The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

You people do realize the kkk used an american flag at there rallies and marches. The myth that they used a confederate flag was from movies so the whole argument that its racist because the kkk doesn't make sense. As for the civil war slavery was a side issue it was about state rights. I guess to explain the south didnt believe the government had the right to dictate anything on a state the south saw the states as independent governments working together. The north saw 1 government controlling each state. Slavery was just a side issue that could be used since at the time there were slaves held in the north as well. As for the rebel flag it can mean different things to different people so who are we to put our beliefs on someone else. Not to mention ive all ways wanted the general lee from the dukes of hazzard but i dont think im racist. Really guys how much fun would that be!

reply to post by xEphon


To be against the Confederate Flag is racism because it is denying a very large ethnic group their right to their symbols and beliefs.

reply to post by TravisT

Sorry, but that argument does not hold water.

Offense is not something the offender can even control. As an example, take your use of the word "fag" in that post directed at me. It was not intended to be offensive, based on the context in which it was used, and therefore any offense I might take is not your doing... it is mine.

If someone asks me why I am flying a 'racist' flag, I look on it as an opportunity to educate them on the true meaning of the Confederate Flag. If they still choose to be offended, well, they apparently want to be offended. That is not my doing; I do not control their thoughts. In this thread, I have attempted to explain why the Confederate Flag is not intended to be offensive. Those who disagree with me are simply demonstrating that they believe my culture to be inherently racist, and that is their right. That right does not confer on me a duty to change their inherent prejudice.

Now, if legal means are used to stop my free display of symbols because of someone else's misconceptions, now we have a problem. And that is actually being done, not far from me: [link] [link]

Ironically, the Civil War was started over an attempt by one group (northern states) to exercise unwanted and unwarranted legal control over another group (southern states). Those same attempts are going on today, as indicated by a few in this very thread. I really don't blame them so much as I blame the media and social engineers who have spoon-fed them this rubbish for so many years, but in the end they are responsible for themselves and their lack of education on the subject. It's not like the information is not out there.

So, what was that definition of insanity again? "Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results"?

The Civil War was the most costly era in the history of the US, in terms of American lives lost, in terms of property damage, and in terms of social damage. Must we repeat it? Really? Is it that important to you to be able to tell me what I believe? Important enough to watch your family, your friends, your neighbors die horribly?

Or can we just finally accept that others may think differently from our narrow perspective on the world, and that we have no right to enforce our own prejudices on them?

I have made my decision. I will be who I am and allow others to be who they are, even if I don't understand them. I will try to live in peace, but not at the cost of myself and my beliefs. Which choice do you make?

TheRedneck

I suppose we should ban the American Flag to. At that time all Americans had the Freedom to own slaves. It amazes me how many people here call themselves Americans. When they don't know the history of the civil war.

Americans want freedom of speech when they have something to say, but when they don't like something another person may be expressing Freedom of speech becomes a crime!. This drives me to madness.

You either want freedom of speech and expression or you don't. Not when it's convenient for you. It's either Freedom of speech all the time or not at all. You can't have it both ways.

The confederate flag is a symbol that means different things to different people. To me it's a symbol of the Revolutionary war. Has that symbol been misused sure has. But I know people that use their middle finger to point at something and others that use it for other things.

This is perception. Sure a some may see it as a racial slur. Some people see it as an artifact of American history.

I shave my head well because I'm getting kind of thin up there. So now I'm a skin head. We should ban shaving your head in this country because it's the symbol of a skin head. We should round up any person not of African decent and put them in jail because it's racist to have a shaved head.

I truly believe that the Racism issue in this country are killing our right to freely express ourselves as Americans.

You either want freedom all the time or not at all. You can't pick and choose when or how you want your freedom. You either want it or you don't. Banning any kind of free speech in this country is Un American.

reply to post by GrassyKnoll


Don't you mean reverse racism?

I grew up in the deep south around mostly an african american community in my early years. I was a country boy, and one of the few whites. The weaker of the pack got picked on and called racist names, I was even called a racist name by my black coach at a age when older people are supposed to teach you values.

But given my color and how I am, I had black, asian, latin, all types of friends and as our families shared meals and sleepovers and as we grew up together with my diverse wolfpack of friends, southern pride or not, I NEVER agreed or supported the Rebel Flag for my generation has no need for it, if someone in my age realm sports a flag I believe it is to show they are country/rebel and proud, and I think that is just code for ( I'm racist and proud) not with all but with most, and this is coming from a place where the battle still rages on in Mississippi.

It happens on both sides of races. Racism is not a white or black thing. Every race talks about the other in jokes of race, I have seen it all. And seeing that has made me seen the truth even more and has strengthened my relationship with my friends of another race.

IMO the confederate flag is a distrubing trend. Sorry if some disagree.

to those that say the civil war was not about slavery, from the confederate constitution "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." every one of the "declarations of secession" mentions how the north was trying to contain slavery.

state rights= the right to own slaves.

however, there were other reasons as well, as war is a complicated thing.

as to the flag, it is/was a symbol of rebellion and treason to the u.s. my family has farmed dirt in the south for over 200 yrs, so i know all about southern culture and pride. as a symbol of the south and history, i support it, provided it flies below the u.s. flag.

in my mind, the symbol of the flag depends on the person that waves it. as a symbol of southern heritage, thats one thing, as all southern people can be proud of our unique culture, food, and manners. as a symbol of treason and rebellion, thats another. as a symbol of racism, well, racists are stupid.

in the end, you must decide if youre an american or not? if so, then you support the constitution and will work within its framework to get things done. sometimes you win, sometimes not. if youre not, then you support treason, rebellion, sedition, and just like the south, will be defeated.

p.s. if a private citizen wants to fly the flag, so be it provided it does not fly equal to or higher than the u.s. flag. however, the gov, unless part of historical reenactments or some such, should never sanction it, as politically it does represent a defeated enemy army.

I am sure the American flag to Native Indians in America
represents more then racism.
I think the United State Flag represents Genocide to them and
and many people of the middle east as our troops and drones kill millions
same as we did to the native people of our own country.

Good old fashioned ignorance in my opinion, and anyone who says the flag is about 'freedom' is talking out of their bum. I remember the rednecks in highschool flying the 'rebel' flag on the back of their trucks in a little parade after school about 3 times a week, and mind you I live in Michigan. Anytime I see these fools flying their 'colors' I either remind them, or myself that they lost for a reason.

Hmmm, I think this may be what happened with the swastika round about 80 years ago (though, granted, it was inverted from the form associated with Eastern religions)...

...or with the KKK gear, which if you paint purple and give them a few whips, you're talking Semana Santa in Spain.

I guess some things get confusing based on who derives meaning out of them.

I guess, the trend I would associate with more and more Confederate flags would be less racism and more anti-Washington sentiment, especially if I saw them in PA...which, is a potentially more disturbing trend depending on how it continues...and for what reason.

reply to post by tankerpilot


Sorry, but the Civil Was was about slavery, and if your read the articles of confederation by the Southern states for seceding, they clearly stated that the reason for seceding was their right to own slaves.

You should also know that the famous Lincoln Douglas debates were about slavery. "Slavery is a stain on our nation".

The people claiming different are propagandist liars.

A more accurate depiction of the truth is that a majority of people in the south opposed seceding. Rich plantation owners ruthlessly controlled the south before the civil war. People forget that West Virginia separated from Virginia, refusing to join the confederacy, and that Kentucky was on the side of the union, and Tennessee was very split over the war.

Heck, during the revolutionary war, a large portion of the southern plantation owners were loyalists to the king. Are those the people you want to support? They weren't rebels, they are loyalists, supported by England during the civil war, all to eager to bow to the king.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by TravisT

Sorry, but that argument does not hold water.

Offense is not something the offender can even control. As an example, take your use of the word "fag" in that post directed at me. It was not intended to be offensive, based on the context in which it was used, and therefore any offense I might take is not your doing... it is mine.

If someone asks me why I am flying a 'racist' flag, I look on it as an opportunity to educate them on the true meaning of the Confederate Flag. If they still choose to be offended, well, they apparently want to be offended. That is not my doing; I do not control their thoughts. In this thread, I have attempted to explain why the Confederate Flag is not intended to be offensive. Those who disagree with me are simply demonstrating that they believe my culture to be inherently racist, and that is their right. That right does not confer on me a duty to change their inherent prejudice.

Yes, and if I go around, and say someone is looking faggy, and they bark back, I see that as an opportunity to educate them on the true meaning of the word. If they still choose to be offended, well, they apparently want to be offended. That is my doing, I don't control their thoughts. In this thread, I have attempted to explain why the word "fag" is completely fine word to throw around with no repercussions. Those who disagree with me are simple demonstrating that they believe my vernacular is inherently rude, and that is their right. But that right does not confer on my duty to change their misunderstandings of dialect, when it should be clear what the origin of the word "fag" is. There is no way one would get that mixed up.

reply to post by littled16


Old Glory flew over slavery for 100 + years the rebel flag only 3 years. The civil war was about unfair taxation not slavery. The Gettysburg address was given late into the war because the South was getting support from foriegn countries, and Lincoln tried to turn it into a moral war. While Sherman started his campaign of burning everything and leaving women and kids on the side of the road naked. So you are saying I am a racist because my Great grand dad got his left arm blown off and died in a northern concentration camp?
The KKK also flew the American and Christian flag why is the rebel flag the one that is picked on?
To the victor goes the spoils and they have rewritten history to make them seem like the good guys.
Uncle Tom's cabin never happened it as propaganda.
When I was stationed up north the people were more prejudice then in Mississippi.
The KKK is evil so are the black panthers.... Just because the flag was present when they march does not make it a symbol of hate. It is part of my family heritage and I am proud of my family that has been fighting in every conflict since the Revolution.
The confederate flag was created to distiguish battle fields, the stars and bars looked to much like the American flag when the wind was not blowing. Robert E Lee has always been associated with this flag, did you know he did not like its looks and refused to fly it? But again history rewritten.
you need to get out of the federal text books and research thru the articles of the time and read real history.
I am offended by alot of stuff but it is the other persons choice wether to wear things that offend me and my family, it is my job to teach my kids what is appropiate or not. Etc.... all I ask is that you research the facts instead of just regurgitating what you hear.

www.youtube.com...#!

He Claims to be a Southern Man that his rights are being violated.

reply to post by stormson


Isn't that pot calling the kettle black? the US had similar verbage in their structure.When you point 3 fingers point back.

reply to post by TravisT

Exactly.

I agree with your post completely... well, except for the '' at the end.

It's called 'denying ignorance'.

TheRedneck

(Yes, I know you wrote that as sarcasm. But in your attempt you actually made perfect sense to me.)

He see's History and The Flag is a part of his history.
He off to see Obama with the Flag of his Heritage.

Originally posted by xEphon
The confederate flag always has and always will be about racism.

This seems like an absolutist declaration! Do you understand how this is seen by some to be hypocrisy, because you are declaring a flag to be symbolic only of racism when there are other interpretations of the meaning of the confederate flag. So you are declaring with absolute authority (of your own opinion) what the flag will symbolize for all time.

The Confederate flag that you speak of isn't the Confederate flag at all, it is the battle flag of Northern Virginia. Before you claim that something is racist, make sure that you know what you're talking about. I'm sure that by me pointing out your ignorance you will label me as a racist.

reply to post by poet1b


This is the same Lincoln that was trying to figure out were to send the freed slaves, he also coined the belief that blacks were 3/5 human which maintained until the early 1970's.
Lincoln also was known for imprisoning people who did not agree with him. Threatened and later arrested the Maryland legislature.
Newspapers that printed unfavorable things about him were burned at night.
"honest Abe" was actually a jeer as the President was known for talking out of both sides of his mouth.
In 1860 in the New York Times there was an article about a train ride thru Virginia. The reporter was appauld at how the Lady was treating her mistress(slave) as they talked like sisters while their children ate out of the same bag of candy.
You say the south is responsible for slavery but New York and Boston is were they were bought and sold.
Hypocrites.......
Slavery was already on its way out before the civil war, the north even passed a law that any slave born into slavery was to be freed at the age of 18. So children were sold to the south so they would remain slaves. It was also an attempt by the North to get all slaves down south for when slavery stopped they would all be down South.

Another falsehood is that all slave owners were horrible to their slaves, rich landowners.
when in fact the largest slave owner in La. was a black lady google black slave owners.
most farmers of the south were share croppers and worked along side with their slaves.
look it up