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Would a moral God step up to his responsibilities?

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posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 

Something behind the eyes leaves this earthly plane the physical manifestation of spirit and moves on.
And you know this . . how?




posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

Something behind the eyes leaves this earthly plane the physical manifestation of spirit and moves on.
And you know this . . how?


The same way you know that there is more than on God.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Greatest I am


Now....tell me DL, what do you know about death?

What is on the other side of this life?


Net's see. What can I say first hand that is even remotely possible and not pure speculation and is half way provable by anyone.
Nothing.

What can you say?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.


Condsider the possibility that the "creator" designed this reality to seperate those that learn and understand from those that are lazy and stuborn...


Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.


You seem to like to mention this...

What makes you think God thought it was a good idea?

Perhaps it was the "only way" to help people understand



Understand what? A piss poor justice system where the innocent die and the guilty walk?

If God did not think it a good idea, then his pocket full of miracles would have found another way.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.


Condsider the possibility that the "creator" designed this reality to seperate those that learn and understand from those that are lazy and stuborn...


Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.


You seem to like to mention this...

What makes you think God thought it was a good idea?

Perhaps it was the "only way" to help people understand



Understand what? A piss poor justice system where the innocent die and the guilty walk?

If God did not think it a good idea, then his pocket full of miracles would have found another way.

Regards
DL


No... that there is life beyond death. And fear of death only promotes ignorance of that fact.

You might have also noticed that God doesn't intervien in human affairs... Theres no need, its already a perfect system.




posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.


Condsider the possibility that the "creator" designed this reality to seperate those that learn and understand from those that are lazy and stuborn...


Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.


You seem to like to mention this...

What makes you think God thought it was a good idea?

Perhaps it was the "only way" to help people understand



Understand what? A piss poor justice system where the innocent die and the guilty walk?

If God did not think it a good idea, then his pocket full of miracles would have found another way.

Regards
DL


No... that there is life beyond death. And fear of death only promotes ignorance of that fact.

You might have also noticed that God doesn't intervien in human affairs... Theres no need, its already a perfect system.



I agree that we live in a perfect system.

Strange that God did not think so at Sodom or in Noah's day when he decided to use genocide against a perfect system.

We both agree that that is an insane act. Right?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


unfortunatly i don't have an answer for S&G...



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

Something behind the eyes leaves this earthly plane the physical manifestation of spirit and moves on.
And you know this . . how?


Jesus tells me so.


1. Physical observation. I see it leave, little by little. A brilliance and reflected light quality that slowly goes out. And I have heard people say "you could tell he was no longer there."

2. Laws of energy and thermodynamics. Energy cannot be destroyed.

The law of conservation of energy is a law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed: it can be transformed from one form to another or transferred from one place to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in an isolated system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy; energy can enter or leave a closed system. en.wikipedia.org...


3. "Why You're Alive and Can Never Die: The Larger Scientific Picture"

If time is an illusion, can consciousness ever truly be extinguished? The fear of death is a universal concern, yet once we abandon the random, physical-centered cosmos and start to see things biocentrically, the verisimilitude of a finite life loosens its grip. The contemplation of time and the discoveries of modern science suggest that the mind is the ultimate reality, paramount and limitless. "The influences of the senses," said Emerson, "has in most men overpowered the mind to the degree that the walls of space and time have come to look solid, real and insurmountable; and to speak with levity of these limits in the world is the sign of insanity."


Physics tells us that energy is never lost, and that our brains -- and hence the feeling of life -- operates by electrical energy, and this energy simply can't vanish. The biocentric view of the timeless, spaceless world allows for no true death in any real sense. Immortality resides outside of time altogether. Eastern religions have argued for millennia that birth and death are equally illusory. Since consciousness transcends the body -− "external" is a distinction of language alone −- we're left with consciousness as the bedrock of existence. Death has always meant only one thing: an end with no reprieve. If we're just our body, then we must die. But if we're our consciousness, the sense of experience, then we can't die for the simple reason that consciousness is expressed in manifold fashion and is ultimately unconfined.www.huffingtonpost.com...



edit on 25-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am



Now....tell me DL, what do you know about death?

What is on the other side of this life?


Net's see. What can I say first hand that is even remotely possible and not pure speculation and is half way provable by anyone.
Nothing.

What can you say?

Regards
DL


I can be honest and say "I don't know. It could be anything."
And I cannot even tell you what it isn't."
Rather leave that to the people who pretend to know....

Seems you think you do...
edit on 25-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 

Jesus tells me so.

1. Physical observation. I see it leave, little by little.
How does Jesus talk to you?
1. How do you know what sort of place the spirit moves on to.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

Jesus tells me so.

1. Physical observation. I see it leave, little by little.
How does Jesus talk to you?
1. How do you know what sort of place the spirit moves on to.



Did I say I knew what kind of place the spirit moves to (and I might guess it depends on the spirit) or did I question someones concept of death? And if you do not know what physical observation is and where it comes from - we shouldn't be talking. Believe what you want just don't try to force feed me your views about something neither of us really know. The only difference between us is I admit it.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 

Did I say I knew what kind of place the spirit moves to (and I might guess it depends on the spirit) or did I question someones concept of death? And if you do not know what physical observation is and where it comes from - we shouldn't be talking. Believe what you want just don't try to force feed me your views about something neither of us really know. The only difference between us is I admit it.
I had to go back a few posts last night to see what the argument was about and it seems to be about the Bible, and if using it as a source was any better of than just guessing. I was answering the question you posed which was, How do we know death is not a good thing? I was saying it is not, and that is from my own observation (I did not state that at that time since I have made statements about my death experiences before, on other threads) and quoted a Bible verse to back that up. You said I was using man-made books instead of some other, hypothetical method, and when asked about that, you quoted Huffington Post. That said the spirit or whatever still exists and just transitions to something else. I don't "admit" to not knowing because I think I do but I like to back it up with the Bible, when applicable, for those who think the Bible is an authority. If you disagree, which you stated you did, with using the Bible as a source of knowledge, then you are free to skip that part and go to the part I was trying to reinforce.
edit on 25-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

Did I say I knew what kind of place the spirit moves to (and I might guess it depends on the spirit) or did I question someones concept of death? And if you do not know what physical observation is and where it comes from - we shouldn't be talking. Believe what you want just don't try to force feed me your views about something neither of us really know. The only difference between us is I admit it.
I had to go back a few posts last night to see what the argument was about and it seems to be about the Bible, and if using it as a source was any better of than just guessing. I was answering the question you posed which was, How do we know death is not a good thing? I was saying it is not, and that is from my own observation (I did not state that at that time since I have made statements about my death experiences before, on other threads) and quoted a Bible verse to back that up. You said I was using man-made books instead of some other, hypothetical method, and when asked about that, you quoted Huffington Post. That said the spirit or whatever still exists and just transitions to something else. I don't "admit" to not knowing because I think I do but I like to back it up with the Bible, when applicable, for those who think the Bible is an authority. If you disagree, which you stated you did, with using the Bible as a source of knowledge, then you are free to skip that part and go to the part I was trying to reinforce.
edit on 25-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


I do disagree and I think the Bible needs to be used to enforce what we have already discovered and proved scientifically. If I am forced to choose between science and the Bible I have to choose the man made book because I think some of the material in it is older than science. (but this is a personal opinion and I cannot advocate it for everyone - to each his own) There are peoples personal opinions in the Bible however and you have to FIRST RECOGNIZE THEM and then consider those opinions carefully before adopting them yourself.

And I did quote Huffington Post. I quoted a scholarly author who's article was published by Huffington Post among other publications - along with 2 other sources. I cited empirical experience and observation and the laws of energy and then I mention CHRIST whose spoken words in red are all I take 100% to heart in the Bible and being that is my last and confirming source for whatever I know I would say it can be discounted but the others cannot. The thermodynamic laws and empirical observation. The author who agrees and points out why energy and souls do not die... is difficult to argue THEORETICALLY but admittedly no proof positive. However when you add it to the laws of thermodynamics it becomes persuasive.

I know you believe (as you are full well entitled) death is "bad" and you can find Bible passages to back it up but I think they are talking about a different kind of death, perhaps a separation from spirit, or death of the soul (not the body) because I know I can find as many passages to describe death as new life and everlasting glory.

edit on 25-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 

. . .I know I can find as many passages to describe death as new life and everlasting glory.
Just as a rebuttal, on my terms, but not something you actually believe in.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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God doesn't have to take responsibility for anything, he told us not to sin, and we did it anyway. He didn't put a gun to our heads and force us to eat of the tree of forbidden knowledge.


No..but he did allow the devil to come and tempt..knowing full well the weakness of his creation..?

If you have created a beautiful playground for your children , for them to enjoy..would you knowingly allow a sinister entity to go in there to cause trouble, and tempt your children?

If you did, would you not be accountable for allowing that to happen when you knew full well of the disastrous effects it would have on the children?

I totally understand where the op is coming from on with this opinion, because I have have harbored some resentment against this miracle working God..myself at times.




And if there is a miracle working God, mankind should give him a thumbs down for his lack of morals.


God tells us we should be willing to lay down our life for our brother... yet he has the capacity..to to turn a man blind for 10 minutes if he wanted to..or even cause him to have seizure..This might greatly help some children , who are being kidnapped for some very seriously disgusting intentions.

God expects us to help the poor, and the poor to help the poor, but ..he allows many to die of starvation... when he undoubtedly has the capability to create food for them...or at least sway conditions int their environment so that they may get food.

If he had the capability of creating the heavens and the earth, and mankind,surely he has the capability of helping people without even bringing to awareness to others that it was him who helped.

Look..This isn't about dumping on God, but I get really tired of people saying as Christians we are expected to be this ,and this, and do that...but God ??.. What has he done to help the starving in africa..to help the women ,so they don't have to commit"sexual sins" just so they can feed their children?

IF there is a GOD , who created everything we see around us, damn straight he has responsibility in how things turn out. I find it ironic that the bible says good parents will raise god fearing children who follow the ways of the Lord..
Yet God is the "ultimate" parent... and he obviously hasn't done such a great job with his children..?

Ok..done for now... but yes..OP ..I for one understand where you are coming from to some degree.

I for one....at times..would LOVE to say to God..why don't you practice what you preach?




edit on 25-9-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

. . .I know I can find as many passages to describe death as new life and everlasting glory.
Just as a rebuttal, on my terms, but not something you actually believe in.


You are kidding now, right?



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant
 

. . .I know I can find as many passages to describe death as new life and everlasting glory.
Just as a rebuttal, on my terms, but not something you actually believe in.


You are kidding now, right?
No, because you are a "red letter" believer.
I doubt the verses you would quote are red letter (direct quotes of Jesus).



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


To anyone interested in Christianity Christ teachings - I recommend starting here first and if you never leave this area of study you will not be harmed.
What Jesus was Recorded as Saying - the New Testament with His Words in Red
Gospels - Matthew - Mark - Luke - John
Acts - Acts of the Apostles
Apocalypse - Book of Revelation

www.ccel.org...


Mark 12:24-27 - Jesus replied, "Does not this show where you go wrong - and how you fail to understand both the scriptures and the power of God? When people rise from the dead they neither marry nor are they given in marriage; they live like the angels in Heaven.


Sounds like a PARTY!

many people will come from east and west and sit at my table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven.
A GOOD party!

In any case I did not come to invite the 'righteous' but the 'sinners'."



Mat 5:2-12 Then he began his teaching by saying to them, "How happy are the humble-minded, for the kingdom of Heaven is theirs! "How happy are those who know what sorrow means for they will be given courage and comfort! "Happy are those who claim nothing, for the whole earth will belong to them! "Happy are those who are hungry and thirsty for goodness, for they will be fully satisfied! "Happy are the merciful, for they will have mercy shown to them! "Happy are the utterly sincere, for they will see God! "Happy are those who make peace, for they will be sons of God! "Happy are those who have suffered persecution for the cause of goodness, for the kingdom of Heaven is theirs! "And what happiness will be yours when people blame you and ill-treat you and say all kinds of slanderous things against you for my sake! Be glad then, yes, be tremendously glad - for your reward in Heaven is magnificent. www.ccel.org...



JOHN 3:5-8 - "I assure you," said Jesus, "that unless a man is born from water and from spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit: you must not be surprised that I told you that all of you must be born again. The wind blows where it likes, you can hear the sound of it but you have no idea where it comes from and where it goes. Nor can you tell how a man is born by the wind of the Spirit."


JOHN 11:23 - "Your brother will rise again," Jesus replied to her. 11:24 - "I know," said Martha, "that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 11:25-26 - "I myself am the resurrection and the life," Jesus told her. "The man who believes in me will live even though he dies, and anyone who is alive and believes in me will never die at all. Can you believe that?"




Off (our) topic but to the OP

"You have heard that it was said to the people in the old days, 'You shall not murder', and anyone who does must stand his trial.

But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother must stand his trial;
anyone who contemptuously calls his brother a fool must face the supreme court;
and anyone who looks on his brother as a lost soul is himself heading straight for the fire of destruction.

"So that if, while you are offering your gift at the altar, you should remember that your brother has something against you, you must leave your gift there before the altar and go away.

Make your peace with your brother first, then come and offer your gift." Mat 5:21-24



Mark 3:35 - "Look!" he said, "my mother and my brothers are here. Anyone who does the will of God is brother and sister and mother to me."



John 9:39 - Then Jesus said, “My coming into this world is itself a judgment - those who cannot see have their eyes opened and those who think they can see become blind."

9:40 - Some of the Pharisees near him overheard this and said, "So we're blind, too, are we?"

9:41 - "If you were blind," returned Jesus, "nobody could blame you,

but, as you insist 'We can see',

your guilt remains."

edit on 25-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Thank you.
Always nice when the gist of an O P is understood.

If God the pot maker makes a pot with a hole in it, then bitches when it leaks, only an ass of a pot maker will blame the pot.
Oops, who is the pot to question the pot maker.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Thank you.
Always nice when the gist of an O P is understood.

If God the pot maker makes a pot with a hole in it, then bitches when it leaks, only an ass of a pot maker will blame the pot.
Oops, who is the pot to question the pot maker.
Regards
DL


But if your entire pretext for argument is misguided human misunderstanding this refutes the analysis.

The pot maker never bitches or blames. The pot maker loves all his pots. The fire doesn't kill them - it makes them stronger. We are only fleshy manifestations of "spirit power" and light or darkness, very similar to electric light bulbs with various degrees of incandescence. Lighten up. Quit trying to find places to put blame. It doesn't even work like that. You are freer than you think.
edit on 25-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



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