What Does Abortion Have To Do With Pro-Choice?

reply to post by Kitilani


Yes actually. It states all humans are born into the same potential abilities. Yes, even the mentally retarded. Because they often have higher abilities elsewhere where they lack in others.

Unwanted is an invented term. So is unsustainable, as well as pretty much everything you said. Objectively they are nothing more than natural selection.

Hence the glory of science. All your moral crap gets thrown out the window, because it's not a constant, not a definable term, and more or less usually the product of desperate minds in need to invent something to defend it. This is not meant to insult you, this is simple fact. Society invented the term morality. Science has none.

There are always ways to address population in a scientific method. Weather it be the extremes of simply building vertical farms, or the simple of sex education. If there is a pattern that can show a solution, it is a solution. Simple as that.


So please. Leave your morality at the door. It's unwelcome in the world of science.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

You control what happens to your body when you have sex.

...obviously you havent had REAL sex...

Originally posted by Gorman91
If you choose to have sex and you end up getting pregnant, that's your responsibility.

...correct, its my body and my responsibility to CHOOSE how i handle an unwanted pregnancy... whatever choice i make is no one else's business...

Originally posted by Gorman91
Therefore, from all scientific perspectives, there's really no legality for it beyond rape and threat to life.

...since you claim its a scientific perspective, you shouldnt have any problem producing verifiable articles from academia that support your claim...

Originally posted by Gorman91
People can argue moral and ethics till the cows come home. I don't believe in either for that very reason.

...you dont believe in morals or ethics?... uno momento por favor but based solely upon your words in this post, thats 100% usda bs...

Originally posted by Gorman91
Scientific knowledge provides reason enough why abortion because you "fell like it" is murder plain and simple.

...since you claim its scientific knowledge, you shouldnt have any problem producing verifiable articles from academia that support your claim...

Originally posted by Gorman91
It's murder for rape and threat to life as well, but for these events, freedom was violated. This nation clearly states that everyone, irregardless to age, sentience, race, blah blah blah has a right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And until any one of those are violated, there is no legality to the taking of life.

...your blah, blah, blah is archaic fantasy - but - since you brought it up, i'm obliged to point out how hypocritical your stance is since you obviously dont have a problem with limiting the rights of women in lieu of giving superior rights to the unborn...

...just like i figured, you most certainly do have ethics and morals cuz your post is all about promoting your version of whats right and whats wrong...

Originally posted by Janky Red
reply to post by Wookiep

 

I still want you to establish how you have authority over someone else's uterus and the contents?

Does that mean you are going to pay and be responsible for the choice you are making for someone else?

Well, just like when a murder occurs in any other situation, the person is convicted of a crime and has to answer to a jury. Abortion in most cases is murder IMO, therefore the law should take authority on it and the people should "get involved" making sure they get their just desserts. If you don't get that concept than it's a lost cause to explain it further.

And no I'm not going to pay for another persons kid when THEY should be held accountable for their own actions. Haven't you been paying attention? Way too much whining going on, and it's not from those who don't condone murder.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Lol, I'm not hurt at all.

Then quit f***ing whining about me not quoting your entire post already.

You brought up the political spectrum so I touched on the sensitive area you were carrying on about.

No, I did not BRING UP the political spectrum. I responded to it being brought up.

It's a little weird you don't care about the part you were crying about earlier, but oh well.

I care about what I was crying about earlier still. Your post did not contain anything relevant to that.

Don't respond to it, I'll sleep just fine thank you.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

After you bitch about it for 3 posts.

Seriously, if there was anything in that post that was so damn important to you that I address it, you could have saved a lot of time and pointed that out instead of just whining I did not quote the entire post. Get over yourself.

reply to post by Janky Red


Why yes. If it was mine I would pay for it. I'd honestly quit college and do that. because that's my responsibility. Plain and simple.

I'd be all in favor of the state forcing responsibility, be it some form of advocate for health and well being visiting, or God only knows how many other methods. The socialists seem to be on the rise these days, so I see no reason why we cannot find volunteers to care for kids. Back in the days of old, that's what the elderly were for, aside from knowledge.

How funny. Evolution of humans has produced lonely elderly and needy children. huh. Seems to me like the solution is right in front of our biological nature face.

reply to post by Kitilani


Hey buddy, go lay down and relax. No need to explode. I get it, you didn't care to respond. Now take a deep breath before that vein in your head pops.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Yes actually. It states all humans are born into the same potential abilities. Yes, even the mentally retarded. Because they often have higher abilities elsewhere where they lack in others.

That is what "scientific knowledge" says about overpopulation?
Really? Because that does not make a lick of sense in response.

Unwanted is an invented term.

All terms are invented terms. That does not kill their meaning. Are you honestly trying to suggest that people do not ever NOT want something?

So is unsustainable,

Sustainable actually means something and it appears you missed that.

as well as pretty much everything you said. Objectively they are nothing more than natural selection.

Now you are just babbling. I asked a very clear question.

Hence the glory of science. All your moral crap gets thrown out the window, because it's not a constant, not a definable term, and more or less usually the product of desperate minds in need to invent something to defend it. This is not meant to insult you, this is simple fact. Society invented the term morality. Science has none.

There are always ways to address population in a scientific method. Weather it be the extremes of simply building vertical farms, or the simple of sex education. If there is a pattern that can show a solution, it is a solution. Simple as that.

When do you get around to actually addressing what I asked you?

So please. Leave your morality at the door. It's unwelcome in the world of science.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

I can handle that just fine but I am wondering if you can fit some facts, logic, and um...science in there somewhere. That would be super helpful.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

You control what happens to your body when you have sex.

...obviously you havent had REAL sex...

THANK YOU!!!!!!

This highlights something that really stands out around here. Not only are most of the opinions on abortion given on ATS from men, reading their thoughts on sex always leave me believing they have yet to have any. So ATS seems pretty chock full of virgin men that have a lot to say about my womb.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks

...obviously you havent had REAL sex...

Using emotions for making laws is a pretty bad idea.

...correct, its my body and my responsibility to CHOOSE how i handle an unwanted pregnancy... whatever choice i make is no one else's business...

Same goes for murderers, thieves, etc etc. Law is simple. You kill for no justified reason but your own irresponsibility, you get punished.

...since you claim its a scientific perspective, you shouldnt have any problem producing verifiable articles from academia that support your claim...

Not that hard to go google human genetics. Clearly a fetus has human dna. Clearly it has all the potential to become an adult. Clearly it deserves the right to do so unless it was produced via violating freedom or will in due time violate the right to life of the mother.

..you dont believe in morals or ethics?... uno momento por favor but based solely upon your words in this post, thats 100% usda bs...

I don;t believe in morality nor ethics. Simple as that. Science provides all the evidence I need to justify why a social species ought to protect itself and its posterity.

...your blah, blah, blah is archaic fantasy - but - since you brought it up, i'm obliged to point out how hypocritical your stance is since you obviously dont have a problem with limiting the rights of women in lieu of giving superior rights to the unborn...

No I don't. Just like I'd have no problem giving more rights to a free woman out of college versus a woman who murders and is insane. Simple. We all start with the same humanity. When you use that humanity ill to society and its progress, you get punished.

...just like i figured, you most certainly do have ethics and morals cuz your post is all about promoting your version of whats right and whats wrong...

I do think there is an objective good and bad based off scientific process. It is testable that most humans would rather be alive than dead. The repeat fact of this question and test shows that such humans ought to be protected. Seems you forgot that whole 1500-1900 period of intellectuals discovering human reason, logic, the right to life, the right to sexual equality, the right to this and that. Sad. Society seems to be falling apart in history knowledge.

reply to post by Kitilani

All terms are invented terms. That does not kill their meaning. Are you honestly trying to suggest that people do not ever NOT want something?

Sure people do not want things. and they have all the right in the world to kill themselves if they don't want to live.

Sustainable actually means something and it appears you missed that.

What is sustainable? All things in time will die, and in time even the very existence of life will end in this universe. The universe is not sustainable. This is a fact. Perhaps it will restart after, great, but everything that was will be destroyed in so doing.

Therefore sustainability is an invented term. It exists purely in perspective. Yes I do believe sustainability exists. No I don't think it's justified to prevent humanity to exist.

When do you get around to actually addressing what I asked you?

Fetuses are human. They have dna. They have the same potential to get to adulthood. They deserve the same rights.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Hey buddy, go lay down and relax. No need to explode.

I get it, you didn't care to respond. Now take a deep breath before that vein in your head pops.

Holy crap. What is wrong with you. I got it. You are upset I did not reply to the entire post because not all of it was about the same thing. I got it in ALL FOUR POSTS YOU WROTE WHINING ABOUT IT.

I GOT IT!!!!!!

Are you really going to keep posting about this?

There was a question in your post. You asked it. I answered it. The rest of your post really said nothing to me. Please get over it.

reply to post by Kitilani


Rofl, Yeah sure let's keep posting about it! You keep bumping it afterall. I think it's hillarious. Do I have to be the bigger man here, buddy?

Not a big fan of abortion, but if you outlaw abortion, women will still try get them, and they will do so using extreme methods that could cause death or permanent damage. The fact of the matter is that you're extinguishing a potential human life, so I really find it tasteless for women to get like 9 abortions. I am also 100% against taxpayer money going to abortion or abortion clinics. If you want an abortion, fine, pay for it your damn self and next time use a condom or diaphram.

reply to post by hideleehoneighborino


yea but if you are that desperate to kill a life, I think you've got a hell of a lot more wrong with you than your lack of responsibility.

Personally I hate all abortion. But there is no legal basis to ban all of it. There is legal basis to ban the "I don't want to have a baby" type of abortion. Threat to life is sometimes necessary, and rape is simply the fact that you don't have the right to force that onto a person whom had no choice in the matter to have sex. I still find it disgusting, but unlike most people here, I know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity and I know that this disgust is subjective, and the law must be objective.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Rofl, Yeah sure let's keep posting about it! You keep bumping it afterall. I think it's hillarious. Do I have to be the bigger man here, buddy?

I keep bumping it? This is your 5th post crying about it. Other than responding to you about it, I have not brought it up. I really feel badly about how damaged you apparently fragile ego is. I did not read anything worth responding to so I did not respond to it. What is so hard to get about this? Your post was not that special. Do I need to go back and respond to it just to get you to stop crying about it?

Do you really think posting about it 5 times without any prompting from me is my way of dragging it out? Explain that to me.

HOW ABOUT YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT OF LET IT THE F*** GO ALREADY.

Originally posted by Kitilani

This highlights something that really stands out around here. Not only are most of the opinions on abortion given on ATS from men, reading their thoughts on sex always leave me believing they have yet to have any. So ATS seems pretty chock full of virgin men that have a lot to say about my womb.

You've just shown your maturity level. Using 'virgin' as an insult to those who disagree with you....? Are you 12?

Of course most opinions are coming from men, seeing as men make up the majority of ATS. Not everyone is reckless, impulsive, and irresponsible when it comes to sexual behavior or behavior in general for that matter. Reading your thoughts on sex shows you have yet to grow up.

Dearest Wookiep,

Please forgive me for hurting you so by not taking the time to respond to things that were not relevant or addressed to me. I see from your 5 posts crying about it, probably 6 now, that it really really bothered you. I would really like you to get over it. Ok?

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Janky Red

 

I don't know why politics always has to creep it's way in to everything. Why can't people just have a good discussion anymore?

Already answered so let me move on to the rest of the post to SOMEONE ELSE about OTHER THINGS and respond so you can shut the hell up about it. 5 friggin posts. Jesus.

Also, in all fairness when it comes to "entitlements" no-one is blaming the kids. It's the parents that need to stop expecting hand-outs. It's the parents that need to take responsibility and be accountable for their actions. Stop whining and DO something about it. If parents did just those 2 things from the start, there would be far, far less abortions and we prolly wouldn't even be having this discussion. Think about it.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Lot's of empty words that have nothing to do with the politics question, anything else I addressed, or anything I was discussing. That was to Janky Red and not me and I am certain he did answer it for you. None of the rest of this applies to anything. I answered your question about politics. I am not sure what kind of response you want to the rest of your speech but there, I QUOTED IT AND RESPONDED TO IT.
Now go take a break.

reply to post by Kitilani


Ok, ok, I'll be the bigger man here. I won't respond to your next reply about this reply.

I actually stopped "crying" about it as you put it 4 posts ago now, yet I keep hearing "OMGZ YER BITHIN ABOUT IT X TIMES NOW!!!!!" I happen to find that funny and quite entertaining... but this has gone soo off topic just talking about not talking about posts that I wouldn't be surprised to see some posts deleted. Take care!

Originally posted by Charmed707
You've just shown your maturity level. Using 'virgin' as an insult to those who disagree with you....? Are you 12?

You just showed your reading comprehension by getting that completely wrong. I did not say people that do not agree with me must be virgins. I said the ones that seem to not understand sex in any real way must be virgins. I wrote all that out so I would not have to explain it to anyone later.

Of course most opinions are coming from men, seeing as men make up the majority of ATS.

What is your point? ATS does not require anyone to post on abortion threads. These MEN choose to opine all over the place about it though.

Not everyone is reckless, impulsive, and irresponsible when it comes to sexual behavior or behavior in general for that matter. Reading your thoughts on sex shows you have yet to grow up.

Which thoughts on sex of mine have you read? I sure as hell never said any of what you just implied.

How about you supply a quote and some substance instead of just calling me immature without any real reasoning behind it? Too tough?

Originally posted by Wookiep

Originally posted by Janky Red
reply to post by Wookiep

 

I still want you to establish how you have authority over someone else's uterus and the contents?

Does that mean you are going to pay and be responsible for the choice you are making for someone else?

Well, just like when a murder occurs in any other situation, the person is convicted of a crime and has to answer to a jury. Abortion in most cases is murder IMO, therefore the law should take authority on it and the people should "get involved" making sure they get their just desserts. If you don't get that concept than it's a lost cause to explain it further.

And no I'm not going to pay for another persons kid when THEY should be held accountable for their own actions. Haven't you been paying attention? Way too much whining going on, and it's not from those who don't condone murder.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

So you are saying the state should kill a woman for having an abortion?

Again, you realize that for thousands of years, women would go and get dirty hooks put inside
of them to achieve the same results. Aren't you wise enough to recognize that a person must
feel pretty desperate to undergo such an experience. You can infer from that, that women
will continue on doing it regardless of totalitarian laws which may be enacted.

I think it is insane that you would propose putting women into prison for something they decide
regarding their own biology and body. I really think that is crazy dude...

A woman who gets an abortion is taking responsibility for her own actions, nobody is forcing her.