess.”

The truth is that lately, things have been very sweet for those at the very top...More working families are tumbling into poverty, the second-highest poverty rate in 45 years. A greater and greater percentage of the wealth in America is held in fewer and fewer hands.


The Jimmy Buffett Rule

Here's something to chew on, the 'smart' people whom you worship because they 'create jobs' are smart enough to avoid taxes too. Google is a great company, they also skip out on billions of dollars in taxes.

Really, what good does it do you, personally, to defend tax cheats who, in some cases, exploit thousands if not millions of people? They'd sooner cause children to starve than to sacrifice their third or fifth home. They don't experience poverty. Poverty to these people is $400,000.

There's no justifiable reason for it other than your twisted idea of 'fair.'



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Don't believe anything Obama says. The man has already proved he can't save anything let alone himself. His "Yes we can" slogan has proved to be "no we can't". His philosophy is that you can borrow your way to prosperity, and pay your debts with other debts. This is tantamount to using one of your personal credit cards to pay off the other, and you just keep bouncing the payments from each credit card back and forth, getting nowhere and staying in debt the whole time.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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Finally Obama is doing the right thing by going for broke in what the lackeys of the rich GOP call class warfare.

THAT’S A JOKE. The elite have been on the warpath on the backs of the poor and middle class for decades and the protectors of millionaires and billionaires in the GOP are still trying their best to protect the rich who have had it better than ever.

If the American people vote in the GOP then they deserve their inevitable destruction

AND BELIEVE ME THEY WILL GET IT!



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 



the obama game plan cutting 3 trillion even tho thats what hes spent in the last 3 years and raise taxes.

seems to me that if he and the feds made cuts raising taxes is not necessary but nope!

Raise Taxes! which means for all intensive purposes there will never be 3 trillion in cuts.


That's 3 trillion in spending cuts, not 3 trillion in tax cuts.

This country needs to do both, we need to both raise taxes on the top 1% and cut spending. Part of the problem with Obama's plan is it doesn't cut spending enough. We need to cut military spending by at least 2/3, we should also cut congressional health care out completely. (all those people against government run health care are very hypocritical if they continue to use the Federal Health care plan while rallying against government run health care.) We should also cut congressional, executive, and judicial branch salary by at least 50% (we are supposed to be broke right? Well, they can make some cuts too.)

We also need to close corporate tax loopholes that allow companies like GE to get away with paying 0% in taxes. You can't realistically lower the tax rate from 0% It's just impossible unless you want to give these corporations MORE money. We should also end subsidies for Oil companies that earn billions a quarter in profit.

We also should place huge tariffs on goods imported into the country by US based companies and make it more expensive to manufacture goods overseas than it would be to produce products here at home.

Finally we need to close companies and put business owners in federal prison for hiring undocumented workers. Also, we need to confiscate land and jail landlords who rent to illegal aliens. Make it not worth the risk of getting caught with these people and you will see them start hiring Americans again.

Just cutting taxes for those who already pay nothing in taxes (I.E. GE and corporations like them) isn't going to fix this economy or get people back to work. And raising taxes on the middle class and the poor isn't going to help people already struggling just to get by.

Last but certainly not least, let's finally dispel the myth that the poor don't pay any taxes. They pay taxes on absolutely every purchase. Every time they fill up their vehicles, they are paying federal tax on that purchase. The working poor also pay income tax, they do get a refund, but they do end up paying taxes, they don't always get all that money back. If you are a single person making $16,000 a year, you will pay $400.00 in federal tax.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by TreadUpon
reply to post by ispyed
 


If your thought process would carry you further than the nose on your face you'd see the big picture instead of the emotional path of least resistance immediately available to those who have no thought out principles.

I bought a bike. It cost me $100 + 10% sales tax, $110 is the final sales price.

The bike cost $25 to manufacture, $25 to transport and $25 to insure everything. The retailer tagged an extra $25 on it to support his own operation.

If that bike cost $25 to manufacture last year but it will cost $50 to manufacture next year because you simpletons want the evil rich to pay, guess what?



Not in a world where you buy less stuff if it costs more.
Here: I made a simple spreadsheet to demonstrate:
docs.google.com...
You can pretty much play around with anything, Unless you set the demand curve to 0, meaning that you sell exactly as many units for 1$ as for 1000$, you will see that the tax rate will not change the price with which to achieve maximum profits.

Think about it this way: If you would buy the same bike for 250 anyway, why wouldn't the producer just charge 250? Why does he need a tax increase first to realize that you are willing to pay more?
edit on 20-9-2011 by narwahl because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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As an aside, it's certainly easy to tell who, in this thread, are the people who earn enough to be affected by this tax raise on the rich. Either that or they are closely related to someone who will be.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Are there any people in this thread who think taxes are already too high for EVERYBODY, rich and poor.

I think people are confusing the issue. Corporate tax is different from personal tax. It is the corporate taxes where tax avoidance is the norm.

I feel corporate tax should be zero. I mean what is the logic of taxing a company for being productive to the society.

The individual tax should be same for everybody, on top of a certain minimum cutoff. There is no logic of poor people paying income tax.

I think only solution is smaller government and smaller military.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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The problem with President Obama's plan is that it doesn't cut much of the deficit. For each dollar of cuts there are 3 dollars of tax increases. He solves the problem in typical Democrat fashion: Don't trim the budget in line with revenue projections, just tax more to make up the difference. I'm not opposed to some revenue raising via increased taxes but they need to be a $1 in tax to $4+ in budget cuts at the same time. That's how you fix a budget, increase your income (tax) with trimming your expenses (budget). In bizarro land Washington, that kind of thinking gets you a blank stare.


A lot of his proposed cuts are just trims in the rate of growth in future budgets....to me that sounds like counting your deficit savings before they hatch. His budget does little to slow or even trim the growth of government, which is the cause of our current problems. Sooner of later, that problem, specifically Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and now Obamacare will have to be dealt with. You can only keep kicking a problem down the road for so long till the road ends..... at a cliff.

The solution isn't taxing the rich more.....it's getting more people working and paying taxes. Economic growth that is American job based with lasting jobs is the best way to get the country on the right track. A broad paying tax base makes up for a lot of stupid budget actions. I'm not saying tax everyone more, just have more people earning wages, that is the real way to increase the government coffers.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by inforeal
 


Seriously true. If the people are so dumb that they can look at this situation we are in, combined with the massive inequality of wealth and income in this country, and still vote in the GOP, then f--- it all, we deserve what we get. What we need is MORE cooperation (that thing we use to do that is called government), and what we get from Republicans is more me-first-ism.

I am beginning think it is time for me to stop trying to improve things and turn my attention to stealing as much as I can for my family.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
This is all talk anyway.
Nothing will pass the House. If it did, it'd be the death knell of the republicans.

Obama can talk all he wants about balancing budgets, but what he wants is conflict. He's bringing up class warfare so people won't pay attention to all the corruption happening in his administration.

He's a community organizer who only knows how to do things one way. Through conflict, coersion, intimidation, bullying. . . whatever you want to call it.

He cares nothing for this country and is only interested in what he can get out of it.

S&F


Yep. For a President who want's Congress to "pass this bill now" and "we need to act urgently and in a bipartisan manner" this sure ain't the way to do it. It's political posturing from a "Do nothing Whitehouse". Playing this political game won't go anywhere, he needs to get serious with some real budgetary discussions. Soon he will be at it again with the " I'm not sure if we will get the Social Security checks out" stuff again.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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Raising taxes is ridiculous. Even if somehow you could tax everyone 100% it wouldn't even make a dent in the deficit. The only answer is to cut govt spending in a major way.




An insightful reader post on Megan McArdle’s blog on the Atlantic uses IRS data to figure out how much money the government would raise by taxing certain wealth levels. He says a 45% rate on incomes of more than $1 million would generate $31 billion, while an even more progressive tax, with rates of 50%, 60%, 70% on incomes of $500,000, $5 million, $10 million respectively would generate an added $133 billion. That is roughly 10% of the current annual budget deficit.


Can Taxing the Rich Erase the Deficit



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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From the looks of things we will need a new National Anthem. I think I found it this morning!


Can some one please explain to me the theory that You can't reduce the deficit by cutting spending? Over spending causes the deficit to begin with. Reduce spending, you realize more cash. More cash allows you to pay greater sums toward your debt.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
Raising taxes is ridiculous. Even if somehow you could tax everyone 100% it wouldn't even make a dent in the deficit. The only answer is to cut govt spending in a major way.




An insightful reader post on Megan McArdle’s blog on the Atlantic uses IRS data to figure out how much money the government would raise by taxing certain wealth levels. He says a 45% rate on incomes of more than $1 million would generate $31 billion, while an even more progressive tax, with rates of 50%, 60%, 70% on incomes of $500,000, $5 million, $10 million respectively would generate an added $133 billion. That is roughly 10% of the current annual budget deficit.


Can Taxing the Rich Erase the Deficit


A'll right, i'll use that stupid "household"-analogy that repubs are so fond of for this one, because somebody has to explain this to me:
Let's say you find out that you constantly spend 100$ more than you take in, and want to adress the problem.
You can put in more hours at work to get 25$ more.
You can buy cheaper groceries for an addtional 35$ saving.
You could quit smoking for an addtional 10$
Cancel the cable subscription for an additional 30$

So putting in more work doesn't solve the problem
Buying cheaper groceries doesn't solve the problem
Quitting smoking doesn't solve the problem
Canceling cable doesn't solve the problem

So you dismiss all these 4 possibilities and start looking for a 5th one, since they all fail to solve the problem.

You are of course correct when you say that making the tax code fairer will not solve the "Problem" all by It's own, but I seriously doubt you will find 1.48 Trillion dollars under a matress to solve the problem in one fell swoop, so let's start there perhaps?



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by narwahl
 


So, I take it that nobody can explain this to me?



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by neo96
 


I would prefer we cut spending overseas first. But that won't happen because the rich are making tons of money from our foreign policy. It only makes sense if we are to continue this insane foreign policy, the benefactors of that must pay. We would have no problem maintaining at home entitlements if we weren't spending on wasteful government agencies and wasteful overseas policy.


Your view are very good.

You cannot make these people pay who are responsible for 'this foreign policy' because these people are in control of government.

Government never taxes itself.

I think first step is awareness. As more people are aware of the issues, they will press for changes.

Of course you cannot change the system all of a sudden. But it can happen if people want.



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