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Originally posted by MrWendal
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Because anything that you don't agree with is me trolling?

Wouldn't that technically make the founding fathers "trolls" if they were legit then?
Just read the link if you can, i knew the american education system was trash....but not this bad.

Originally posted by MrWendal
post removed by staff

Where is the troll?

It is just us here.

Do you work for the Queen?

I've never looked into the Founding Fathers but I know Abe Lincoln being called "Honest Abe" was similar to a fat person with the nickname "Tiny".

A lot of your posts seem to be intentionally questioning the status quo here on ATS. Nothing wrong with that, but some people might consider that "trolling".

As far as the Founding Fathers are concerned, I don't need to read anything because frankly I have done it all, much as I have done with religion as well.

These guys weren't the epitome of the "perfect man" or the best examples of their own plan by any stretch of the matter. They were flawed, normal people, and THAT is why so many people can appreciate what they did. Most of them were war veterans themselves, fighting on the front lines in numerous occasions, and they fought for a war that actually mattered. As grand as WW2 was in securing peace in the world, if wasn't much different than the wars of today in terms of involvement and purpose.

Now, these men drafted their ideas of freedom and implemented them in the country. I'm sure a couple of them might have been compromised by the crown in the time, but I am also sure that many of them saw through such things and they also saw the problems that were arising. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams - all have quotes associated with them in which they recognize the vision they had was dwindling even in its early stages, and they even foretold the final nails in the coffin to the union.

These men were not perfect and neither was their idea, but it is the best there was and is the best there is still today. American is no longer a "free" country that they originally planned it to be. The silent acceptance of what your fellow man does with his own time and energy has dissolved by TPTB making us act like we have to care and control what others do if it is outside the norm. They have made us believe that we should be involved in the affairs of other countries and the people within as well. These guys saw this stuff coming, they made laws to prevent it and they were ignored anyway.

So if you are serious, perhaps you can do a little more research yourself on the issue, but if you are indeed a troll, by all means have fun with that.

I mean seemed like a lot of double standards behind it. "All men are born equal" - thomas jefferson....slave owner, (does anyone else see anything wrong with that? or am i the only one?)

did ya ever stop to consider that maybe some of them wanted to be slaves?

some would rather live the high life as a slave to a rich family that treats them like one of their own,

as opposed to living life as a free vagabond that has nothing, cant find a job, and dies at an early age.

the personal lives and political lives of the FF had many contradictions. the early days of the colonies it was only a good place for a white male land owner. however, they were brave enough to cut themsleves off from their own father, with hostile natives surrounding them, and make a bold attempt to create a better world for themselves.

oh, and alex jones is the rush lumbaugh of the conspiracy world. he makes money off of outrage and passions. keep that in mind

In the fall of 2008 I killed time with a comrade and visited a large museum in Lexington, Massachusetts.

The Scottish Rite something or other lodge/museum.

Inside is a massive collection of presidential freemasonry memorialbilia. The giant painting of GW (washington) wearing a purple loin cloth with an "all" seeing eye over his junk has forever been lodged in the "wtf" corner of my mind.

I can tell you this. I do not believe the OS of 1776.

s&f

Interesting thread. Protoplasmic Traveller, before the ban hammer caught him, mentioned many times how he felt the founding fathers sold us out. How, during the treaty negotiations, they cratered and gave in to us having to pay restitution for the property lost by The Crown when losing the US. Basically, we had to pay royalties.

The debt was almost relieved a couple of times. But each time we got closer to clearing the debt, we somehow were led into deepening the debt. Look at us now, just 15 years after Clinton started to at least stop spending money we didn't have. Just look at the US now.

Great thread. Thanks for sharing. And thanks to the other contributors for their two cents.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker

I mean seemed like a lot of double standards behind it. "All men are born equal" - thomas jefferson....slave owner, (does anyone else see anything wrong with that? or am i the only one?)

did ya ever stop to consider that maybe some of them wanted to be slaves?

some would rather live the high life as a slave to a rich family that treats them like one of their own,

as opposed to living life as a free vagabond that has nothing, cant find a job, and dies at an early age.

.............bad taste man.