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So, above are all the verses he interspersed throughout that other thread, that I thought would be useful in transferring the argument to here.
So you have no scriptures that support God nullifying His everlasting land covenant with Abraham's seed? I've posted scripture detailing that this was an everlasting covenant. You claim it's not, so where is the Biblical support that God abandoned His promise.
Try again, I don't want your opinions, show me where the Bible says this.
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. ~ Genesis 17:7-8
John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish evangelist, and an influential figure among the original Plymouth Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism. He produced a translation of the Bible based on the Hebrew and Greek texts called The Holy Scriptures: A New Translation from the Original Languages by J. N. Darby.
Those with faith are Abraham's spiritual seed, but there was a land covenant made with his physical seed.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
This is the way I understood it (as in the OP) and I did not grow up in a church infected with the Darby/Scolfield heresy.
The first I heard of any of this (the Land of God philosophy) was when the book, Late Great Planet Earth came out. I read it and decided it was b* cover to cover including all of its salvation theology.
I should investigate this a bit and if anyone has any ideas on the subject, please contribute.
Scofield Reference Bible first published in 1909
The Late, Great Planet Earth published in 1970
John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish evangelist, and an influential figure among the original Plymouth Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism. He produced a translation of the Bible based on the Hebrew and Greek texts called The Holy Scriptures: A New Translation from the Original Languages by J. N. Darby.
Darby
Originally posted by jmdewey60
Those with faith are Abraham's spiritual seed, but there was a land covenant made with his physical seed.
Here's another quote from the same poster I was quoting earlier, from the other thread. This was his response to my charge of racism.
My response would be, still sounds like racism to me.
You can say such and such have some sort of relationship with this genetically select group but you still have a genetically select group as the foundation for your philosophy.
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. ~ Genesis 17:7-8
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well i was always of the opinion that the everlasting covenant with the jews was eternal life, because the next time God destroys the earth it is supposed to be with fire. So the orignal Jerusalem is going to be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will have to take its place because the old must pass away before the new can arrive, but i always thought that the new jerusalem was supposed to be in heaven because God is supposed to make us a new earth where we can live in our new bodies.
OK, very good post to get this discussion started. Everlasting covenent is I think fundamental to a study on this topic. We can check that word you gave a description of and with the miracle of the Internet, we can do specialized word searches from the convenience of our personal computers.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You've only posted Hebrews 9:15. That verse doesn't show God annulling His "everlasting" covenant with Abraham.
I have a verse in the OP which is fundamental to Christianity which explains the very existence of Christianity.
I don't see a single scripture in your post. Heretics are easily shown to be ones by the Word of God. Where is your Biblical support?
It sounds exactly like the way I was taught in the church I went to but it was not a generic "Evangelical" church which were coopted by the proponents of dispensationalism. We already had a eschatology which was developed before the publishing of the Darby Bible.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well i was always of the opinion that the everlasting covenant with the jews was eternal life, because the next time God destroys the earth it is supposed to be with fire. So the orignal Jerusalem is going to be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will have to take its place because the old must pass away before the new can arrive, but i always thought that the new jerusalem was supposed to be in heaven because God is supposed to make us a new earth where we can live in our new bodies.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Well for 2000 years the jews were scattered across the world, and in the mid 1900's they all returned to Israel.
Israel became a nation long ago, and it has always remained the same, evne when her people were thrown to the four corners of the earth. They made it back home, so apparently it is still theirs, but it has ignited a huge religious war between jews and palestinians (muslims). These 2 nations have been fighting over that land since Isaac and Ishmael.
Who did God intend to be the legitimate heir of Abraham? The firstborn ishmael by his mistress or the legitimate firstborn by his wife Rachel?
Perhaps the land belongs to the heirs of Isaac AND Ishmael since they were both heirs of Abraham?
Theres no biblical evidence, or historical for that matter because men in those times thought very differently than we do now. In those days it was more likely that the legitimate heir was the firstborn of whomever the wife or wives were.
He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” Genesis 22:2
"and she (Sarah) said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." Genesis 21:10
"But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. Genesis 21:12
"But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” Galatians 4:30
But that is the question, was the bible corrupted in favor of Isaac over Ishmael? No way to answer that question unless some ancient and older text than the Torah is discovered. We'll be looking for Abraham's diary or biography.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
I have a verse in the OP which is fundamental to Christianity which explains the very existence of Christianity.
I don't see a single scripture in your post. Heretics are easily shown to be ones by the Word of God. Where is your Biblical support?
It seems any Bible verse which does not support your party's position is like water on a duck's back.
According to you, for 1800 years, Christianity was entirely populated by heretics since dispensationalism was only a modern invention.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
It sounds exactly like the way I was taught in the church I went to but it was not a generic "Evangelical" church which were coopted by the proponents of dispensationalism. We already had a eschatology which was developed before the publishing of the Darby Bible.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well i was always of the opinion that the everlasting covenant with the jews was eternal life, because the next time God destroys the earth it is supposed to be with fire. So the orignal Jerusalem is going to be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will have to take its place because the old must pass away before the new can arrive, but i always thought that the new jerusalem was supposed to be in heaven because God is supposed to make us a new earth where we can live in our new bodies.
See, now you are talking about something completely different.
We're talking about the Abrahamic land covenant in this thread. Genesis 17:7-8. The OP feels Israel has no right to the land it occupies. Which in essence challenges the integrity of God Himself.
There are the "lost ten tribes of Israel" who were scattered and are not distinguishable from anyone else in the countries they reside in. Those have not returned since they would not even identify themselves as being Israelites.
Well for 2000 years the jews were scattered across the world, and in the mid 1900's they all returned to Israel. Israel became a nation long ago, and it has always remained the same, evne when her people were thrown to the four corners of the earth. They made it back home, so apparently it is still theirs, but it has ignited a huge religious war between jews and palestinians (muslims).