The founding fathers fraud the biggest scam since religion, page 14

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

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Yes there were some very Christian founding fathers such as John Adams. However, if you really look at their beliefs you will notice that very few were really Christian. Those who weren't obvious Deists and Freemasons, had a nominal philosophical faith which was so liberal you can't classify it as Deist or Christian. Washington was a Freemason, but at least he wasn't a Jacobin, and was a Freemason before the infiltration. Others like Paine and Jefferson helped establish Jacobinism and thus the NWO in the U.S. and sowed the seeds of destruction within our country.

The CATHOLIC Church has always stood against esoteric gnosticism adulterating the purity of Orthodox Christian doctrine. This is one of the last good things that Rome holds to, and this sentiment is dying fast. Freemasonry, especially Jacobin Freemasonry (which is pretty much every lodge since the late 1700) is very vague about who the Great Architect is. The Luciferians do not represent all Freemasonry, but are perfectly acceptable in Freemasonry, because one can project whatever character they want onto that capital G, and a Prometheus type figure fills that space perfectly in Freemason ideology. Even without the Luciferian faction, such pluralism is contrary to Christianity, "you cannot serve God and mammon", but with such an influential faction among their ranks it's better not to have any fellowship with them at all. Christians are not allowed to swear oaths, fellowship with blasphemers, and participate in rites that are soaked in paganism, neo-gnosticism, and theosophy. The Orthodox Catholic Church stands against Freemasonry, because you can't reconcile Orthodox Christianity and Freemasonry, it has nothing to do with the status quo.

I appreciate the OP's idea that the founding of the Unites States might not have been much like what we are being taught in the schools in America but I have to state that if it was an outright scam then a lot of my family gave their lives to it for the wrong reasons.

I also will point out my understanding of history is not based on dumbed down information from text books. It was also formed by the classics of literature and one prominent thinker of that time, a man called John Adams. His philosophy and world view were taught to me by my father who believed very much in those ideas as disclosed on these pages

oll.libertyfund.org...

My family fought on both sides of every conflict between American and British forces. Our family kept good records and passed on favorite books and works of art. The history of that time was written by the great thinkers of that era. Their writings are available for free online so you can educate yourself at the Library of Liberty. To pull off such an elaborate hoax as you suggest OP would by unlikely in that time period. People were far better educated believe it or not. They were not instantly informed like we are today. They were also not easily deceived by a mass of contrived information as we are assailed with today.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
I appreciate the OP's idea that the founding of the Unites States might not have been much like what we are being taught in the schools in America but I have to state that if it was an outright scam then a lot of my family gave their lives to it for the wrong reasons.

I also will point out my understanding of history is not based on dumbed down information from text books. It was also formed by the classics of literature and one prominent thinker of that time, a man called John Adams. His philosophy and world view were taught to me by my father who believed very much in those ideas as disclosed on these pages

oll.libertyfund.org...

My family fought on both sides of every conflict between American and British forces. Our family kept good records and passed on favorite books and works of art. The history of that time was written by the great thinkers of that era. Their writings are available for free online so you can educate yourself at the Library of Liberty. To pull off such an elaborate hoax as you suggest OP would by unlikely in that time period. People were far better educated believe it or not. They were not instantly informed like we are today. They were also not easily deceived by a mass of contrived information as we are assailed with today.

The biggest conspiracy theorist out there, Alex Jones, said that George Washington did not even exist. Amazing what some people come up with.

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Observor
But my point was about their "hating" God. They don't hate God, they just love a different one. It is not as if they accept everything Christians believe as being true and still choose to worship Satan. They believe parts of the Christian doctrine to be false.

So they believe certain ones to be true? Well you just described the entire world.

I guess the difference is in what parts they believe to be true. Satanists believe the God of Abraham to exist, afterlife to be real and the interventions of God of Abraham in the lives of Israelites happened as the bible states them. Can't say the whole world believes that. Can we?

I think you said before that you spoke to someone who was a Satanist and this person obviously convinced you of some redeeming philosophy. But have you ever really checked into it?

They believe that man is mere animal with the right to destroy those they feel are weaker or undeserving. They believe that all they do is for their own immediate self-gratification. So I guess it might sound attractive to people who feel like they would like to live their lives according to this philosophy. But I ask you, would you feel comfortable having someone in charge of you who believes your life is meaningless if it means they can do whatever they want to advance their own pleasure? Just asking.

www.churchofsatan.com...

It's all about self for them, Christianity is not about self, but helping and loving those around you. When people begin to think Christianity is not that, those people purporting to be Christians are not really what they say they are. Satanism is nothing more than hedonism with a name attached. They don't worship a god, they worship an idea the have personified.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

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I have not read the article yet but from my view point it makes perfect sense. Make us believe that our forefathers were the perfect framework of democracy and there is no better system to take it's place! all people know that anytime we allow someone to make decisions for us we are giving them power over us and even in an age where information travels at the speed of thought we still use this ancient system of citizen reprensentation as if after over 200 years we have forgotten how to think for ourselves. We can easily choose for ourselves what kind of laws, military, empire, schools, jobs, luxuries, wars, peace, healthcare, monetary system, ETC. We all know this but we still have two out of every three people at voting age choosing someone else to represent them and until people decide to choose who we are by choosing not to vote then we will always be victims of misrepresentation!

Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think you said before that you spoke to someone who was a Satanist and this person obviously convinced you of some redeeming philosophy.

You are correct, I did. The redeeming part was logical consistency and honesty.

But have you ever really checked into it?

Partly, yes. I was not too curious since there weren't many describing themselves to be so, there weren't any official texts of Satanism and one person cannot be reliable source for all of what it means.

They believe that man is mere animal with the right to destroy those they feel are weaker or undeserving. They believe that all they do is for their own immediate self-gratification.

You are right about that part. They believe all human actions are motivated by self-interest and for most that means biological urges.

So I guess it might sound attractive to people who feel like they would like to live their lives according to this philosophy. But I ask you, would you feel comfortable having someone in charge of you who believes your life is meaningless if it means they can do whatever they want to advance their own pleasure? Just asking.

I wouldn't. But I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone in charge of me who claims to believe my life is meaningful and acts exactly as if it had no meaning. If a Satanist gains power over me, I know exactly what I can expect, nothing good for me unless my interests coincide with that of the Satanist. If a Christian gains power over me, I have absolutely no clue what to expect.

www.churchofsatan.com...

They are atheists using "Satanism" probably for its shock value. They don't believe God or Satan exist. Satan is their symbol.

The one I talked to believed in the existence of God, Satan and afterlife. Thes guys you quoted don't.

It's all about self for them, Christianity is not about self, but helping and loving those around you. When people begin to think Christianity is not that, those people purporting to be Christians are not really what they say they are. Satanism is nothing more than hedonism with a name attached. They don't worship a god, they worship an idea the have personified.

Your claims about what Christianity is are not new to me. But I find them hard to reconcile with some passages in the bible, where God orders Israelites to massacre every man, woman, child and even goats in the lands he "gifts" Israelites.

I have really no clue when Christians decide to use what commands of God. With such wonderfully inconsistent set of commands, I doubt there is anything they may be expected to refrain from except probably blasphemy.

So, no, I am not impressed with the God of Abraham or those who claim to believe in Him. But that doesn't mean I somehow am impressed with Satanists. Just that I find them more honest and having an internally consistent approach even though it is no less scarier than a Christian's.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

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somehow you seem to be for more govt not less.

Sorry it took so long, but I wanted to get back to this thread.

Do you really think this less government claim has any validity at all?

"I am for smaller government" is the forth biggest lie of all, whispered into the ears of wided eyed interns across the nation on a daily basis.

You then go on about some obscure philosopher who liberals are supposed to follow. Is this some recent claim by some right wing think tank? This whole thread is just another attack on liberty, and the U.S. way of life.

I believe the U.S. government should do what the U.S. constitution says it should do. The lists of duties is quite short, as put forth by our very wise and honorable founding fathers, found at the very beginning of the U.S. constitution in the preamble.

www.usconstitution.net...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The purpose of government as put forth by the founding fathers of the U.S. was quite clear.

www.earlyamerica.com...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Notice there is not one thing in here about using government to support and expand the global corporate empire, which is exactly what those people who tell the smaller government lie want the U.S. government to do.

The philosophy by which the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution of the United States was written upon, was developed by Jonathan Locke, and remains the primary philosophy that all true liberals embrace.

Those who feed you the nonsense you post, are in opposition to the brilliant philosophy that the U.S. was founded upon. They want our country controlled by economics, and that is communism, and every time you post in favor of the liars preaching the con of the free market, you are undermining everything that is great about the U.S..

reply to post by Masterjaden

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Our striving for fairness to all regardless of knowledge or ability is ridiculous, give equal opportunity and equal requirements for all and it won't matter.

IMO, the people who claim to be for equal opportunity for all these days, are in fact for giving advantages to special groups, primarily against one particular group.cre It is discrimination and bigotry in a well developed and refined process.

The way to create opportunity for all is by developing a system that is fair for all. These means allowing some to succeed more than others. This also means putting checks and balances in to keep some from taking advantage of and abusing others.

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