Would a moral God step up to his responsibilities?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

A moral God would grant us the freedom to choose, and ask us to step up to OUR responsibilities.

You will note that most Christians will not agree with you.
They prefer to place their responsibilities on Jesus and try to profit from God setting up his murder.
Immoral to the max that.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

I think you misunderstand the nature of Jesus' Magnum Opus or "Great Work", as the taking of a stand in the name of Love (it must somehow be seen from his perspective), without compromise.

Modern American Conservative Chuchianity is probably so far off the mark, that if Jesus himself entered their church and started speaking to them, they're throw him out on his ass, or, if they didn't, refuse to stop crawling around on the ground at his feet when all he wanted to do was enjoy their company!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I think you misunderstand the nature of Jesus' Magnum Opus or "Great Work", as the taking of a stand in the name of Love (it must somehow be seen from his perspective), without compromise.

Modern American Conservative Chuchianity is probably so far off the mark, that if Jesus himself entered their church and started speaking to them, they're throw him out on his ass, or, if they didn't, refuse to stop crawling around on the ground at his feet when all he wanted to do was enjoy their company!

Jesus' rhetoric, as written by man, is quite easy to understand.
If we recognize how useless rhetoric can be.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

The sermon on the mount could be classified as rhetoric. There is nothing without rhetoric, except blindness.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I think it might be wrong to think of God in terms of some ethereal being who is omnipresent and able to see, determine or even care about everything that goes on on the planet when maybe God was a highly evolved guy who visited once and knocked up a few of the local girls and they still tell stories about him. Oh yes...he will be back, he said he was coming back.


I mean I am not saying it happened that way but God might be the distillation of what was a great race of people once here and now either assimilated into the population. The leader El or Yahweh whatever you want to call him might be coming back or might have moved on.

Or most likely never existed in the first place.

Regards
DL

I don't know if that is most likely.
I will not deny it is possible but what is most likely would be what most people are saying.
It is their history after all, they should know. They talk of a God or Gods. Some trickster or God was here and impressed the people mightily. Whether this was genuine, good bad or neutral..all remains to be seen.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Jesus' rhetoric, as written by man, is quite easy to understand. If we recognize how useless rhetoric can be.

Jesus rhetoric was not useless and is the only one that will work on this planet. The rest even "live and let live" have shortcomings where they become useless and unworkable due to the natures of man. Other than Buddha (a similar Christ consciousness) you will not find mortals saying "love your enemies" and "turn the other cheek." You will not find a doctrine so heavy on forgiveness, selfless and gains nothing (tithing is made up by man to support the Church) If Christ consciousness were prevalent there would be no war, no killing and none of the hatred, not even yours, everyone WOULD treat other people as they would like to be treated. Perfection would reign. One day it will. People will understand and adjust.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Jesus' rhetoric, as written by man, is quite easy to understand. If we recognize how useless rhetoric can be.

Jesus rhetoric was not useless and is the only one that will work on this planet. The rest even "live and let live" have shortcomings where they become useless and unworkable due to the natures of man. Other than Buddha (a similar Christ consciousness) you will not find mortals saying "love your enemies" and "turn the other cheek." You will not find a doctrine so heavy on forgiveness, selfless and gains nothing (tithing is made up by man to support the Church) If Christ consciousness were prevalent there would be no war, no killing and none of the hatred, not even yours, everyone WOULD treat other people as they would like to be treated. Perfection would reign. One day it will. People will understand and adjust.

edit on 14-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the rhetoric.
You already know what I think of rhetoric.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


Uh actually...no I don't. I don't study you. I am happy you learned a new word though. Maybe try another.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Uh actually...no I don't. I don't study you. I am happy you learned a new word though. Maybe try another.

Not a new word but one you obviously do not understand.
Or perhaps you do and that is why you did not bother trying to refute.

Regards
DL

rhetoric
That is like a web site that asks for subscriptions from readers in order to keep the "site going", which means that the person has time to keep updating his site, since he now does not need to have a day job to keep up on his personal living expenses.

ETA: I should clarify what I mean a bit, the rhetoric is what is being sold, not the asking of the money so much, but one is dependent on the other.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Jesus' rhetoric, as written by man, is quite easy to understand. If we recognize how useless rhetoric can be.

Jesus rhetoric was not useless and is the only one that will work on this planet. The rest even "live and let live" have shortcomings where they become useless and unworkable due to the natures of man. Other than Buddha (a similar Christ consciousness) you will not find mortals saying "love your enemies" and "turn the other cheek." You will not find a doctrine so heavy on forgiveness, selfless and gains nothing (tithing is made up by man to support the Church) If Christ consciousness were prevalent there would be no war, no killing and none of the hatred, not even yours, everyone WOULD treat other people as they would like to be treated. Perfection would reign. One day it will. People will understand and adjust.

edit on 14-9-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the rhetoric.
You already know what I think of rhetoric.

Regards
DL

You confuse good ideas and lifesaving prescriptions for humanity and life on the planet, with rhetoric.

Solutions and commands (from your maker) no matter how unreasonable and impossible they may seem initially, should be tried, and they never have. We have tried however....Hatred, mistrust, confusion, misinformation, deliberate deception and strife and all manner of division and disagreement between us - religions and genders, politics, families, neighbors, states, nations... because we do not feel empathy, understand history and aggravating circumstances producing new and resultant facts and because we do not believe our maker. Not surprising the message has been muddled, twisted and hijacked so most people avoid it completely. A shame.

And yet there is something intelligent above all LIFE, orchestrating it all, like a fantastic artist or brilliant concert director, above and beyond mans interference, larger than we... a super-consciousness that shares a link with us. We know the song, recognize the painting & somehow understand "where He was going with this."

"It" is an essence which I think belongs to the CREATOR/FATHER of those small g "gods" that came here and fused two links of human DNA together to create us. It is a fatherly-like intelligence which is not meant to be sexist but to include both feminine and masculine traits. I am not saying it is present or active in everyone so I cannot refute you are not in possession of such a link or connection. Maybe it is dormant in your gene sequence? I know some people feel it and others do not have that particular self awareness.

Long and the short of it, this small still voice says something revolutionary and new...Try peace.
Give peace a chance. To do that you have to put your judgmental nature and aggressive tendencies in the back seat. People like to carry those two up front. It is our problem, and I am not the first one to tell you it is the ONLY prescription for everlasting peace - Christ did and every Christ consciousness says the same like a pleasant record playing in the back ground....a spiritual HOW TO.
Give peace and forgiveness a chance to work out for you.
Have the patience to wait for and reap rewards that are not immediate. Trust takes time. Forgiveness takes a decision to over ride hate though it may be your first instinct.

Love your enemies as if they had a reason to hate you. Turn the other cheek as if it did not just hurt like hell. (THINK 9/11 - How did not turning a cheek and instead enacting revenge work for the USA and the world? Do you see the young men without limbs? And they are the lucky ones) It was a bad choice, the wrong choice, to show military strength and aggression (although I was all for it at the time) rather than let the revenge cool and show the difficult wisdom and courage of being a broker for tolerance and peace. I was all for peace too however and saw an opportunity to correct our tarnished image on the world stage. Wrote and sent many letters to that effect to ALL the principals at the White House. They chose the revenge route which though not my favorite was some small and immediate satisfaction. Suffering the buyers remorse now though.

There was a different and much stronger path we might have taken.
Forgiveness and perhaps trying to understand & settle our differences in the region once and for all.

If we had gone that route we might see peace in the Mideast now. We might travel on planes unmolested, get through airports in half the time and enjoy a period of great abundance, peace and prosperity in this Nation.
But what have we got? We have exactly the opposite of any of that...and $4 gas.
Almost as if someone or something is working against us...?

AND DELIVER US FROM EVIL....

This is why I believe the God of Jesus Christ.
THERE IS NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE TO THESE TEACHINGS.
THEY DO NOT ASK YOU TO BOW DOWN TO ANY MAN - YET RESPECTS EVERY PERSONS INHERENT SELF WORTH.

Jesus came with a tough unpopular message with nothing in it for himself, nothing he could possibly have gained, wasn't collecting money, wasn't making anyone rich, in fact just the opposite.

Not money riches or financial gain or even fame and popularity...

All Jesus Christs methods and motivations ever sought to gain for anyone (past present or future) was peace on earth and good will to men, for whatever that's worth.

The speaking of truth, is rhetoric. It's dialectic, OVER rhetoric, which would reduce rhetoric to meaninglessness, which is evil.

"Therefore say yes, when you mean yes, and no when you mean no. Anything else is from the evil one."

reply to post by Greatest I am




The question should be:

Will immoral men and women step up and accept God into their hearts and change?


God has done his part:

JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Originally posted by newcovenant
[

You confuse good ideas and lifesaving prescriptions for humanity and life on the planet, with rhetoric.

Solutions and commands (from your maker) no matter how unreasonable and impossible they may seem initially, should be tried, and they never have. ]

Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.

Unless of course you think a book that begins with 2 creation stories, has a talking snake at the beginning and a seven headed monster at the end, is not a book of fantasy, miracles and magic.

Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by XplanetX
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

The question should be:

Will immoral men and women step up and accept God into their hearts and change?


God has done his part:

JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

God's part all right. Give a lesson in how to murder your own son and call it justice.
Are you some kind of fool or what?

If not, show me that you can learn and think.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Have you learned to think yet?
Have you recognized that it is immoral to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by newcovenant
[

You confuse good ideas and lifesaving prescriptions for humanity and life on the planet, with rhetoric.

Solutions and commands (from your maker) no matter how unreasonable and impossible they may seem initially, should be tried, and they never have. ]

Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.

Unless of course you think a book that begins with 2 creation stories, has a talking snake at the beginning and a seven headed monster at the end, is not a book of fantasy, miracles and magic.

Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.

Regards
DL

DL, What if this is as bad as it gets?

What if death is freaking awesome?

What if death is so awesome if we knew, we'd be killing ourselves?

Slipping "surly bonds" left and right, fighting to quit a laborious and torturous earthly realm, having pity on those poor souls who remain either by choice or by selection?

What if the state of death is a complete and total joy undreamt of by man?

Wouldn't your argument become a little flawed?

Now....tell me DL, what do you know about death?

What is on the other side of this life?

reply to post by Greatest I am

Well, if the maker cared at all about us, he would be here to give clear commands and suggestions and not rely an a book of myths.

Condsider the possibility that the "creator" designed this reality to seperate those that learn and understand from those that are lazy and stuborn...

Did I mention that it also has a God who seems to think it a good idea to have his son murdered when he had no need to.

You seem to like to mention this...

What makes you think God thought it was a good idea?

Perhaps it was the "only way" to help people understand

reply to post by Greatest I am

You already know what I think of rhetoric.

Perhaps you might look up the definition of rhetoric?

The basic idea is to speak persuasively/effectively

Something it seems, you've yet to demonstrate on these forums...

Heres a great tip though... YouTube isn't the ultimate source of learning.

reply to post by newcovenant

What if death is freaking awesome?

It's not.
Acts 2:24
But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power.
edit to add: speaking of Jesus' blood (Hebrews 9:14), it says it will cleanse the conscience of our company of dead works to serve God living. That is the literal translation. Does the writer mean, living God? There would probably be a, the, in front of God, if that was the intended meaning. The order and case of the word, living, indicates it is being used to describe how something is done, so you should most likely (and it makes a good comparison to the earlier part that says something about a freedom from dead works) read it to mean, to serve God in a living way.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by newcovenant

 

What if death is freaking awesome?

It's not.
Acts 2:24
But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power.
edit to add: speaking of Jesus' blood (Hebrews 9:14), it says it will cleanse the conscience of our company of dead works to serve God living. That is the literal translation. Does the writer mean, living God? There would probably be a, the, in front of God, if that was the intended meaning. The order and case of the word, living, indicates it is being used to describe how something is done, so you should most likely (and it makes a good comparison to the earlier part that says something about a freedom from dead works) read it to mean, to serve God in a living way.

edit on 24-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

It's not...and then you offer as proof, a passage from a Book corrupted many times over?

Sorry...there is a difference between physical and spiritual death. Something behind the eyes leaves this earthly plane the physical manifestation of spirit and moves on. I just heard a soldier say he saw behind his eyes his friend was no longer there. You may honor man made books and I honor God made life. I do not suggest you read more, I suggest you hope more and trust God more.