A Dire Metaphysical Warning to all Atheists!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Logman
Doesn't matter what you believe. What happens to you when you die is the same for all - whatever that may be.

Not according to quantum reality and a monistic idealism framework, where consciousness is primary at the very ground of all being, and becoming. What we observe, what we think, believe, how we judge, and the content of our mind, and our innermost self and it's qualia does determine reality to a very large degree, if not entirely. Now, therefore is the time to re-evaluate, if there ever was one thus the word "dire" in the title..

No, really. You get out there and things get a lot clearer. You never are in a position of 'direness'. Why would you want to foster such fear mongering??? And hum.. maybe you have me on ignore or something. Kinda rude that, eh?

reply to post by DragonriderGal

Forgive me, your insights are valuable, and I've read a lot about people with your experience, which is very interesting, VERY!

By "dire" I am alluding to a "joke" based on the frame of reference that eternity is already always now and forever, and that therefore indeed we are between lives even now, to the degree that the learning we realize, now, and what we think, choose, believe, and discern, now, goes out like waves through eternity, and your own experience ought to validate that premise.

There's an interesting book called "The Holographic Universe" by Brian Talbot, which provides a relatively convincing argument that your experiences do not reside outside the realm of modern quantum science, are you familiar with it, then again you don't need to read "about" it, having "been there" while retaining a memory of it. Btw, were you ever an atheist, maybe in a past life..?

Originally posted by rogerstigers
Sorry.. a bit confused here...

are you saying that Atheists who are comfortable and at peace with the idea that there is no god or afterlife should be careful because by believing that, there will not be an afterlife for them?

Where is the warning here?

May you "rest in peace"...

reply to post by NewAgeMan


So are you saying you began a thread with a dire warning for Atheists but all the while it was a joke? Ha! I am sooooo confused about the subject of this thread....really. What are you trying to accomplish? Maybe that will give me some insight.

Peace and love to you and yours!!! xoxoxo

Jenn

reply to post by MamaJ

I am asking people to try on the alternative frame of reference, not as a belief "in" God, but that of God and eternity as our already-always condition. This "joke" about death, I cannot GIVE, I cannot force, or it wouldn't be funny, it has to be discovered on one's own, and it cannot be understood within the frame of our prior POV or presumptions, not even by "reason" in the traditional sense, only by the knowledge of an experience or of an "ah ha" moment of epiphany, or what's called "gnosis", which is really the only real "knowledge" there is, so it's not idle speculation, and if now is all there is, then it always carries with it a certain "sense of urgency".. (see that's funny!).

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I am asking people to try on the alternative frame of reference, not as a belief "in" God, but that of God and eternity as our already-always condition. This "joke" about death, I cannot GIVE, I cannot force, or it wouldn't be funny, it has to be discovered on one's own, and it cannot be understood within the frame of our prior POV or presumptions, not even by "reason" in the traditional sense, only by the knowledge of an experience or of an "ah ha" moment of epiphany, or what's called "gnosis", which is really the only real "knowledge" there is, so it's not idle speculation, and if now is all there is, then it always carries with it a certain "sense of urgency".. (see that's funny!).

Ok!!!

Let me see if I am clear in regards to your "thinking". :lol (Sorry had to laugh) Please know....I laugh at myself all the time when I get to thinking!!!

Ok.....So.....You are saying one cannot be forced to believe or not to believe?

You are also saying one needs to find a "source" or not...in order to have that AH-HA....Moment? I love those moments....I think I am addicted to that feeling??? Is this where the urgency comes in to play?

Now is all there is....?? That is true in my opinion but I have GOT to add...."only in a time perceived existence". I hope that is ok with you.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Which is why I'm warning you now, today at this point in the eternally unfolding present moment!

Warning? I guess we should thank you for your holy message?

You're just as naive as us in terms of knowledge, you just agree to one possible theory of existence/reality, and it's a half-baked one at that.

And of course, you'd have to thoroughly explain your definition of God.

Typical theistic strategy; warn disbelievers in to submission.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

Forgive me, your insights are valuable, and I've read a lot about people with your experience, which is very interesting, VERY!

By "dire" I am alluding to a "joke" based on the frame of reference that eternity is already always now and forever, and that therefore indeed we are between lives even now, to the degree that the learning we realize, now, and what we think, choose, believe, and discern, now, goes out like waves through eternity, and your own experience ought to validate that premise.

There's an interesting book called "The Holographic Universe" by Brian Talbot, which provides a relatively convincing argument that your experiences do not reside outside the realm of modern quantum science, are you familiar with it, then again you don't need to read "about" it, having "been there" while retaining a memory of it. Btw, were you ever an atheist, maybe in a past life..?

Thank you for the response, NewAgeMan.

I would love to read about others with my experience! May I ask where you've encountered those? I haven't met anyone thus far, and it would be great to compare notes!

And yes, you're right. Some part of us is in all those places right now. The future has many possiblities though, so the 'hows' of our path aren't set in stone and our decisions made in the 'here and now' will send ripples foward into our future, but not our past. That is pretty much set in stone. It's kinda like zipping up a zipper---before it closes, there is room for a lot of stuff. But once it's zipped, there is only the line of the zipper.

So we all, in theory, could be in all those places, but keeping track of them in the body is way tricky, plus most of us do have genetic limitations on what and how much we can receive thru the connection to the racial unconscious which also limits our ability to connect to the spirit realm as well.

My being connected to the racial unconscious must have been improved because it was coming from the other side, or else my acceptance of that connection made the flow of information more possible. But my access to the spirit realm is still fairly limited, so I believe it was something done by the racial unconscious to make my connection there stronger, versus fixing my 'limitations'.

I do get stuff from the spirit realm but nothing like the history of the world. More like current events and stuff, and seeing that the information many get from dreams and such are really things being sent them by entities there, for furthering the propaganda of TPTB's agenda of fear mongering and such. I think the more you use the ability, though, the stronger you can make it, because my ability has increased from when I first started.

Hum.. was I ever an atheist? I tended to go along with whatever religion was most popular in past lives. I always have had a sense that there is some higher power guiding our paths. I couldn't name it, but I knew pretty much all along it wasn't the 'god' presented to us by Christianity in this life anyway. In past lives, though, I didn't even think about spiritual things, and never to the level that I chose be a priest or nun. In my recollections of some of my more recent past lives, I always felt a bitterness and anger by the end of them towards my religion, because 'god' had failed me so much and so often, and the priests/ministers/whoever never could really explain why those failures occurred (one was the loss of a child). It was always some drivel about having more 'faith' usually.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
And hum.. maybe you have me on ignore or something. Kinda rude that, eh?

Just wondering, do you have me on ignore? You still have attempted to answer my questions...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

 

Then you are simply open minded or agnostic about it, an understandable position to take, if not the easy one (don't take that the wrong way I don't mean it disparagingly)

If what I strongly suspect is true, then you'll be found, ALS, but if found in eternity, why wait.. bearing in mind too that he who is found also finds whatever he was looking for..

Perhaps you are not "a lost soul" after all!

If it is true that God is love, then I don't have to wait. I have already been found by my be all and end all and the one she carries

ALS

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
And hum.. maybe you have me on ignore or something. Kinda rude that, eh?

Just wondering, do you have me on ignore? You still have attempted to answer my questions...

Hum.. if you are addressing me, I did answer any post from you that I saw. Did I miss something?

Originally posted by Hydroman
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

Could you answer these questions for me please?

What do you look like as a spirit? What do you sound like? What language do you speak? When you're ready to get in a new body, how do you do it? Is this the only planet you've been to, or have you inhabited beings on other planets? If not, why not? If yes, what planets and what do these beings look like physically?

When you are a spirit, what do you use for thinking, since you more than likely don't have a brain? What do you use for speaking, since you probably don't have vocal cords? What do you use for seeing, as you may not have eye balls connected to the aforementioned brain that you also do not have, or do you? How do you hear if you do not have ears, or do you?

Sorry! I just found this! I missed a whole page of stuff from yesterday.

-You look like energy, sometimes kinda wispy, sometimes invisible to human eyes.

-You sound like energy. But mostly unheard by human level hearing unless a radio or tv are on.

-You don't need language. Communications are spirit to spirit aka 'telepathy'.

-And when ready to reincarnate, you just hang out by the people who you want to reincarnate with while they are procreating. The newly created body will suck you in.

-I've actually been to a lot of planets before I became human, back when I was a dragon rider. And most other aliens don't allow other species spirits to incarnate in their bodies, so the chances of being anything but your original spirit origins and human are pretty unlikely. And feel free to read my threads about other aliens I see in existence. Plus from what I see, there are quite a few more.

-You always have your sense of 'knowingness' and information available in the racial unconscious, even in spirit form, but yes, it does help to be in a body because you can 'think' better.

-You use (as noted before) spirit to spirit communication both to send and receive, and when you realize that we are all connected to the basic energy field of existence, such communications aren't that hard to do.
Again we can 'sense' stuff as spirits, and typically it will manifest in the forms we are most familiar with, like seeing and hearing, even speaking even though it is actually only our perceptions of said activity.

Originally posted by DrinkYourDrug
reply to post by Hydroman

 

When you are a spirit, what do you use for thinking, since you more than likely don't have a brain? What do you use for speaking, since you probably don't have vocal cords? What do you use for seeing, as you may not have eye balls connected to the aforementioned brain that you also do not have, or do you? How do you hear if you do not have ears, or do you?

This.

If life/experience or "spirits"/"souls" etc can exist outside of the physical realm (in apparent bliss) then why even have a physical realm? Why create this physical realm just so that we can have this elaborate test to determine what happens to all these "souls" for eternity?

Also, since everybody identifies themselves with ever changing human characteristics that are a function of the environment and the human brain (which as a result of evolution is a function of the environment), I would like to hear from people who believe in spirits/souls etc what exactly is carried forward by the soul and what is left behind as merely human characteristics? In other words, if you suddenly died and found yourself as a soul/spirit, how would you know that "you" were "you"? Things like memory and personality are functions of the brain. If they were attached to the soul (or a function of the soul), there would be no need for the brain to store memory or to determine behaviour (as the soul would perform these tasks).

One can only conclude that it is not a test. It is not serious. The true nature of the universe is playful. If all this was created by being(s) in another realm, it was to be more of a game than a serious test. If all this was not created by being(s) in another realm then there is still no reason to take it seriously.

That is part of what all of this is about. Finding out who 'you' are, so that when we make full enlightenment, we won't lose ourselves in the vastness of the univeral energy field. Sorta like being a raindrop in the ocean. You have to 'know' you in the fullest sense to remain a 'self'. It really isnt' about all going back to being one energy; its about being one energy but still having the ability to remain a self and act with independent interdependence.

We carry who we are in our spirits as well though, all stored in the racial unconscious. I can even see how spirit origins influence who we currently are as people today. For example, how most asians are very uncomfortable with being singled out. Most of them are ex-greys who come from a hive mind. Individualism exists at a very low level there, and being unique got you kicked out of the hive mind aka killed. And then you weren't allowed to reincarnate as a grey. Like be excommunicated at the spirit level. Bad news for the very overly enmeshed greys.

Here in America and Western Europe in general, though, it was mostly the elder races like the E-l*th (we mispronounce it Elves), fairies, gnomes, and so on that tend to reincarnate in the Caucasian race. TPTB have done all they can to try to convince us that these aliens are just myths though. Anyway, the Elder race values are more in the 'freedom, liberty, justice for all, diversity is good, everyone is equal' category and it isn't surprising that it is usually these people that are the hardest to keep enslaved. And people with these origins will 'instinctively' value those things from day one pretty much.

Me, as an ex-dragonrider, my preference towards solitude and distance from people is very much from my dragon rider days. Predators are solitary. If you are on my ground, you're either 1) dinner or 2) trying to eat my dinner. So other than mating, we dragon riders were very solitary. And we were only semi-sentient until our dragons found us. So there is a whole world of my kind of being that is probably still semi-sentient.

And since our access to our memories in the racial unconscious are limited, we've just carried on the tradition from our pre-sentient days of keeping our current life memories in our head.

reply to post by DragonriderGal

Two book recommendations for you, that might be of interest. One is "The Holographic Universe" which I mentioned, by Talbot, which attempts, fairly successfully to put forward a case based on modern quantum science which would allow for such possibilities, along with various other paranormal phenomenon.

The other, definitely up your alley would be "Journey of Souls" by Dr. Michael Newton, who also maintains a website www.spiritualregression.org...

Hope that's helpful.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

Two book recommendations for you, that might be of interest. One is "The Holographic Universe" which I mentioned, by Talbot, which attempts, fairly successfully to put forward a case based on modern quantum science which would allow for such possibilities, along with various other paranormal phenomenon.

The other, definitely up your alley would be "Journey of Souls" by Dr. Michael Newton, who also maintains a website www.spiritualregression.org...

Hope that's helpful.

Well, after perusing that website, some of it rings true, but I don't remember any 'organization' of teachers and counselors 'helping' each individual soul. You and your higher self pretty much do that. You can always ask other of the spirits who are with you on the journey thru your lifetime for their opinion of your behavior and such, but it isn't like some giant school for spiritual growth, from what I remember. There's your ultimate purpose, which you and the overarching sentience of humanity agree upon at the outset, and then you and your higher self do as needed to reach that goal.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-You look like energy, sometimes kinda wispy, sometimes invisible to human eyes.

When you say "energy" what are you talking about?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-You sound like energy. But mostly unheard by human level hearing unless a radio or tv are on.

What does a radio or tv have to do with anything?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-You don't need language. Communications are spirit to spirit aka 'telepathy'.

Even in telepathy, some form of language would be needed. How else could you communicate what you want to say?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-And when ready to reincarnate, you just hang out by the people who you want to reincarnate with while they are procreating. The newly created body will suck you in.

You watch people have sex and when an egg is fertilized you are sucked in? What if the guy pulls out at the last moment? Then what? What would happen if you were watching an orgy and multiple fertilizations occurred?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-I've actually been to a lot of planets before I became human, back when I was a dragon rider.

Have you been reading Anne McCaffrey?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
And most other aliens don't allow other species spirits to incarnate in their bodies, so the chances of being anything but your original spirit origins and human are pretty unlikely.

Spirits have species? So, you can inhabit a human on another planet? What other planets out there are inhabited, since you've been there?

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
-You use (as noted before) spirit to spirit communication both to send and receive, and when you realize that we are all connected to the basic energy field of existence, such communications aren't that hard to do.
Again we can 'sense' stuff as spirits, and typically it will manifest in the forms we are most familiar with, like seeing and hearing, even speaking even though it is actually only our perceptions of said activity.

What does a spirit have to gain by jumping from body to body?

reply to post by NeverForget


Sorry you missed the playfulness and the humor, I did place a smiley face emoticon at the end of that sentence and if you've followed the thread you might see that the accusation you've made isn't entirely founded.

Dear Atheists (God bless you),

Please consider this whole thread nothing more than a "trial run" at this thing called death, however feeble you feel the attempt on my part, or others, to somehow convey the heart, the humor, and the love, and more fun and laughter.. here and everywhere, or nowhere in particular, in recognizing (recognizing) our place, our true standing, our origin and our destiny, in eternity or the everything already always, now and forever, by recognizing that nothing and no thing in particular, by it's very nature, is already nothing of any consequence or significance. Then, the everything already always is by its very nature everyrhing and the whole and here we sit atop this mountain of an eternal cosmic evolutionary process, as the highest creative expression of a sacred impulse, which is never to rest for very long, because in eternity, there is always SOME thing or another to do..

And so I then ask you this, and I would like your,honest reaction to this question..

In the space of nothing, and everything (all possibility), and standing at the threshold of a doorway, of infinite possibility, but without condition (as the very unconditioned ground of being, and becoming), and therefore a possibility that requires by necessity nothing whatsover from you, and while remaining entirely free to choose a new possibility, perhaps something both old AND new - what inspires you? What moves you...?


There is "no not", but, and here's the kicker, the punchline if you will, regarding death - the only possibility, that ISN'T possible or is it?, is the possibility of escape, from either one's true self IN God, or ife meeting life in eternity, that we already are part of, not as a "thing" but as part of a magnificent, creative process, of growth and learning, and having new experiences (riding a dragon on another world doesn't' sound so bad to me.. LOL)

We are "in' already. So why should we assume that our choosing self, our most essential "I am', is not also, in some manner, also a non -local, holographic phenomenon, and I don't mean exclusively on the material surface of things, but the "involved" and informed internal beingness, the "qualia" or self-awareness of being nothing but our true self, fully self expressed, and with the unending, ecstatic HUMOR of gnosis, of knowledge and experience, not as an intellectual or rational knowing ABOUT, but an experiential and yes, a very personal relationship, WITH.

When we realize God, God realizes himself, again, through us..

Let us therefore never forget who we are, being both human AND divine.

It's hard to get, to find enjoyable, or humorous, only because of the magnitude of all manner of preconceptions or even contemptuous bias, prior to investigation, which is a certain way of keeping a person in everlasting ignorance.. Either that, or a bitter wall of disappointment, as a defense, not against having an authentic, spiritual experience, but as a defence, against against nothing but the indignity of absurd injustices of life (the part that we take seriously, which destroys our good-natured humor, but which, as I pointed out before, are no longer of any consequence in the light of this awareness or realization, this humor of understanding or gnosis, which is also an inconquorable and indestructible rock of ages, because once something is understood or learned, it cannot be unlearned, and the mind and heart, once they change their shape, can never go back to thei original configuration.

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by Hydroman
*snip to avoid punishment for excess quoting*
...What does a spirit have to gain by jumping from body to body?

edit on 2-9-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Energy aka energy... like electricty is energy. It is however, spirit energy and nothing the PTB will allow to be proven. They don't want us to know we reincarnate because they would lose their control over us based out of our fear of death.

The radio or tv can be disrupted by the spirit's energy. Other than that, not likely you'll hear it, unless it creaks something or some other manifestation of 'haunting' you hear about.

And telepathy doesn't require a common language.. it works with concepts and images at the spirit level.

Since, out in the spirit realm such things like an up coming fertilization is known about, there will be as many spirits as needed for the multiple created humans. Since we choose our life paths, and the bodies we're born into for our best spirit growth and if that is the one we've lined up, then it will be there, a mutually agreed upon occurrence arranged between the involved spirits beforehand.

And no, I haven't been reading Anne McCaffery although I've read her in the past. Her portrayals of dragons is way too nice. They are actually quite a mean bunch; fussy and easily angered. Heck, my nickname is "DRAGONRIDERGAL"; so you think I just made that up because it sounded cute?? I know about dragons.

No, humans aren't on other planets. IF you die near earth, as an alien, you can almost count on ending up in a human body. And from what I see in the racial unconscious, a LOT of humans have other species origins, which is why so many people don't feel at home here. It's a left over spirit sense, that in fact, they don't.

Spirits don't jump from body to body. Pretty much the only way out of a human body is to die; even then it's very hard to not reincarnate as a human and most of our spirits wouldn't want to anyway, at the highest self level, because anyone who's switched to being human knows that we are the only species able to make full enlightenment, so if they have any interest in doing so, human is where they'll have to be.

Its not like death hurts. We dont get to one or the other sides and say "WOW! That really hurt!"

We tend to waste whole lifetimes preparing being good or bad for the other side. Seems quite pointless. We should be living life to the fullest. Not in contemplation of what we'll be when we arent anymore...alive that is.