Logic that will make your head spin

Is matter created from nothing? If so, how? If not, then doesn't that mean that all matter has always existed?

Originally posted by wrathofall
Is matter created from nothing? If so, how? If not, then doesn't that mean that all matter has always existed?

If it is impossible for something to come from nothing, then if anything exists, it must have always existed, i.e. eternal, infinite, and since it is impossible to have multiple infinities everything must be one. Or so the Greeks were led to believe.

There is no logic available when mixing pre-classical physics with quantum mechanics. A lot of pre-classical physics were just interesting thought problems, with no scientific method by which to verify them. Classical physics help to tackle and quantify most of our physical reality, and paved the way for Relativity Theory. Relativity explains the macrocosm of reality pretty well, and it in turn paved the way for Quantum Mechanics. Quantum Mechanics remains largely dealing with interesting thoughts problems, however, we are able to scientifically refute the discoveries that have been made.

It was a bunch of cumulative steps in the way us humans think about Reality.

1. Pre-Classical. I think, therefore I am.
2. Classical. That apple fell from the tree, why?
3. Relativity. The gravity of a planet warps space-time.
4. Quantum Mechanics. The particle is either there or not, depending on which observation I make.
5. The Theory of Everything. We don't have this yet, but it will tie together the previous four schools of thought.

There is harm in mixing different schools with no concise definition of "nothing", "everything", and other vague terms. The logic doesn't make my head spin, it simply points out the inconsistencies in your presentation when accorded to modern scientific studies.

we/humans are proof something can come from nothing. And we are proof nothing is capable of making separations in it creations...I.E. humans, animals, stars, universes,(expansion makes nothing into something) infinite meaning continual, finite meaning ending, yet infinite over takes finite every time, so Yes Something can come from Nothing, In my Opinion

If two people are looking at the same object, they are looking at it from different perspectives, even if they are standing next to each other, or on top of each other, it is still not the exact same location (which would require someone's eyes to be in the same place as another's eyes). so it is impossible for the same object to be viewed from the exact same perspective. Even if one person looks at an object, then moves so another person can occupy the space they were standing in, the object has changed over the time it took for the two witnesses to switch places. That means that what you are looking at can never be viewed exactly the same as anyone else, even if they tried, time would pass and the object would change. So how can we know that what we are looking at is the same thing other people are looking at?

infinite and finite cancel each other out so therefore we have a nothingness that can be measured
the Nothing can not be measured , as there is nothing there to measure, how big is the Nothing, it is neither large nor small.

As the OP stated, to break thngs down to a infinite number, like time this means nothing because at some point you would run out of time.
Another thing is that even thought you could do this it would mean, show nothing, because at some point you would just be looking at the same thing.
Even on the Video it it is only broken down to 25 to 30 fps.

These old thoughts just don't measure up to current concepts of time and space.

The Creator stood in the Nothing and said I am.

Even the Nothing could not, not exist, without the concept, perspective of the Something.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by filosophia

 

And, in truth... How do We KNOW something cannot come from nothing?

because we cannot quantitate nothing, in fact, nothing is just a theoretical start to measure something against an unknown non existance.........

edit on 18-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

Just because We cannot quantitate the concept does not mean that something could not spring forth therefrom. (And I say that it cannot be used as measure if it has no known qualities. So "nothing" cannot be placed in a category of having no known qualities, And therefore, though it has no quantity, that it has quality makes it less than "unknown.")

ok, then you tell me what zero, zilch, nothing, really is....and tell me how you can "know" qualities of something that doesn't even exist enough to have any quantity......... yet we still use it as a starting point by which to measure by.....

reply to post by lbndhr


But the question is: HOW can something be created from nothing? I have no idea, so I am asking if it can be proven. I don't know.

Originally posted by lbndhr
we/humans are proof something can come from nothing. And we are proof nothing is capable of making separations in it creations...I.E. humans, animals, stars, universes,(expansion makes nothing into something) infinite meaning continual, finite meaning ending, yet infinite over takes finite every time, so Yes Something can come from Nothing, In my Opinion

i need pics of this nothing that humans came from............

Originally posted by wrathofall
reply to post by lbndhr

 

But the question is: HOW can something be created from nothing? I have no idea, so I am asking if it can be proven. I don't know.

exactly!!! ha ha, how can there even be a nothing in a world made of something?????????

Originally posted by filosophia

If it is impossible for something to come from nothing, then if anything exists, it must have always existed, i.e. eternal, infinite, and since it is impossible to have multiple infinities everything must be one. Or so the Greeks were led to believe.

Look, obviously you are in a denial mode, I have offered you a video where you can actually learn something relevant, about yourself, surroundings and the universe.

You just keep ignoring everything, be a bit more open minded

Originally posted by Heckren

Originally posted by filosophia

If it is impossible for something to come from nothing, then if anything exists, it must have always existed, i.e. eternal, infinite, and since it is impossible to have multiple infinities everything must be one. Or so the Greeks were led to believe.

Look, obviously you are in a denial mode, I have offered you a video where you can actually learn something relevant, about yourself, surroundings and the universe.

You just keep ignoring everything, be a bit more open minded

if nothing exists, then it must be something........

I always wondered what space is? How can space be created? When we say something is created from nothing, we probably mean something material which occupies space, but is space material? As far as I know, it isn't, but still it is needed for anything to exist. How was it created?

Originally posted by Heckren

Originally posted by filosophia

If it is impossible for something to come from nothing, then if anything exists, it must have always existed, i.e. eternal, infinite, and since it is impossible to have multiple infinities everything must be one. Or so the Greeks were led to believe.

Look, obviously you are in a denial mode, I have offered you a video where you can actually learn something relevant, about yourself, surroundings and the universe.

You just keep ignoring everything, be a bit more open minded

matter of fact, since you think that reality can only be argued through mathematics, prove to me mathematically that there is such thing as nothing......

wouldn't it be something if we didn't actually move, but, we stayed stationary and reality "moved" around us? therefore giving us the perception that we are moving through reality.......

Originally posted by filosophia
#1. Nothing can come from nothing. Consequently, something can not become nothing.

If nothing can come from nothing (a well known axiom of Greek thought), then if you are something because you are alive, you must have come from something. Similarly, when you die, it's impossible for something to go into nothing, and thus it's impossible for you to die in the sense of becoming nothing.

When talking about object, it is right. But using value or purpose as measurement, something can become nothing because it has no value or no use anymore to the person.

#3. Movement is impossible.
If you attempt to go from point A to point B, you must first travel from point A to point A(1)

A.......A(1).........B

In order to travel from A to A(1), you must travel from A to A(2),

A........A(2).........A(1)........B

and to travel from A to A(2), you must travel from A to A(3,4,5,6,7...infinity). Thus, you must travel an infinite DISTANCE to travel a finite distance. Since this is impossible, movement is impossible. (This is known as Zeno's tortoise paradox).

The word in capital letters supposed to be point. Must travel an infinite points, A1, A2etc. Movement is possible.

#4. Aging is impossible (similar to the theory of movement).

If something ages from 0 to 1 sec, it must first age 0.5 seconds, then 0.25 seconds, then 0.125, etc, etc, an infinitely smaller and smaller number while never touching zero. Thus, you must travel an infinite number of finite fractions of a second in order to reach 1 second. Since it is impossible to age an infinite amount of finite seconds, age is impossible.

It is possible to age an infinite amount of finite seconds. Imposible if to age an infinite amount of finite time After all second is not a time, but a measuring index. And time will leave every measure. From 0,5sec,0.25sec,... and reach 0 and still moving. Wont stop at 0.

#5. Space does not exist.

If two objects are separate from each other, it is said there is space between them. But since each of their atomic components rest alongside air particles (particles in the air, elements), which in turn rest alongside other air particles, and any other material in the air or in the way (atoms, electrons, quarks) until it reaches the second object, by which there is no space between the first object because of these microscopic particles in the way.

Furthermore, if you are at the top of the sky, and you look towards the ether/oblivion, since the oblivion is nothing, there is no space between you and something that doesn't exist, since nothing has no coordinates, there can't be space next to it.

If from object approaching, we must know first if the atoms, electrons or quarks are touching eachother. And must be in perfect all surface connected. The atoms, electrons or quarks must shape in perfect cubes in the same size in order to leave no space between when connected all together. When someone describe atom is round like a ball, when fill a space with lots of atom, there will be some space left because some surface not connected to other atom surface.
In other way, spay can be define as to contain something. No space can be mean already full. If a space contained air room pressure fully, it still have some space left for more air, and some space for water, and some space for iron ball and so on. Space will be depend on subject that can or put in it, space available or no space.

reply to post by patternfinder


Then why are me feet sore after not moving all day?

Originally posted by Julie Washington
...and it still doesn't answer what came first...

the chicken or the egg?

Chicken for sure came first. Unless you ask what came first, egg or chicken, will be egg first lol...just kidding.
The answer will depend of what kind of chicken you mean. If the kind of chicken that we usually ate, the answer is egg. Long ago some people domesticated some kind of bird, some people called it wild chicken or forest chicken. They breed it and after few generation some characteristic start changing. And other people mix breed it with other domesticated wild chicken from different species.
The female laid some eggs and when it hatched it looks more like chicken we know today. Then some people mix breed it with another mix breeding, and breed it between generation with some enginering added. The result was eggs that hatched become chicken we know today.

reply to post by patternfinder

first of all, none of that really makes sense, but you can believe what you like, i believe in a creator but i don't limit our creator to some kind of number of 3....to me that's a bit ridiculous and i'm smiling right now because of it....i can link everything that i know of in our reality to a creator, but my links go much deeper than some finite bit of story telling....

Simply because you do not understand physics does not mean I am incorrect or the Bible is incorrect. When I mentioned that Zero is all numbers, you simply need to check the video below from 20 minutest to 24 minutes to have the answer. This is only one area of my commentary that you do not understand. Read my article and you may come to understand. LINK

Originally posted by wrathofall
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Then why are me feet sore after not moving all day?

maybe because it is moving under your feet too....wouldn't it be cool if we could figure out how to make the bottoms of our feet 'kinda tickle" at the end of the day?