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Why are Americans so Vengeful?

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posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by m1991
Like compared to Europeans, Canadians, and most other First Worlders? I'm an American, and it's pretty obvious to me that American culture puts vengeance on a pedestal. I mean New Zealand police don't even carry guns, but we shoot people just for looting TV sets.

Just think about it I mean. America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason, unless a lot of American troops die and a lot of American money is wasted. Bombing entire nations into the Stone Age is acceptable retribution to many Americans for killing 3,000 of us.

Most Americans continue to support the death penalty even though most Americans also believe innocent people are occasionally put to death. I guess it's a price worth paying to exact full payback? To be fair, most Canadians also supported the concept of the death penalty until very recently, and even now it's probably a 50/50 split, but many European countries oppose it by a vast majority. If you compare Hong Kong's crime demographics (a place with no death penalty) to culturally and socially similar Singapore's (a place that uses it so much Texans might blush) you will see no evidence that the death penalty has any kind of deterring effect.

And let's face it, the reason Americans are gun-crazed isn't just because of the Second Amendment. It's because a lot of people here just love the idea of blowing someone's head off if they intrude on their property. Not to mention people love guns because they wanna feel like they're in a Hollywood movie or on the TV show Lost (love the show, but how many hundreds of gun scenes are in it?) The argument that banning guns would increase crime because only criminals would have them is wrong. If that were true, Australia, Canada, and Britain would have far more gun-related murders than the States. Besides, otherwise law abiding citizens who loved guns could still obtain them illegally if they wanted to badly enough, so it wouldn't be that ONLY thugs had guns, it would be simply a lot less people in general would have guns.

The worst thing too is Americans are especially unforgiving of the less fortunate. We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars. Isn't our indignation misplaced?

The point is, I would like to see a change from this vengeful and militaristic attitude in America. I would like us to become a peace loving and forgiving kind of people. Until then, I'm gonna laugh every time I hear people talk about Americans being the best people on Earth.
edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)


Not being funny buddy, but America, Canada, New Zealand were all populated by Brits origianally as well as many others and Brits have always been in one war or another. Maybe that is your answer.




posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l

Not being funny buddy, but America, Canada, New Zealand were all populated by Brits origianally as well as many others and Brits have always been in one war or another. Maybe that is your answer.


Could be. Yeah, the English have always been militant and arrogant, being conquerors (I say that as someone of that background too).



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by MRSeuphoric1
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Amen to that....I believe I said that 2 pages ago...

Bottom line, I believe the OP is young (20) and that this "Conversation" is now pointless being that he isn't entirely sure how he feels.

The OP's comments: "No one has shown me proof Americans are not vengeful" shows this is a pointless debate.


I'm actually 21; I was born in 1990. I just like how '1991' looks as it's a pantomime.

I am firmly convinced Americans are vengeful, people are trying to disprove my thesis but so far I've only shown that I'm correct because very few people on here agree with me we should be a more forgiving society.




I agree we should be a more forgiving and tolerant society but how many times are you going to forgive someone that keeps doing the same unforgivable acts? You lable Americians as being vengful, like all 300 million + are all in the same category, how arrogant of you to say. How many of those 300 million americians do you know? Where are you getting this information? you base your opinion on what? our government? our media? Seems like just another USA Basher, I dont think in good conscience i could come on here and say all british are lazy, or all australians are dumb, when I know very few and only get the benifit of the media to base those opinions. the few British people I actually know have been some of the nicest and smartest people i know, as well as some of the Aussies I know, Hell I have an Aussie for a Brother in Law.

I dont agree with how our country is being run anymore then the rest of the world, and I am sure its easy to sit on your laptop and bash another culture cause of what a select few people have done. We are not the only country in the world that display acts of vengence, greed, pettiness.


Edit: My bad I read further on and found you are an americian yourself, I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you were not. So I still would like to know what your sources are?
edit on 2-9-2011 by Aleksander because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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Just think about it I mean. America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason, unless a lot of American troops die and a lot of American money is wasted. Bombing entire nations into the Stone Age is acceptable retribution to many Americans for killing 3,000 of us.


I'm pretty sure that's China with regard to the first point. Your last point; it was nearer 2,700 Americans and 300 other nationalities. But all in all, these are surface matters. It's not the people on the street, it's those who run the country. They are part of a group that is nation-less, its driving force is money and control.

These ignorant threads are tiring. They take perceived surface issues and treat them as if they are what's happening at the core and as if they are factual.

Enough.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Aleksander

I agree we should be a more forgiving and tolerant society but how many times are you going to forgive someone that keeps doing the same unforgivable acts? You lable Americians as being vengful, like all 300 million + are all in the same category, how arrogant of you to say. How many of those 300 million americians do you know? Where are you getting this information? you base your opinion on what? our government? our media? Seems like just another USA Basher, I dont think in good conscience i could come on here and say all british are lazy, or all australians are dumb, when I know very few and only get the benifit of the media to base those opinions. the few British people I actually know have been some of the nicest and smartest people i know, as well as some of the Aussies I know, Hell I have an Aussie for a Brother in Law.

I dont agree with how our country is being run anymore then the rest of the world, and I am sure its easy to sit on your laptop and bash another culture cause of what a select few people have done. We are not the only country in the world that display acts of vengence, greed, pettiness.


Jesus said forgive seventy seven times seven, I mean I'm not saying we should just let Manson free, but I think it's wrong to hate even the worst people. No matter how bad a person is, they should not be put to death. I find it shocking how most people in this country still like the idea of execution. It's the 21st century for crying out loud. I'm glad you agree with my basic premise we should be more forgiving though.

I never said every American was vengeful, of course there's a good 20-30% who aren't. The vast majority are though, and this thread has proven that as hardly anyone here agrees with me that we should be a more forgiving people. I base my opinion (it's really fact tbh) on Gallup polls and all the Americans I've met online and in real life. By the way I AM an American so it's not like I'm bashing some foreign country.

No you're right, we're not the only country that is vengeful, greedy, petty or has vice. However, were are not as nice, charitable, righteous, and so on as we pump ourselves up to be. In fact I find American culture in general pretty mean-spirited in a lot of ways.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by m1991
 


Vengence can be a good thing. It sends a message that you are not to be trifled with. Strength commands respect, if not fear. When you have the upper hand, you can dictate how things go.

But it must be a balanced approach. Respect is a good thing, while fear is not. We see it everyday through military and diplomatic channels. And as I'm sure you are aware, it doesn't always go smoothly.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Morg234


I'm pretty sure that's China with regard to the first point. Your last point; it was nearer 2,700 Americans and 300 other nationalities. But all in all, these are surface matters. It's not the people on the street, it's those who run the country. They are part of a group that is nation-less, its driving force is money and control.

These ignorant threads are tiring. They take perceived surface issues and treat them as if they are what's happening at the core and as if they are factual.

Enough.


I agree the people "on top" are by far the worst, but the average American isn't exactly a sweetheart either. I mean let's be real.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Vengence can be a good thing. It sends a message that you are not to be trifled with. Strength commands respect, if not fear. When you have the upper hand, you can dictate how things go.


Sounds like something out of Machiavelli.

Does ANYONE believe in peace and love anymore? Or do we live in a totally cynical age? *sigh*
edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Vengeful? [joke] I'm gonna get you for that!![/joke]

No. Just very, perhaps at times overly so, protectful of what we view as ours.

Someone wants to steal my TV? I'm probably going to let him/her do so, unless they try to harm me or my family in the process... It's just a thing, and very replaceable. Others may not be so "understanding".

Most Americans that I know, I since I am American, that's quite a few; feel the same way. Understanding, even forgiving, but only to a point. Pass that point? You're going to have a problem on your hands.

That's not vengeful. Not sure you can define exactly what it is, since there are so many shades of color involved.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
Vengeful? [joke] I'm gonna get you for that!![/joke]

No. Just very, perhaps at times overly so, protectful of what we view as ours.

Someone wants to steal my TV? I'm probably going to let him/her do so, unless they try to harm me or my family in the process... It's just a thing, and very replaceable. Others may not be so "understanding".

Most Americans that I know, I since I am American, that's quite a few; feel the same way. Understanding, even forgiving, but only to a point. Pass that point? You're going to have a problem on your hands.

That's not vengeful. Not sure you can define exactly what it is, since there are so many shades of color involved.



Maybe militant would be a better term. Or maybe forgiving of little things but vengeful of big things? Though I get the idea many Americans would shoot a person to save their TV, even if there was no threat to their life, and then sleep like a baby. I dunno.


I wouldn't even kill a person to protect my family. Hurt them yeah, but I don't think I would kill them intentionally. I suppose if I got too pumped up, I might kill them by accident. Trying to kill them on purpose to me would feel like a revenge murder, but I would do what I needed to ...
edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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And let's face it, the reason Americans are gun-crazed isn't just because of the Second Amendment.


Not true. Most Americans Don't even know what the 2nd amendment is. I don't know where you're from but a gun is more than a tool of vengeance for people. You clearly haven't studied anything other than the 2nd amendment.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Vengence can be a good thing. It sends a message that you are not to be trifled with. Strength commands respect, if not fear. When you have the upper hand, you can dictate how things go.


Sounds like something out of Machiavelli.

Does ANYONE believe in peace and love anymore? Or do we live in a totally cynical age? *sigh*
edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)


Well, there is the saying :

Peace through Superior Firepower.


If you are strong from the get go, chances are that no one will mess with you. But usually there is always one who will.

I don't look at it as vengence, but rather sending a message. The smart ones usually get it and try to become freinds and allies.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Just cause we like shooting stuff doesn't mean its always people. And the masses have been brainwashed into believing we're fighting a just war on terror, when al'qaeda was pretty much launched by the CIA. We're constantly on the lookout it seems, by all the job loss and crime that has arisen from the "lol war on drugs" and vacuum of jobs leaving this country, and people have grown apart from one another and now live within small groups or sheltered away completely. The village street barbecue is becoming a thing of the past. Until we get jobs back into this country, stop the war on drugs, stop the foreign occupations, the first two lowering crime significantly, people will continue to pit themselves against one another because of basic survival instinct.
edit on 9/2/2011 by smarterthanyou because: typo



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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I think it gradually became embedded into American culture, partly due to the American Civil War, the American old west style and then strengthened by the 2nd ammendment.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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Nice troll thread. To anyone that doesn't know, an m1991 is a Colt .45 1911 (hope to get a 1911 for my birthday, BTW). It's also a rocket system used by the North Korean army.

Interesting that the OP's forum name is the same as that of those two items, yes?

/TOA
edit on 2-9-2011 by The Old American because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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Actually, on a per capita basis, the Roman Empire had the biggest military the world has ever seen.

Here we go again, claiming that the USA is "the best in history at this", or "has the biggest in history that" while completely ignoring thousands of years of massive civilizations that had way more in terms of per capita military than USA does now.

Heck, the USA doesn't even have military service anymore, like several so called "civilized" countries.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:22 PM
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I admit it....

I'm vengeful, very vengeful. I have a list and if you are on it, God help you! So play nice or go to your room.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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I'm American, i don't think i'm vengeful?

Don't just put errybody in a big pot together.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by radosta
Do a very cursery review of history and tell me that people aren't inherently violent. "Evil" is a value judgement. Look at other members of the primate family. The ones most closely related to us are also very violent and have class hierarchies. Are chimpanzees evil? We are what we are. Animals controlled by our biological impulses. Philosophy and automobiles won't change that.


What, so, no revolution ever worked? The Enlightenment was an illusion? "I Have A Dream" didn't change ANYTHING?

The fact human beings are blessed with such a high form of intellect allows for a secondary kind of evolution that can turn us away from our violent past. In a biological level, yes, there is a 'mean streak' in humans, but we are evolving out of it, and I really feel like we are destined for greater things.


Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but watch, as the US prominence fades, you will be wowed by the atrocities committed by China.Your children or grandchildren will be blown away by the atrocities committed by the the power that comes after them.
Per our "high intellect", that is a very relative thing. A cow is a supra genius compared to a crawfish and we may be less than earthworms mentally compared to other species out there (not that I necessarily believe in them)

If you think there is anything unique about the "bad things" the US does, you are very naive.
Go spend some time in another country for a little bit. Not sure where your information about passports comes from, but everywhere I've ever heard of, you can expedite a passport and get it in a few weeks.
You think Italy is great? As someone who's been there, yes it's very cool, but believe me, there is nothing fundamentally different about modern Italy from Fascist Italy besides a military budget.

And several people have said things that make very good counterpoints to your OP, but if choose not to register them, then you are a true believer. And one thing that is kind of pointless is arguing with true believers.

I do not envy you your future disillusionment with humanity as a whole.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by The Old American
Nice troll thread. To anyone that doesn't know, an m1991 is a Colt .45 1911 (hope to get a 1911 for my birthday, BTW). It's also a rocket system used by the North Korean army.

Interesting that the OP's forum name is the same as that of those two items, yes?

/TOA
edit on 2-9-2011 by The Old American because: (no reason given)


Perhaps he chose it as a tribute to the humanitarianism of Kim Jing Il?



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