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Everlasting Land Covenant With Abraham, Was There, and Is There Now?

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posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You also have the remarkable prophecy fulfilled to the very day Israel would again become a nation. Written thousands of years before May 14, 1948. You're as wrong as you can be on the nation of Israel, her right to the land through the Abrahamic land covenant of Genesis 17, and the near return of the Messiah Jesus Christ to gather His church, then focus on the Jews until they accept their Messiah during the Great Tribulation. Repent JM, the sheep in goats judgement is primarily about how countries and individuals treated the Jews and the nation of Israel.
If you have some sort of evidence to back up any of these claims, then go ahead and present it.
What does "focus on the Jews" mean.


It's already been linked. It's quite a bit more remarkable than Gabriel's prophecy for when the Messiah would arrive in Israel as the Messiah the Prince. That prophecy was given hundreds of years in advance and fulfilled to the day. This prophecy for when Israel would be brought back into the land was written 2,500 years beforehand and fulfilled to the very day.

May 14, 1948.




posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

He one of the best Bible teachers in existence. He's been teaching it for 50 years. His resume compared to you is ridiculous. And I'm going to point out that you provided zero of his arguments/statements and shown them to be wrong. And did exactly what I said you'd do... resort to ad hominem fallacies.
If he is so good, then you should understand it.
How about you presenting the points because I can't watch the video.
He's just saying, "Don't get technical on me."
I had a girlfriend like that. She would say, "So what's the difference?"
I would say, "One is the truth and one is a lie."
She would be like, "And . . ?"



Completely ad hominem rebuttal from you. In layman's terms: "Irrelevant". The "10 lost tribes" of Israel is a myth.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by Mividau
 

I know that you may not like this theology, But it is very well known and taught.

I think that is the difference, how old you are when you are introduced to the "Land of God" philosophy.
If one is very young, they accept it as a point of faith. I was already eighteen years old when I first heard it and had not incorporated it into my personal religion so when I did see it, I could look at it objectively and see it was clearly bunk.
I get what your perspective is and agree. What you need to understand is the spirit of Yahweh you need to tap into in order to just rob and murder your way into possessing it instead of waiting on the Most High God, who Jesus knew. Jesus pointed out to the Jews of his day that they had rejected the God of Abraham and had accepted only the murderer.
edit on 27-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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"And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you." Genesis 17:7


"Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant." Genesis 17:13


"Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him." Genesis 17:19


"There above it stood the LORD, and he said: "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying." Genesis 28:13


"I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens." Exodus 6:4


"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God." Leviticus 25:38


"I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you." Leviticus 26:9


"But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the LORD." Leviticus 26:45


"The angel of the LORD went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers. I said, 'I will never break my covenant with you'," Judges 2:1


"He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant:" Psalm 105:10












edit on 27-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Mividau
 

I know that you may not like this theology, But it is very well known and taught.

I think that is the difference, how old you are when you are introduced to the "Land of God" philosophy.
If one is very young, they accept it as a point of faith. I was already eighteen years old when I first heard it and had not incorporated it into my personal religion so when I did see it, I could look at it objectively and see it was clearly bunk.
I get what your perspective is and agree. What you need to understand is the spirit of Yahweh you need to tap into in order to just rob and murder your way into possessing it instead of waiting on the Most High God, who Jesus knew. Jesus pointed out to the Jews of his day that they had rejected the God of Abraham and had accepted only the murderer.


If it truly is "clearly bunk" you should be more than capable of showing where in scripture God annulled His everlasting land covenant with Israel.

I've only been asking you for 2 days now. Let's see the Biblical support for your claims.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

If it truly is "clearly bunk" you should be more than capable of showing where in scripture God annulled His everlasting land covenant with Israel.
There is a Most High God who Abraham did not see, who made a covenant that at some point his descendants would inherit all the land, including all the bits that he had been traveling around in. He said He would repeat the promise to the succeeding generations.
So many generations later, a self righteous murderer was out in the desolate wasteland and saw a god-like person who told him that he could bring about the fulfilment of the promise if he was up to doing a lot more murder.
The result of the union between the Messiah of death, and the god of death was a contract to kill all the inhabitants of the land by bloody murder, then just stealing the land.
Jesus came to break the contract and being of a god-like nature himself, to a higher status even of the killer god, his own sacrificial death was sufficient to nullify the Covenant of Death.
The original covenant by the Most High God still stands.
edit on 27-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

If it truly is "clearly bunk" you should be more than capable of showing where in scripture God annulled His everlasting land covenant with Israel.
There is a Most High God who Abraham did not see, who made a covenant that at some point his descendants would inherit all the land, including all the bits that he had been traveling around in. He said He would repeat the promise to the succeeding generations.
So many generations later, a self righteous murderer was out in the desolate wasteland and saw a god-like person who told him that he could bring about the fulfilment of the promise if he was up to doing a lot more murder.
The result of the union between the Messiah of death, and the god of death was a contract to kill all the inhabitants of the land by bloody murder, then just stealing the land.
Jesus came to break the contract and being of a god-like nature himself, to a higher status even of the killer god, his own sacrificial death was sufficient to nullify the Covenant of Death.
The original covenant by the Most High God still stands.
edit on 27-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Is asking and expecting you to provide scriptural support a lost cause? Am I wasting my time with that? Feels kinda like it.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Is asking and expecting you to provide scriptural support a lost cause? Am I wasting my time with that? Feels kinda like it.
If you are talking about a covenant other than the one made with Abraham, you are going to have to specify which one.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Is asking and expecting you to provide scriptural support a lost cause? Am I wasting my time with that? Feels kinda like it.
If you are talking about a covenant other than the one made with Abraham, you are going to have to specify which one.


Any scripture?? You have yet to show a single passage showing God annulled His everlasting covenant with the seed of Abraham. And this is despite me asking in more than one thread for more than 2 days.

Where is your scriptural support??



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Any scripture?? You have yet to show a single passage showing God annulled His everlasting covenant with the seed of Abraham. And this is despite me asking in more than one thread for more than 2 days.
The Covenant that Moses made was annulled.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Any scripture?? You have yet to show a single passage showing God annulled His everlasting covenant with the seed of Abraham. And this is despite me asking in more than one thread for more than 2 days.
The Covenant that Moses made was annulled.


Again, what does that have anything to do with the Abrahamic land covenant that God said was an "everlasting" covenant between Him and Abraham as well as his seed after him?

I've seen one verse in 2 days from Hebrews that had absolutely nothing to do with the land covenant.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The everlasting covenant was made usable by Jesus bringing about everlasting life.
Apparently you do not accept Christianity and want to cling to Moses because he is the one who advocated taking the land by force.
So by rejecting Jesus and his covenant you will be judged by Moses.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical


Again, what does that have anything to do with the Abrahamic land covenant that God said was an "everlasting" covenant between Him and Abraham as well as his seed after him?

I've seen one verse in 2 days from Hebrews that had absolutely nothing to do with the land covenant.



GAL 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

GAL 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

It was previously mentioned that Hagar's son didn't count, being natural born. The child of promise is the one who counts. Paul does a switch a roo here. The Sinai Covenanters are the natural born slaves.


GAL 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatian Christians including Gentiles.


Gal3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

You should be aware that all those Yahweh promises and curses of the Old Death Covenant had all come to an end by AD70. Any return promises made by Yahweh the angel of death, giver of the covenant of death were fulfilled with the return under Cyrus the Persian (see Ezra and Nehemiah).

Once the promised seed "Jesus" came all the promises made to Abraham by his God transferred to Jesus. Access to the older Abrahamic promise is through faith in Jesus. This is the definition of Christianity.

I am aware that Dispensationalists consider the church age as merely a parenthesis between one Sinai Death Covenant period and a new Sinai Death Covenant Period. Therefore of secondary importance or glory. I'm quite certain that the apostle Paul would kick your ass quite severely if he heard you say that.



2CO 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The Old Death Covenant was fading in the days of Paul. It was extinguished completely by AD70.

Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. Doesn't Elijah mean something like God over Jahweh?
Yahweh is a creature of limited authority. His authority ended with Elijah's coming. The Old Covenant is dead, along with its dubious promises.

Here's the everlasting land covenant:


RO 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

Heir of the world! That beats the heck out of "that piece of land you acquire through genocide and ethnic cleansing" as promised through the Old Death and Destruction Covenant!

edit on 27-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)

Just some more bonus verses:


14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

RO 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

edit on 27-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The everlasting covenant was made usable by Jesus bringing about everlasting life.


Completely twisting of scripture. What was 'everlasting in Genesis 17:7-8 was the faithfulness of Him to His covenant. His covenant with Abraham for the land is irrevocable and everlasting.


Apparently you do not accept Christianity and want to cling to Moses because he is the one who advocated taking the land by force.


For one thing, Moses was called and led by God to bring the Jews to the promised land. Secondly, Moses never set foot in the land, he wasn't permitted to for what he did in the wilderness the second time he struck the rock. Lastly, Christ's covenant He instilled at the last supper is the covenant of grace. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Abrahamic land covenant. Which is what we are discussing here.


So by rejecting Jesus and his covenant you will be judged by Moses.


You're comparing apples to catfish. No one has rejected the Lord Jesus. Nor has anyone rejected His covenant of grace. The covenant with Abraham for the land, and the covenant with Moses are not the same thing. Neither is Christ's covenant with His bride. Have you ever read anyone here rejecting the person and work of Jesus our Lord? That's slander.



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

For one thing, Moses was called and led by God to bring the Jews to the promised land.
Those were the Hebrews who became known as the Israelites.
I think you are trying the cloud the issue by putting ancient history into terms that fit your view of the current situation and to ignore the fact that there were eleven tribes besides Judah.



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 


I appreciate you sharing actual Bible verses. I really do. Then we can base the discussion on God's word. The covenant with Abraham as amplified in the new covenant. The "promise" that we partake of being his sons and daughters through faith is the promise of blessing and redemption through Christ. This promise to Abraham is in Genesis 12:3 (Blessing), and the actual promise for redemption came in Genesis 3:15 (promise of redemption):


"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

"Thy seed" when God was speaking to Eve is a medical contradiction. The seed is from the man. The "seed" God speaks of here is the Messiah. The seed singular and specific. Not "seeds", but one particular seed. The "woman" spoken of here is not Eve, it's the nation of Israel as stated in Revelation as the woman who is pregnant. The woman in Revelation isn't the church. She is "pregnant" with the man-child. (Messiah) The woman can't be the church because the bride of Christ is a virgin bride, the woman in Revelation is pregnant.

The land covenant is with the area of land, it's everlasting, that covenant was in Genesis 17:7-8 and the land area was defined in Genesis 15:18-21. And as already linked, the Word records Israel being regathered and set back in the land with Jerusalem as it's capital. The exodus from the north was far greater than the exodus from Egypt. And it was accurate to the day May 14, 1948.
edit on 28-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

For one thing, Moses was called and led by God to bring the Jews to the promised land.
Those were the Hebrews who became known as the Israelites.
I think you are trying the cloud the issue by putting ancient history into terms that fit your view of the current situation and to ignore the fact that there were eleven tribes besides Judah.


The words are used interchangeably by both Nehemiah and Ezra after the Babylonian captivity. Peter uses both to address people in Acts. Jews, Israelities are synonyms. It's already been show here that the "10 lost tribes" myth is just that, a myth.



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The words are used interchangeably by both Nehemiah and Ezra after the Babylonian captivity. Peter uses both to address people in Acts. Jews, Israelities are synonyms. It's already been show here that the "10 lost tribes" myth is just that, a myth.
All you did was post some links, you never presented anything or proved anything here.
I don't accept links as a substitute for an argument.
Hebrews and Israelites are not synonymous, and especially not so when it comes to the Exodus. If you believe that they are synonymous then you would have to demonstrate that it is, not just say it is.
edit on 28-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical


I appreciate you sharing actual Bible verses. I really do.

And you show your appreciation by stepping over them and ignoring them? Is that what passes for appreciation these days?

I hesitate to ask you anything else. That would only give you opportunity to continue to ignore those verses.


"Thy seed" when God was speaking to Eve is a medical contradiction.

I took a biology class once. It seemed to me that seeds were egg cells.


The woman can't be the church because the bride of Christ is a virgin bride, the woman in Revelation is pregnant.

I thought Christians believed in virgin birth.


Word records Israel being regathered and set back in the land with Jerusalem as it's capital. The exodus from the north was far greater than the exodus from Egypt. And it was accurate to the day May 14, 1948.

What the ...? It was fulfilled on the 24th day of the 9th month of the 2nd year of Darius. (Haggai 2:10) That was aprox 522 BC. What's this 1948 nonsense?

But really. Go back and read the verses from my last post. I'd much rather you did that.



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