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Logic that will make your head spin

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posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Sly1one
reply to post by filosophia
 


All concepts that will warp the mind to the point you aren't really sure that you just went to work and back...

However regarding #6 I would argue the "universe" could very well be infinite and finite...as in a simple circle is finite expressed infinitely in a circle. There is "no such thing as a straight line" which has some serious implication but would explain why/how infinity could exist in harmony with finite. A mobius trip is a good example of how this concept works.

If you fold a "finite" piece of paper 10 inches long into a circle the "length" becomes irrelevant and disappears as you can circumnavigate/travel across its surface infinitely.

I am more and more on board with the idea that “reality”, physics and math and all the tools to explain “reality are just a very complex illusion…

The concept of infinity can drive people insane because they constantly try to unknowingly “quantify” it…and the second they “quantify” infinity they start to realize how incredibly “illogical” movement, time, space, and all together “reality” really is..

edit to add: "reality" is a "quantified" infinity........


Great stuff S&F


edit on 18-9-2011 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)



infinite and finite cancel each other out so therefore we have a nothingness that can be measured




posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by filosophia
 




And, in truth... How do We KNOW something cannot come from nothing?


because we cannot quantitate nothing, in fact, nothing is just a theoretical start to measure something against an unknown non existance.........

edit on 18-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Sly1one
 


Greeks like Zeno and Parmenides believed that Being was One, or "The One" as they called it, which would be like a circle interlocking all the finite points together into an infinite loop. The only problem is that if you have multiple circles (like the Olympic flag of interlocking circles) you have multi-verses that are not inherently connected to each other circularly, but rather only chained together. This could explain why the "universe" seems like it is one but is really made up of separate things.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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Here's an explanation of Logical flaw #3:


Zeno's Paradoxes © Copyright 1997, Jim Loy Among the most famous of Zeno's "paradoxes" involves Achilles and the tortoise, who are going to run a race. Achilles, being confident of victory, gives the tortoise a head start. Zeno supposedly proves that Achilles can never overtake the tortoise. Here, I paraphrase Zeno's argument: Before Achilles can overtake the tortoise, he must first run to point A, where the tortoise started. But then the tortoise has crawled to point B. Now Achilles must run to point B. But the tortoise has gone to point C, etc. Achilles is stuck in a situation in which he gets closer and closer to the tortoise, but never catches him. What Zeno is doing here, and in one of his other paradoxes, is to divide Achilles' journey into an infinite number of pieces. This is certainly permissible, as any line segment can be divided into an infinite number of points or line segments. This, in effect, divides Achilles' run into an infinite number of tasks. He must pass point A, then B, then C, etc. And what Zeno is arguing is that you can't do an infinite number of tasks in a finite amount of time. Why not? Zeno says that you can divide a line into an infinite number of pieces. And then he says that you cannot divide a time interval into an infinite number of pieces. This is inconsistent. There is no paradox here. Zeno was just showing (pretending?) some ignorance of the nature of time. A time interval is just another line segment (when you graph it), that you can divide up in any way you want.

Source.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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So, how was the very first 'something' created?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by filosophia
 


Some of those did, yes. Make My head spin. But the first lies on the ground that something can't come from nothing. This can be shown to be false in that virtual particles "spring from nothing." Or would You call them and their energy nothing?

And, in truth... How do We KNOW something cannot come from nothing?



pics or it ain't true!!!



you have to show me some documentation that suggests virtual particles "spring from nothing", these "virtual particles are actually atoms imitating other atoms....so, they do not "spring from nothing"


Where do You get THIS from. I'll source if You will.


i asked you first, but i will tell you this, just because we cannot measure something doesn't mean it is safe to say it is not there.......plus, when you get far enough down to the most minute particle, we cannot successfully "observe" it because just the act of "observing" will affect the outcome.....read up on entanglement in quantum physics......


Oh, I have read up, My dear. [smile] I understand the observer issue. (And I added an edit with sourcing...)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by magicrat
 


But what is the difference in point a1 and point b other than your scale of measurement?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic
This isn't logic. It's a bunch of made up s***.


Nothing can be made up, as it would have to come from a previous made thing, and that thing from a previous thing, on and on until you have something made up from nothing, which is impossible since nothing can not make anything




You know someone is stupid when despite having living proof of time, space and distance they are still trying to convince others that those three don't exist.


Your living proof is what logic makes a mockery of.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by wrathofall
So, how was the very first 'something' created?


it wasn't, it was, is, and always will be.....



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


This all makes sense if you know that God is infinity at rest. Infinity can be transmuted but never destroyed or added to. Transmutation happens by our concept of the trinity. God is one infinity. He is alpha and omega and all points in between.

Father (Prima Materia of infinity at rest / Light)

Son (Wave / Force / Law)

Holy Spirit (Consciousness / I AM)

Each of these three persons of God is projected into what we see as reality by collapsing infinity into possibility. Nothing becomes something from possibility. Zero is not the absence of numbers, but the presence of all numbers. Take all negatives and add them to all positives and you get Zero (All numbers).

God is one, yet we perceive Him as three. We are one, yet we possess all three. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have an associated wave. The wave carries the particle to form. Consciousness animates the form. We have a body (particle (Father) and wave (Son)). We also have Consciousness. These are the three aspects of the image projected from God. In John 1, we see that the Son is LOGOS, or Word. A Word is the wave that spoke the universe into existence. The universe is the image of God. You are the image of God. My words here in ATS is an image of me, yet these words do not nearly tell you what I am like.

Genesis 1:27
New International Version (NIV)
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Process:

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

The Physics of God



edit on 18-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by filosophia
 




And, in truth... How do We KNOW something cannot come from nothing?


because we cannot quantitate nothing, in fact, nothing is just a theoretical start to measure something against an unknown non existance.........

edit on 18-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)


Just because We cannot quantitate the concept does not mean that something could not spring forth therefrom. (And I say that it cannot be used as measure if it has no known qualities. So "nothing" cannot be placed in a category of having no known qualities, And therefore, though it has no quantity, that it has quality makes it less than "unknown.")



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


I am afraid you do not grasp basic physics.

On statement, nothing can come ou of nothing, I would need [citation needed]

but those questions have been throughly explained before by greater minds, see video bellow


See, its like you try to argue with words the logic of the quantum physics, which cannot be argued by words, it can only be argued by mathematics. For example when you can either measure the speed or position of quantum particle, you cannot do both. Seems contradictory, but thats the way it is.

You question what was before big bang... well before bing bang there was not space-time, thus there was no before, because there was no time.

Stop doing arguments from ignorance. Just because you cant understand something does not mean its not true.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Druid42



And what Zeno is arguing is that you can't do an infinite number of tasks in a finite amount of time. Why not? Zeno says that you can divide a line into an infinite number of pieces. And then he says that you cannot divide a time interval into an infinite number of pieces.




Since movement is possible (at least from a sense perception), it must be that we can do an infinite number of tasks because we have an infinite number of time (this would clear up the paradox you are saying against Zeno). The only way we can have an infinite number of time is if we are infinite. Since two infinities can not exist (infinity is already the maximum, and you can't have infinity plus infinity, that would just be infinity squared, or, infinity), reality must be One

So reality is infinite and on...so movement is still impossible.



edit on 18-9-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by patternfinder
 


I think whether or not people want to believe it, I see no other answer!



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by filosophia
 


This all makes sense if you know that God is infinity at rest. Infinity can be transmuted but never destroyed or added to. Transmutation happens by our concept of the trinity. God is one infinity. He is alpha and omega and all points in between.

Father (Prima Materia of infinity at rest / Light)

Son (Wave / Force / Law)

Holy Spirit (Consciousness / I AM)

Each of these three persons of God is projected into what we see as reality by collapsing infinity into possibility. Nothing becomes something from possibility. Zero is not the absence of numbers, but the presence of all numbers. Take all negatives and add them to all positives and you get Zero (All numbers).

God is one, yet we perceive Him as three. We are one, yet we possess all three. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have an associated wave. The wave carries the particle to form. Consciousness animates the form. We have a body (particle (Father) and wave (Son). We also have Consciousness. These are the three aspects of the image projected from God. In John 1, we see that the Son is LOGOS, or Word. A Word is the wave spoke the universe into existence. The universe is the image of God. You are the image of God. My words here in ATS is an image of me, yet does not nearly tell you what I am like.

Genesis 1:27
New International Version (NIV)
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Process:

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

The Physics of God





first of all, none of that really makes sense, but you can believe what you like, i believe in a creator but i don't limit our creator to some kind of number of 3....to me that's a bit ridiculous and i'm smiling right now because of it....i can link everything that i know of in our reality to a creator, but my links go much deeper than some finite bit of story telling....



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Heckren
 


From ignorance and doubt is the only way knowledge can be obtained, so in response to your statement about stop making arguments from ignorance, I will respond by saying: start making arguments from ignorance.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Heckren
reply to post by filosophia
 


I am afraid you do not grasp basic physics.

On statement, nothing can come ou of nothing, I would need [citation needed]

but those questions have been throughly explained before by greater minds, see video bellow


See, its like you try to argue with words the logic of the quantum physics, which cannot be argued by words, it can only be argued by mathematics. For example when you can either measure the speed or position of quantum particle, you cannot do both. Seems contradictory, but thats the way it is.

You question what was before big bang... well before bing bang there was not space-time, thus there was no before, because there was no time.

Stop doing arguments from ignorance. Just because you cant understand something does not mean its not true.



in the ever and never existing words of 'Pete' in 'Oh Brother Where Art thou?':

"that don't make no sense"



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


This crap is exactly how I think in my head. No wonder nobody can understand what I am talking about half the time.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Heckren
 


From ignorance and doubt is the only way knowledge can be obtained, so in response to your statement about stop making arguments from ignorance, I will respond by saying: start making arguments from ignorance.



bravo!!!!!
very well said filosophia!!!! ignorance seems to be an inescapable starting point doesn't it?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by filosophia
 


This crap is exactly how I think in my head. No wonder nobody can understand what I am talking about half the time.



i think about it so much that i have been dislocated from reality as the majority knows it as.....my body is the only thing anchoring me here, and i hate that......



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