Should openly gay men shower with straight men in the army?

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Yep, too complicated. That is why homosexuals should not serve. It isn't my problem though. I know how we dealt with it in my day.

I'm beginning to think you are a closet homosexual.
I mean, you did join the navy and all.

jk about the navy part lol.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Amen brother. That is why I have not even bothered to respond to such absurd statements.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Yep, too complicated. That is why homosexuals should not serve. It isn't my problem though. I know how we dealt with it in my day.

Back den, we used to string up dem gays...

Yes, many closet homosexuals whom want to use their privates on them get frustrated and so instead use their fists...same thing, desired physical contact with the gay person..albeit with different outcomes.

I am not overly bothered about gay men, because I am not gay...outwardly or secretly. the ones screaming the loudest are quite often the ones trying to tuck in a inconvenient truth about themselves.

So yes...the old way was to take a phallic symbol (fist and arm) and smack it all over the gay person..because you know..they weren't gay or nothing...heh...like throwing worms in the hair of that cute girl in kindergarden..nope, don't like you at all..hense why I am constantly around you, harassing you, and being generally mean...

Ahh young love.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Homosexuals should not be serving in the military imo. Since they are, they should definitely have separate facilities from straights. If the opinion is "what difference does it make", then tell me why straight men cannot just go ahead and use the same showers as the straight women? Obviously, it does make a difference.

this post, your next post, simply wonderful. there just aren't enough combination homophobes / internet tough guys on any website. if there were no gays or lesbians in the Armed Forces America would not have enough people power to safely defend our borders, much less have a huge show of force around the planet.

as for men showering with women, that is a horse of another color. there is a large percentage of young people in the military. libidos run very high in one's youth, going hand in hand with a lack of maturity. it would be unwise to put young naked females and males in hot steamy soapy showers together, it's easy to see this would quickly result in unwanted advances and charges being pressed. Americans overall are nearly retarded in their sexuality. We aren't raised with healthy open attitudes toward our bodies and sexuality as people are in Europe.

seriously though OP, a shower is a shower. they are soldiers getting cleaned up. i would imagine that discretion would come first and people would keep to themselves in such a situation.

i doubt many fellows are out of the closet in the USA military. they are surrounded by too many dangerous people lacking education and sophistication. small hick town breeding does not lend to a worldly wise point of view.

From my point of view, I do not have an issue sharing an open locker room shower with women, some of whom may be lesbian. I am not a prude by any means, however I would have an issue sharing an open locker room shower with guys, straight or gay... There are some places (especially in public or work environments) that are better segregated by gender and not by sexual orientation. Call me old-fashioned, but the shower is one of those places.

Should straight men shower with straight men in the military??

It might turn them into raging homosexuals!!!!

So am I a closet Bilderburg since I criticize them?

Oh I am against pollution openly, that means I am a closet polluter.

If someone is openly gay, does that mean they are a closet hetero?

I can assume the opposite of what people tell me but IMHO that would be the most illogical thing I could possibly do.

This is just merely a philosophical question / point.

Anyone who uses this logic to insult those they disagree with care to explain their reasoning instead of just making insults and jokes at people they don't like?

Also, isn't that what the homosexual folks have been complaining about all along? People who disagree with them make fun of them and insult them unfairly all the time?
Don't insult my sexuality, but it's ok to insult yours.

It's a real shame that people cannot be consistent in their belief system. Dare I say it's rather hypocritical?

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by sonofliberty1776

 

There has been plenty of homosexuals who have lasted in the military.
So you have no argument.
In fact, I have served in the military.
And I've seen huge straight guys cry like babies.
So once again, you have no argument.

edit on 17-9-2011 by GmoS719 because: (no reason given)

I could tell you some stories about what has happened to some openly gay sailors. "Accidents" happen all the time.

Yes accidents happen because braindead homophobes make them happen. I'm a vet and never had any problems with the gays that were in my unit. But then again I'm not insecure in my sexuality.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Yep, too complicated. That is why homosexuals should not serve. It isn't my problem though. I know how we dealt with it in my day.

[sigh]

SOL... I'd say You're SOL on this one.

If "God" had meant this to be this big of an issue, don't You think (S)He/It would have made more of a fuss about homosexual relationships? We find more proscriptions against many other things - and things incorporated now, like the eating of cloven-hoofed animals - than of homosexuality.

IF You choose to think in ways that make You uncomfortable, do not expect Others to bear the brunt. Personally, I agree with the poster above. Feel good about Yourself that someOne was attracted. Think of it that way.

You won't have to give the Guy head that's giving You the eye. (Pardon My crude approach.)

I'm just thinking that a rational person would consider the rather abundant evidence of homosexual behavior in nature - gulls that turn gay when the population density reaches a certain point, for example - and look at how, over all, "God" didn't put much energy into the issue (and there was plenty of homosexual relations going on, even then), why should I?

Focus on removing the grime, and not on whether anOther is looking at You with appreciation.

Originally posted by buster2010

Yes accidents happen because braindead homophobes make them happen. I'm a vet and never had any problems with the gays that were in my unit. But then again I'm not insecure in my sexuality.

You just insulted someone's sexuality by calling them a homophobe.

You just said insulting someone's sexuality insinuates they are insecure.

Does this indicate you are insecure?

----I personally don't think so, but I am showing the flaw in utilizing ad hominem attacks to prove a point.

My opinion = Sexuality is not my business. I'll worry about mine, you worry about yours'. And we can just be friends and avoid this personal issue because it's honestly not an interesting subject at all. Can't we cooperate and spend our time debating productive subjects?

I would not to serve with anyone who did not shower.

Gay or Straight.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Because in the military, you are a UNIT. A cohesive machine. You work together as one, you eat as one, you breathe as one, you function as one, and you fight as one.

You are a perfect machine that works together in all things. That is the point! That is why the showering must happen together as well. It's to break down the mental barrier of separation in order to create a tactically perfect machine of lethal unity.

reply to post by Amaterasu


I have friends who claim to be gay, but I don't care.

I don't want to know about it. I don't even wanna know what my straight friends do, that's gross too!

I don't tell people about what I do with my wife. I regret even mentioning it in this statement because I am now skirting closely to contradicting myself.

I don't even brag about when I 'get some'. It's not interesting and other people are offended by it typically. I keep my sexuality private.

I just wish everyone else would too. But I can't have a perfect world now can I?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Also whats up the the insults?

I see "homophobe" all the time, and that's fine? But no one ever says "heterophobe", that's strange.

What the hell is a hetrophobe?
Even the most flaming gay flamer with rainbows shooting out of their chest likes straight people...someone has to breed.

Plus, if someone criticizes say, Christianity, does that automatically mean they are a closet-Christian? No....

Arguably...a skeptic is quite often a closet wannabe believer, but they require solid proof.
hense why they are always discussing and demanding to see proof...a desire to believe in something, but not without their watermark of facts.

So how the heck are people connecting "criticizing something" with "secretly supporting it"? This is the lamest excuse of all, by far. It's such a fad to repeat but it actually has no legitimate basis at all and is an insult. Highly inaccurate as well.

This is psychology 101
You can not like something, sure...I personally don't like homosexual acts and seeing a couple guys kiss sort of weirds me out still, hense why I tend to look away when I see it.

However, when you have a core reaction that effects you personally enough to breathlessly try and oppose something, chances are, your deflecting something...its a personal attack on you (as only personal attacks against you can effect you to such an extent)
For instance.
China kills whales...that sucks
China wants to kill your dog specifically...oh HELL NO!
See, it effects you personally
So, some gay guy kisses another gay guy...and you have the oh HELL NO reaction...that means it effected you personally, and if you let your logic go a little bit, then you know what its effecting...your sense of sexual attraction..something is attacking that and your defending it, and you only defend things you feel is not strong enough to stand.

Countless examples of how humans react strongly to things that effect them personally..its a simple science...dislike, sure...passionately hate? only if it effects you.

I find the playing field totally uneven here. And the information is also skewed and inaccurate.

The playing field is diminishing because education in western society is progressing past the black and white false mindset of the 50s and instead progressing into an actual understanding of the human condition
aka, there are less morons around that know how to use a computer.

When I criticize the Government does that mean I secretly support them?

I think everyone supports the concept of government, and the more we want it to work well, the louder we scream when it works poorly...because we expect more. But this is a strawman argument, so moving on...

How about if I criticize rapist or murderers, does that mean I am secretly a rapist or murderer?

We all are, or have the capability of becoming one. Can you criticise someone whom -wants- to murder someone, or considered just taking the easy route and rapeing someone? no...they are just thinking, its when they do it is when its a problem..
But both acts are criminal and hurt others unwillingly, so another strawman argument. This is more about if someone had consensual sex and you were flipping out about that (because being anti-gay is just that)..ya, that is a bit odd actually.

Give me a break people. Enough with this nonsense.

Ahh, but without nonsense, what would we do on this fine saturday?

Sorry for the book, waiting for my drive to finish a sweep.

Yes, even straight men take peeks every now and then. (Well that's what someone told me....please you have to believe me!)

But this is a completely non-sexual peek and is more or less a chance to point n laugh should the opposing manhood be in the fetal position.


Now, you could just say "Oh who cares who showers with who or who is secretly taking a perv at the BBQ on display"

I guess "some" men may feel uncomfortable with this, which is understandable, because If a women were in the same situation as suddenly showering with unknown men, she also would feel the exact same feelings of nakedness etc.

But we now live in a politically correct world and there shouldn't be a rule for one person, and a second rule for another. This is what angers me about political correctness, its only politically correct when they choose it to be.

So if you aren't going to throw gender and sexuality together in the same shower block, then you must segregate them into sexual political correctness.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I don't say Oh Hell No though.

I honestly just don't care if they eat each other like cannibals. Not my gig.

Just don't eat me.

Oh but if you are giving out free $$$, I care now and would like some please.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

Ok good answer, but my point being, could you help yourself form looking at her body if you found yourself in that situation?
What would make you turn away?
morality,
fidelity,
supression of your natural desires?
Homosexuality (I am not gay by the way) has no bearing on the effectiveness of a warrior. The Spartans and the Samurai both recognised that homosexuality was a part of life but didn't detract from their effectiveness as warriors, far from it.
It sadly seems that to love is a crime but to kill is a virtue.

I believe that barriers should remain intact when it comes to a lot of things which involve sexuality but i'm sure the guys in the military who shower together have better things to think about when in the military.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Because in the military, you are a UNIT. A cohesive machine. You work together as one, you eat as one, you breathe as one, you function as one, and you fight as one.

You are a perfect machine that works together in all things. That is the point! That is why the showering must happen together as well. It's to break down the mental barrier of separation in order to create a tactically perfect machine of lethal unity.

Call me skeptical.

How is that Afghanistan thing working out?

I'd have to say this is illogical and inconsistent with success in war.

I can shoot a rifle equally as good and I will save anyone on my team no matter who they are even if I haven't showered in 6months. I am a good guy, I'll help my team.

I don't need to shower with anyone to know right from wrong.

Depends if your a Catholic, nerd or rapist.