Freemasons are Good Guys(Spirit Science)

reply to post by DRAZIW


When have Masons claimed they know things other do not ? Many brothers on here has repeatedly pointed out where to find the same knowledge we know concerning Freemasonry (and many other things unrelated to Freemasonry) , by posting links to web sites , names of books and where to purchase or download said books or outright told others the knowledge they have .

Others claimed we have secrets and yet the Masons on here have pointed out that anything and everything has already been put into print . So , what is this knowledge we have that others do not ?

Originally posted by Arcot
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

You Proved you know nothing from Previous post

let me know if there is motherhood in what ancient text you read that Freemason in brotherhood and Illuminati is fatherhood there is no hood their is only teacher and his follower or fellow masons

There's no motherhood. Another difference between the Freemasons and the Illuminati is that masons are "initiated" by some other mason, who must be a master mason, but who is different from lodge to lodge and from time to time. But the illuminati have only one initiator, that has remained the same since the dawn of time.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by network dude

 

I figured Masons studied the metaphysics of the Hebrew Bible... But from which perspective is the question..........

I know and study the Torah often, in Hebrew, and am quite acquainted with its inner meaning. I wonder if you and i would know the same things. You a FreeMason, and me, not a Freemason. Just a guy with a love for knowledge.

There is no direct doctrine of things we study, there are keys and clues all over that will direct you to another source of you are diligent enough and care enough to do the legwork. But most if not all of the information is not secretly hidden from all but masons, rather it is out in the world for all to find. Just as you are searching. Don't fall for the hype about secrets, they are just there to draw attention.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Originally posted by Arcot
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

You Proved you know nothing from Previous post

let me know if there is motherhood in what ancient text you read that Freemason in brotherhood and Illuminati is fatherhood there is no hood their is only teacher and his follower or fellow masons

There's no motherhood. Another difference between the Freemasons and the Illuminati is that masons are "initiated" by some other mason, who must be a master mason, but who is different from lodge to lodge and from time to time. But the illuminati have only one initiator, that has remained the same since the dawn of time.

This "Illuminati" you speak of, how do you know they still exist? Are they directly related to the Bavarian Illuminati? Do they have the same goals the Original group did? Where can I find this group today?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Originally posted by network dude
This "Illuminati" you speak of, how do you know they still exist? Are they directly related to the Bavarian Illuminati? Do they have the same goals the Original group did? Where can I find this group today?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

I know they exist because I have seen the one initiator myself. He is visible to the naked eye, but is not seen even so by most people. They of the Illuminati are all around you. But, they do not identify themselves in the same way Freemasons do. You can find them only when they decide to select you. There's no "petition" to join them. They are referred to many times in the Bible. So, they have been around for at least 2000 years continuously, and probably much longer than that. In the Bible they are given no particular name, they are not called "Illuminati" there, instead they are just "described" there in various verses. Unlike Freemasons, who are "Free, Individual, Independent", the Illuminati are "Bound, United, Dependent" . If we say Freemasons stand on one end of the ladder, the Illuminati stand on the other end of the ladder. So, you can use all your knowledge about Freemasonry, to figure out the characteristics of the Illuminati, and to identify the verses in the Bible that describe them, and then to begin to understand where to look to find the evidence of the real Illuminati. Although, a Freemason "can" find "evidence" of their existence, he still cannot find them until they choose him. It is not that they are in hiding, it is just that the uninitiated cannot see, or rather, cannot recognize what he does see.

reply to post by DRAZIW


That's a cool story. How is it you know about them yet most of the rest of the world is of the idea that the Illuminati was formed in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt? How do you suppose Weishaupt came up with that name? Maybe he met the dude you were talking about. I bet they were pissed when he took their name. But I suppose it's their fault for not demanding fair listing the Good Book.

Our patron saints made it in the record book. John the Baptist and John the Evangelist both got their names in print. I guess they won.

Originally posted by network dude
How is it you know about them yet most of the rest of the world is of the idea that the Illuminati was formed in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt?

Stop taking your lithium and I will let you know aaaaaaalllllllll about it.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

That's a cool story. How is it you know about them yet most of the rest of the world is of the idea that the Illuminati was formed in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt?

Most of the rest of the world? No. You choose to focus on Weishaupt. He is the most popular because of the 1776 date for the American Declaration of Independence, which happens to be in the same year he announced the name "illuminati" to the world, and American dominance currently makes anything linked to America fascinating to many, especially to Americans.

How do you suppose Weishaupt came up with that name? Maybe he met the dude you were talking about. I bet they were pissed when he took their name. But I suppose it's their fault for not demanding fair listing the Good Book.

The name was in existance before him. But, it's easy to understand the reason for the name. The one initiator is "illuminating" the world right now.

Our patron saints made it in the record book. John the Baptist and John the Evangelist both got their names in print. I guess they won.

What did they win?

They are in a book.

Can you show me John the Baptist? Where is he? Can you show me John the Evangelist? Where is he?

Are they walking about the earth with us today?

Yet the living one is here today. And you too can see him.

When my eyes were first opened I realized what it was that made me blind before. The best way to describe it to those who are still blind is to use the analogy of a certain feature of the artist painting of a portrait.

If you go to a museum, and look at any portrait hanging on the wall, a peculiar thing happens as you walk about the room. The eyes seem to be looking at you, regardless of where you stand. It's an eerie feeling. But, it's easily explained in that the surface is "two dimensional" on the painting, and it's entirely an "optical effect", caused by the "projection" of two-dimensional objects into three-dimensional space.

However, in three dimensions, the effect vanishes. If a person is looking directly ahead, and you walk around him, only when you're in front do the eyes appear to look at you. When you stand at different points, you clearly see those eyes looking away, they look consistently towards whatever fixed direction the person is staring at.

Now, imagine if one day you met a person in the three-dimensional space, whose three-dimensional eyes behaved just like the artist's two-dimensional painting ! Wherever you stood, the eyes still direct towards you. And yet, you could see that the eyes aren't really moving. There's no physical motion involved, just like the static painting. Somehow, they look in all directions at the same time.


When you first see what you weren't seeing before, the "ah ha" feeling you get is the same as the surprise a person would experience in finding a three-dimensional "eye" that behaved like a two-dimensional "eye" on a an artist's portrait.

Suddenly, you're standing in the world, and the same scenery you saw every day of your life changes. A dead image "comes to life" as it were, and you see an "eye" following your every move. When you find that "eye", you'll know about the Illuminati, and understand why the name "Illuminati" was chosen for the team.

That's the best way I can think of to explain how and where to start looking for "evidence" by yourself.

reply to post by relocator

Freemasonry does not concern itself with infiltrating anything. A fanatic absurdity.

Wow, Catholic fundamentalists are scared of historical groups? Of ghosts? I guess when you need to you always need a scapegoat, an enemy to fight. Hell other than this site saying it, what proof exists that the Carboneri actually wrote this?

I did laugh at the letter from the Bishop calling us depraved, perverted, and "afraid of the light".

The countries in history that have banned Freemasonry were plagued by tyrannical rulers/governments.

The letter made empty accusations and really just realize on the fears of eternal damnation.

Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy.

Ah the inquisitors and their history.

Now onto the comparisons of the rites. First off, the OES is not the same as witchcraft. The OES is actually about Biblical heroines and is fairly Christian in nature. Nothing is correct about the OES piece. Second, I am going to comment only on the obviously absurd as there is much to write and I only have so much free time.

About the Blue Lodge:

You have to be recommended by another Mason.

Not true. One must join on their own free will and accord.

You take a blood oath not to reveal any of the secrets of the Lodge.

No we don't as a true blood oath requires the spilling of blood at the taking of the oath.

The blindfold is taken off the candidate and they tell you that you were in darkness and you are coming into light.

A half truth as one is in darkness...in regards to Freemasonry.

The Masons end their prayers with "So mote it be."

So? Nothing is wrong with that. Mote = may, might. It's a sign of agreement.

As we continue to read, just because some Pope made accusations and condemnation doesn't mean any of it is or was true.

It’s a well known fact that Communists and Freemasons made organized efforts to infiltrate the Catholic Church.

Sure it is. [/sarc] Communists are no more fans of Freemasons than the Roman Catholic Church is.

to label the ‘Church of the past' as being oppressive, authoritarian, full of predjudices, arrogant in claiming to be the sole possessor of truth, and responsible for the divisions of religious bodies throughout the centuries.

This wouldn't be entirely inaccurate. It's not like the Church's history is exactly pure. They've made mistakes.

Freemasons made similar attempts to infiltrate the Catholic Church and elevate their own to the highest levels.

A baseless and hollow accusation without proof.

In a hundred years time… bishops and priests will think they are marching behind the banner of the keys of Peter, when in fact they will be following our flag… The reforms will have to be brought about in the name of obedience.

Who in Freemasonry wrote this? What Grand Lodge sanctioned or approved this document?

On April 3, 1844, a leader of the AltaVendita named Nubius wrote a letter to another highly-placed mason.

Who?

The letter spoke again about the plan to infiltrate the Catholic Church, and the attempt to insert a masonic “pope,” who would promote the religion of Freemasonry.

There is no "religion of Freemasonry".

Eliphas Levi (not Eliph) was only a Mason for 5-months before he dropped from the rolls.

High above the ceremony waved the red banner, the Masonic ensign, and which for all the continent of Europe is the signal of revolution and of war against Christianity.

A red banner? If it was Freemasonry why wouldn't it be blue? The color of the Craft degrees aka the Blue Lodge? Does this site provide any pictures? How is the "Masonic ensign" a symbol of revolution or war?

reply to post by relocator

As your first cite charges American Masonry differs from British and European Masonry but not because of Protestantism. There are many more factors than that in the evolution of American Masonry.

And this ought at once to warn American Catholics that the anti-Masonic literature of Europe can be applicable here only with considerable modifications.

Yes because blind hatred can be applied to anything if you really want it to.

The Hebrews are very numerous in the American lodges.

Wait? Earlier they said Episcopalians and Methodists were numerous in our Lodges? Where is the statistical proof of any of this? I know my Grand Lodge doesn't take down anyone's particular faith and put it into a database. If other jurisdictions don't store this information like Idaho then how does this author make such a statement?

It is the common belief that a Freemason is no sooner nominated to an office that his connection with the order is made known to the brethren for their guidance in voting, not officially, perhaps, but yet by means that are just as effectual.

It may be common among anti-Masons, but its not true. Politics like religion are not discussed in Freemasonry. I know many Masons who voted against the current Governor of Idaho, who is a Mason.

His method of establishing this consists in an attempt to trace the French Revolution to Freemasonry, and then from the Revolution deducing nearly all the political, social, and moral ills of the day.

This is ludicrous. There was no concerted Masonic effort to spread revolution. There were revolutionaries who were Masons, but its likely and logical to know that they were unaware of fellow Masonic affiliations. It should be noted while there were many aristocrats that were Freemasons.

So far much of this Father Deschamps writing sounds like the writings of a bitter tyrant after he had been ousted trying to paint himself the victim.

He sees Freemasonry in everything that is anti-Catholic.

He wants to see it that way and therefore will find the least circumstantial evidence and consider it proof, whether it is or not. That's called blind hatred from which the only that cones is irrational.

Freemasonry, then, in the politico-atheistical form which it has taken on the continent of Europe

No institution that allows atheists into is not recognized by through majority of actual Masonic Grand Lodges.

Father Deschamps thinks the knights guilty of the crimes and irregularities charged to them, and he traces, with a few breaks, however, in the evidence, a connection between the suppressed order of the Temple and modern Freemasonry.

Well first, the good father must not have got the memo about how his own beloved Church had not found the Templars guilty of the crimes held against by the French king. Second, no historian can show a connection between the Masons and the Templars. It's a romanticized idea, often perpetrated by Masons themselves to boost membership by claiming some ancient lineage which was often fabricated. In fact there is evidence that the Masons preceded the Templars by over a century (almost 2).

(Albigenises heresy)

Don't they mean massacre?

To say his book is a great piece is disgrace to literature throughout history. Many religious fundamentalists are just the same ad those who Jesus preached against and had him crucified.

Freemasonry, as a secret society, is dangerous to our free institutions ; as a craft it is obnoxious to the true spirit of humanity.

Yes, charity is just so wrong.

It is degrading to a man’s dignity to submit himself to a secret, irresponsible, human authority.

I don't know, the Catholic Church has been doing it for over a millennia.

reply to post by relocator

Well first off, nice search into my username. I could care less.

Second, Yahoo Answers isn't exactly a site of worth as any Joe Blow can post anything on it.

Third, I've been researching Freemasonry a lot longer than I've been in. Plus, my five years of first hand experience supports my research and contradicts every bit of the slander you've posted. You really haven't noteworthy research but rather just recycled what others have penned.

reply to post by relocator

Well in your link of good deeds, here is one:

www.google.com...=freemason+charity+work

And here is that search in just the Google News function:

www.google.com...:1&hl=en&source=mog&gl=us&q=freemasonry%20charity&sa=N

What the hell are we doing wrong?

Letting the world fall apart? Letting the bad guys win? There can be hundreds of reasons.

In what ritual when is a pyramid to be found? And what is its purpose or meaning? Please realize that there is a difference between a pyramid and a triangle.

reply to post by DRAZIW

Wow what a bunch of incoherent ranting really about nothing.

You really think that goats are predators?! Wow, you know nothing of animals.

Nor forogot Freemasons "worship" nor do we meet below ground or in darkness.

Of course, some will say "G" stands for God. Yeah, right !

And who are to say otherwise?

reply to post by DRAZIW

You really do think highly of yourself. Its quite disgusting, your arrogance.

You know nothing of our secrets.

The masons are not the only ones who walk this earth knowing things.

We never said we did. So far you're the only one with an ego trip.

The Freemasons are a "Brotherhood", the Illuminati are a "Fatherhood". Who do you think knows more?

This according to what? Plus the only fatherhood we recognize is the fatherhood of God.

See? Freemasons know nothing.

Your logic is flawed and for the most part...lacking.

Albert Pike, the highest 33rd degree mason admitted as much, he went around telling everyone "I know nothing".

He is not the highest of the high ranked Masons ever. Many Brothers have held the rank he had. Nor is he the only Mason of note or Masonic author of worth. Please cite where he said this and when.

reply to post by relocator

Say it ain't so!!!! A YouTube video!!! It's not like any moron with a computer, a video editing program, and Internet access can post one these videos on there or anything.

I'm nor going to waste my time with it as its probably just the same old crap, just recycled.

reply to post by DRAZIW

You "know 'ALL' there is to know in this world"? You wouldn't happen to be a teenager would you? Because you sound like one.

reply to post by DRAZIW

You've met "the Illuminati initiator"? Sure you have...

reply to post by DRAZIW

You realize the Illuminati went by another name when it was founded by Weishaupt right?

You really need back in your meds.

reply to post by KSigMason


This guys a bit of a lunatic, isnt he??

And his arrogance comes off a bit narcissistic.

Freemasonry, as a place where good men can come together and discuss the esoteric, is a great and beautiful thing. I cant wait for the day when these secret institutions wont be necessary, but, as for today, theres a certain 'leave it to God' attitude which leaves those who are called to the 'inner wisdom' to come. The rest - the 'psychics' are only concerned with outer appearances. So this framework seems to be inherent to this world we live in.

Anyways. I dont think debating with him is gonna do anything. People like this need to be ignored.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

You really think that goats are predators?! Wow, you know nothing of animals.

They are not sheep !

Nor forogot Freemasons "worship" nor do we meet below ground or in darkness.

I can walk into any Church while it's activities are in session. May I walk into a Masonic Lodge while you are in session too? Why do you guard your doors?

The church is in the light and above the ground, because it lets the public see its activities. The lodge is in darkness and below the ground, because it hides from the public what it really does in its activities.

Apart from that, Freemasonry inherited its ways from the old orders that did once meet physically below the ground, like the Cult of Mithras---look it up for yourself.

Of course, some will say "G" stands for God. Yeah, right !

And who are to say otherwise?

Some masons say G is for 7, or G is for Geometry, there are even those who claim G is for "George", given George Washington was a Freemason and first President, yet others say G is for King "G"eorge, who "allowed" the masons to establish America, which is encoded in "ANNUIT COEPTIS" == "He hath favored our undertaking" meaning King George secretly approved the United States Independence, even though seeming to oppose it openly..etc..and that's why America was able to detach itself from Great Britain, and also why only Americans use the "G" symbol on their compass and squares sign, while other countries don't etc..

After all, Freemason Institutions around the world mostly believe in G-od, so why only America has "G" ? It's clear that G is not for God, but for something else entirely. Of the many alternatives proposed, take your pick.

You really do think highly of yourself. Its quite disgusting, your arrogance.

The difference is "I know who I am".

The only reason you'd find such a statement disgusting, is if you don't know who you are. And therefore believe, that nobody can know, because you can't see how it is possible to know a thing.

You know nothing of our secrets.

And you know this, how?

The masons are not the only ones who walk this earth knowing things.

We never said we did. So far you're the only one with an ego trip.

Everyone has some ego. How did you get rid of yours? Are you a buddhist?

The Freemasons are a "Brotherhood", the Illuminati are a "Fatherhood". Who do you think knows more?

This according to what? Plus the only fatherhood we recognize is the fatherhood of God.

And that's the real problem between the Catholic Church and freemasonry, isn't it? For the Church has Fathers also, that's why the Catholic Church bans Freemasonry for it's members, they refuse to acknowledge the authority of the Church Fathers. Therefore one cannot be a Catholic and a Freemason at the same time, it would be a contradiction.

Albert Pike, the highest 33rd degree mason admitted as much, he went around telling everyone "I know nothing".

He is not the highest of the high ranked Masons ever. Many Brothers have held the rank he had. Nor is he the only Mason of note or Masonic author of worth. Please cite where he said this and when.

Start here:

Military career

After the war, Pike returned to the practice of law, moving to New Orleans for a time beginning in 1853....He returned to Arkansas in 1857, gaining some amount of prominence in the legal field and becoming an advocate of slavery, although retaining his affiliation with the Whig party. When that party dissolved, he became a member of the Know-Nothing party....

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon Protestant values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. ...

The origin of the "Know Nothing" term was in the semi-secret organization of the party. When a member was asked about its activities, he was supposed to reply, "I know nothing."

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

etc..etc..

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by KSigMason

 

This guys a bit of a lunatic, isnt he??

I don't think KSigMason is a lunitic. He's just misguided. That's all. Give the guy a break.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
I can walk into any Church while it's activities are in session. May I walk into a Masonic Lodge while you are in session too? Why do you guard your doors?

Irrelevant. What does this have to do with Masonry allegedly being a religion?

Some masons say G is for 7, or G is for Geometry, there are even those who claim G is for "George", given George Washington was a Freemason and first President, yet others say G is for King "G"eorge, who "allowed" the masons to establish America, which is encoded in "ANNUIT COEPTIS" == "He hath favored our undertaking" meaning King George secretly approved the United States Independence, even though seeming to oppose it openly..

Who are these 'some Masons'? Do you have any substantiating material?

and also why only Americans use the "G" symbol on their compass and squares sign, while other countries don't etc..

Because in the English Language God starts with a 'G' and in most other countries it does not.

reply to post by KSigMason


Your response is greatly appreciated. I don't know anything about Masons and no way to verify what's true. Fatima Movement is interesting to me as well as sister Lucia. I looked up your username to see if I could get a grip on where you maybe coming from. If your happy I'm happy for you. Peace

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Irrelevant. What does this have to do with Masonry allegedly being a religion?

Well, there are religions that don't call themselves religion.

How do we know if some doctrine is religion? What makes something a religion?

Everybody has religion. Although, few recognize it.

A religion is simply a set of ideas that one accepts as truth without any kind of proof. You join some club, they give you a bunch of symbols, words, and phrases to memorize, and tell you to accept certain things on "faith", and accept having your mind "prepared" to be suitable to be a member of that club. That's their religion.

A religion is generally "truths" given to you by others who supposedly know more than you about something. So, the first key thing about religion is an acknowledgment by the new entrant that he is ignorant, and lacking knowledge about something, and he must accept that others have the knowledge he lacks, and their advice and guidance can help him "learn" to become wise like them.

"Religion" is the opposite of "Philosophy".

In philosophy, it is accepted that nothing is known, but that we can create our own knowledge, by defining something called "axioms" and creating something called "logic" which has its own "axioms" again, and by a process called "reasoning", using this thing called "logic" from those other "axioms", we arrive at dependent "truths". But, the "truths" of philosophy are of an entirely different character from religious "truths". The "truths" of philosophy are known to be dependent on the system of philosophy which is "erected by man", and are thus entirely "relative truths", there being no absolute truth in philosophy.

When man creates his own truths it is called philosophy, and when truths are revealed to man it is called religion.

Sometimes, people get confused, and create a philosophy which they then want to call religion.

But, as long as it is man-made, it is philosophy.

It might be religion to the ignorant, but to those that know, it is just philosophy.

... is encoded in "ANNUIT COEPTIS" == "He hath favored our undertaking" meaning King George secretly approved the United States Independence, even though seeming to oppose it openly..

Who are these 'some Masons'? Do you have any substantiating material?

Ah...the royal secret...can man change the divine law?....either a King rules by Divine Right..or by permission of his men...

In 1789 the men of the United States "ordained" a new constitution...the laws that they would live by...they would decide themselves...juggling the digits of that year around [ a kabalistic trick], it then was decided in 1897 to introduce a new law into the books...for clarity on this difficult question..."Can men really introduce and pass a law to overturn nature and/or the order ordained by God?"....do men have that power?

The Indiana state legislature bill #246 of 1897 proposed to settle this masonic question definitely, with a new law introduced to "redefine a mathematical truth", and bring it under the subjugation and jurisdiction of men, by declaring what the true value of PI would be thereafter, requiring all to use the new legal value of PI, and seeking to obtain "royalties" to be paid for use of the new value so declared by law.

It was a bold attempt to grapple with a troubling old question, about the freedom of man to do his own will. But, think of the glory. If he succeeded in changing an "absolute truth" by merely enacting a "civil law," he could indeed conquer the universe by his will alone.

Unfortunately, despite the good intentions of all involved, the Indiana Bill #246, while seriously considered, turned into a mockery of the legislative process. Men who knew nothing about mathematics, approved of the bill, and it was only when it got to the senate that the bill was defeated.

That of course, raised another question. If an uneducated was elected to make laws for the state, what kind of laws would that state be governed by?

After all, men can write anything down on paper. All in their imaginations can be recorded in print. But, what is the value of their uttering?

Yet, recognizing that men do get some satisfaction from the "belief" that they are in charge, and it is not the absolute truth that rules, but they by their will, perhaps it is best that they remain uneducated, and have their fun writing and proclaiming to their hearts content.

Thus to the 1776 Declaration of Independence. Either King George wasn't a divine king, or he secretly approved of the formation of that state where men can imagine to govern themselves, and that "G" is the royal secret that he hath favored it, making it possible for men to think of themselves as free!

Originally posted by DRAZIW
What makes something a religion?

When it offers salvation. Masonry does not fit this description.

reply to post by DRAZIW


About your religion and philosophy thing....

Religion actually IS a type of philosophy.

Even one mans metaphysical philosophy is another mans metaphysical spculation.....

Behind the 'metaphysical' is an experience, which is probably what you refer to when you juxtapose religion with philosophy.

Religion is based on an ontological knowledge whereas philosophy is nothing more then speculation.