The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Hate to break the news to you, the only war fought over slavery was with John Brown.
Guess what!.... It was those Yankee Feds who saw that he be executed. It was also the Yanks who made laws to send federal marshals to capture runaway slaves etc.

Yep there was slavery on both sides, but that wasn't what the CW was about.

Your in fantasy land if you think the other.

reply to post by imitator


I am in fantasy land for stating the fact that slavery was one of the issues fought over during the civil war?



Sure,what ever you say, chief.....

There were many issues being fought over during the Civil War. Slavery was one of them...

Lincoln, honestly did not care whether the slaves were freed or not. It was about keeping the union together for him. Which is why the Union attacked first. The confederates were considered a threat to the United States of America. If you think I don't know what I am on about, you are wrong.

The fact is, it was an issue though. It was one issue that was fought over during the civil war. The south fought in favor of it. The north did not.


But you just go right ahead and keep denying that. Nothing else I can say to you on this subject....

You believe what you want. I will believe the truth.

If I roll my eyes any harder they will fall out, so.... I will just leave you with this...

militaryhistory.about.com...
www.ket.org...
www.us-civilwar.com...

Just some.... light reading for you.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Your saying the North started the war over slavery..... if so you would be VERY wrong . Like I said it's simple, the North feared the south becoming it's own economic power/ country. Nothing about slavery in that. Both had them before the war...

reply to post by imitator


I am NOT saying that.....

I am saying that slavery was one of the issues fought over during the civil war...



I have stated in this thread that the war was started by the north for economic reasons and even that Lincoln did not care about whether or not the slaves were freed.... I have stated that slavery existed all over the country before the war.

One of the issues fought over during the civil war, was slavery.... As such, the north fought to end it. The south fought to continue it. Yes, they fought over other things... But slavery was one of the things fought over during the civil war.


That is fact.Pure and simple. I cannot say it any more clearly for you.

Again, for the record folks. I don't care if a person flies the flag or not. I am just speaking out in support of those who dislike the flag. Why? Because their feelings ARE justifiable. Every bit as justifiable as the feelings of the supporters. I just think it would be nice to see a supporter, admit that, is all.

Good night.

I'm in Illinois, been since I was born. Up by Chicago, within the last year moved to southern Illinois. I reenact the Confederacy as a female Civil War persona.

I thought it was humorous in an ironic way when I found out that once slaves were freed, the North held to theirs for a LONG time after the South gave theirs freedom xDDD.

Just one thing I LOVE to inform the uninformed about when they bawwww that the South was sooo evil .Did you all know that most slave owners treated their slaves well? Only a wee few were abusive. But again, something people won't listen to.

Originally posted by sarra1833

Just one thing I LOVE to inform the uninformed about when they bawwww that the South was sooo evil .Did you all know that most slave owners treated their slaves well? Only a wee few were abusive. But again, something people won't listen to.

Yeah, I know a lot of slaves were treated well. A lot were not as well.

Are you trying to say that it is okay to buy and sell human beings and force them to work for nothing as long as they are not abused?

If that is not what you are saying... You should consider rewording it... Because I can see why people don't listen to you, when you say that.

Anyway,I really need to get to bed.

So good night and thanks for the debate folks.

Peace and love.

Double post.

reply to post by xEphon


This is a fools perspective. Looks like you quit on learning history the second you got out of highschool. It has never been about racism. As I've said a million times though, it's not your fault you don't know. The American history they teach in school is soo messed up.

Slave owners were rich. Rich people, by and large, do not fight in wars. Not in the 1860's, and not today.

To say that the Southern soldiers were fighting to maintain slavery is preposterous. To say that people flying Confederate flags are doing so for racist reasons is equally preposterous.

There are, of course, exceptions to any generalities.

The real reason the South was fighting can be summed up in two words: States Rights.

The South did not wish to be subject to foreign rule, whether that rule originated in London or Washington D.C. They highly valued the right of self-determination.

The flag is a symbol of that mindset, not of racism.

reply to post by littled16


That's because you have been indoctrinated by the government and only taught a fraction of the real history of American in schools. Which isnt your fault that is what they wanted to teach in schools.
They don't want people to ever side with revolutionaries, so of course they want them to be painted as racists in public schools.

reply to post by littled16


dbl post.

I don't think that is disturbing at all, if it is true. I would consider it extremely positive.

My one overwhelming point of contention with Abraham Lincoln, from what I have read about him, was his commitment to keeping the union intact at any cost. I have never considered federalism a beneficial thing, in any country or in any form.

As many states should attempt to secede from the Union as possible; and they should do so simultaneously, so that there is less chance for the federalists to be able to stop them. Federalism needs to be recognised as the dysfunctional tyranny that it is.

What ever it symbolizes, it seems to be endorsed by a lot of racist people.

reply to post by sparrowstail


Yeah, because those people were racist with or without the flag. When they teach in the school that the flag is racist (because of course american schools want to denounce a flag of American revolutionaries) then racists will cling to it and people that aren't will be against it. Either way, both of those types are indoctrinated and have a skewed perception of that flag.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by sparrowstail

 

Yeah, because those people were racist with or without the flag. When they teach in the school that the flag is racist (because of course american schools want to denounce a flag of American revolutionaries) then racists will cling to it and people that aren't will be against it. Either way, both of those types are indoctrinated and have a skewed perception of that flag.

As did Hitler with the Swastika. The point remains the symbol is tarnished for ever and its association embedded.
I do see your point though. Seems like the flag is collateral damage. Still would like to see how long the General Lee would last in downtown Detroit.

I do not get why people are always arguing about this flag. You can only apply the meaning the individual flag bearer believes that particular flag to have. It has different meanings to different people. Not everyone that flies that flag believes in racism. Some do. Some dont.
Just like not everyone who flies the flag of the United States of America believes in war, oppression, murder, expansion, conquest....
At the time the North was supposedly fighting against slavery, they were killing and enslaving Native Americans at the same time

reply to post by xEphon

The confederate flag always has and always will be about racism.

I live in GA, and conferate supporters down here will tell you themselves, the flag does not represent rascism....how ignorant to even think that.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by imitator

 

Lincoln, honestly did not care whether the slaves were freed or not. It was about keeping the union together for him.

Lincoln made it an issue because he was losing the war to one of the greatest military leaders in history with a force of inferior numbers and resources. In short, Lincoln needed a ready supply of 250K meat shields and cannon fodder, so he freed the slaves to serve as such.

Which is why the Union attacked first.

Ft. Sumter: first shots of War by Confederacy.

The fact is, it was an issue though. It was one issue that was fought over during the civil war. The south fought in favor of it. The north did not.

The South fought for many reasons, but most of the people didn't fight about slavery. They fought because a force of arms was taken up against them. General Lee was staunchly anti-slavery, probably as much so as Lincoln, but he believed in the Confederacy.

/TOA

Hey Mods...this may be a slight departure, but not reall, considering the course this conversation has taken.

Some say the Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of racism... racists fly the flag, therefore it is a symbols of racism.

The KKK uses white sheets for outfits..and is a well known historical symbol...white sheets are used by racists..

As such, White Sheets are symbols of racism

Only racists have white sheets...so, how many clean, white sheet using "racists" are in the group now?