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Everlasting Land Covenant With Abraham, Was There, and Is There Now?

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posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That was several fulfilled prophecies as well. That God would regather all the children on Israel from the countries He had scattered them.
That was not fulfilled, since it seems only the one tribe was represented, Judah, unless you count the Kohanim as representing the Levites.
I believe it would necessitate an act of God to sort out who the other ten tribes are.
Such an act of God has not taken place.




posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Yeah i can see what you mean because i have ancestors that were jews, LONG ago but converted to christianity. I dunno if being a jew is something that it passed down in the family line or if it's just a chosen way of life like being a christian. I don't think of myself as being a jew even though i had jewish ancestors a few hundred years ago.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
That's the thing because there were all kinds of what we would call today pagan religions that existed before and there were various pushes to get everyone who could be threatened, to join one camp or the other, just for survival purposes, so you can't tell that long ago, your ancient ancestors did not convert to Judaism because of one reason or another.
I find the idea of being able to trace bloodlines back to the person, Israel, is ridiculous and a reason for a lot of the denunciation of that sort of mentality even back when the NT was written.

edit on 26-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

There is also a prophetic OT utterance that detailed that the nation would be born in a single day. All fulfilled.
Let's have a look at that day.

on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared Israel a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine.
Israel
To see who This person was, Ben-Gurion was, lets look at who he represented.

The Zionist Organization founded in 1897 at Basel, Switzerland, served as an umbrella organization for the Zionist movement, whose objective was the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine - at that time under the Ottoman Empire.
Zionist Organization
And the Jewish Agency for Israel

In 1929, the Jewish Agency for Palestine was officially created by the 16th Zionist Congress, held in Zurich.
Jewish Agency
So Israel actually was born over a 51 year period. There was no nation of Israel on 14 May 1948, just party members who made an announcement, then Zionist puppets in the Truman administration who recognized the Zionist claim.
edit on 26-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

God didn't consider Ishmael the son of Abraham because he was not a son of faith, but a son of the flesh.
So why not apply the same principle today, and acknowledge that the only true believers in God are who accept Jesus and that through that faith are the only true sons of the promise?



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That was several fulfilled prophecies as well. That God would regather all the children on Israel from the countries He had scattered them.
That was not fulfilled, since it seems only the one tribe was represented, Judah, unless you count the Kohanim as representing the Levites.
I believe it would necessitate an act of God to sort out who the other ten tribes are.
Such an act of God has not taken place.


Yes it was, lol. More Jews came out from the countries north of Israel than those who made the Exodus from Egypt. Precisesly the area named when God would regather His people the Jews, "the north".

Are we ever going to see the Biblical support for your claims that God annulled His everlasting land covenant? Ever?



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I don't see a single scripture in your post. Heretics are easily shown to be ones by the Word of God. Where is your Biblical support?
I have a verse in the OP which is fundamental to Christianity which explains the very existence of Christianity.
It seems any Bible verse which does not support your party's position is like water on a duck's back.
According to you, for 1800 years, Christianity was entirely populated by heretics since dispensationalism was only a modern invention.

The verse in the OP has nothing to do with the land covenant. God said the land covenant was everlasting. The Hebrew for that word is "eternal, forever". Where are your scriptures that show the land covenant was annulled by God?
*waiting*
The land covenant? Let's look at what comes up in a word search with the Biblos web site, using "land covenant" for the search terms.
Exodus 6 comes up and the Lord tell Moses to tell the people in Egypt that he would confirm the covenent with them, that had been renewed previously by oath with the Patriarchs of Israel. That they would be able to own the land that the fathers had only lived in.
This person tells Moses an interesting thing, that the fathers did not know him as the Lord, but as the most high God. So while the supposed inheritors of the promise were followers of the Most High God, they never actually had the promise fulfilled. This The Lord, said he would fulfill what had previously only been a promise.
The Lord takes the people up out of Egypt but only with a very heavy cost of Egyptian lives.
The Lord, in Exodus 34, tells Israel that he will now start to fulfill the promise, only after taking a new covenent, which has every condition of the first giving of the Sinai Law, but with even more added on, which pertained to what they would do while in the land they were being given.
So though there was an unconditional promise given, it was really just a promise to give the same promise to each succeeding generation, without any definite timetable for when the final fulfilment would take place.
If the people wanted the promise to be fulfilled in their own time, they had to go to a second god who would see it done, but with what amounted to infinite conditions.
edit on 26-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That was several fulfilled prophecies as well. That God would regather all the children on Israel from the countries He had scattered them.
That was not fulfilled, since it seems only the one tribe was represented, Judah, unless you count the Kohanim as representing the Levites.
I believe it would necessitate an act of God to sort out who the other ten tribes are.
Such an act of God has not taken place.


Yes it was, lol. More Jews came out from the countries north of Israel than those who made the Exodus from Egypt. Precisesly the area named when God would regather His people the Jews, "the north".

Are we ever going to see the Biblical support for your claims that God annulled His everlasting land covenant? Ever?
You were claiming scattered Israel returned when it was only scattered practitioners of the religion of the Jews, with maybe some Sephardic Jews from North Africa, who were actually of a blood lineage of the tribe of Judah. The main group of blood descendants are in Muslim countries like Iran and they refuse to budge from their current homes.
I think I just solved the problem in my last post, that the original unconditional covenent is not of any concern because it does not need to be fulfilled now. There was no provision in the original covenant for a specific time for fulfilment. That is what would have been augmented by the New Covenant brought about by Jesus the Christ.(the key feature being immortality through eternal life, where time becomes rather irrelevant)
The other land covenant was brought about through the agency of Moses and a subordinate god-like figure called The Lord. That covenant was conditional and amounted to a lot of laws which carried the death penalty for the violation of them. That covenant was the one that brought about a temporary fulfilment of the more permanent but in-the-future covenant. It is the one that was the Old Covenant that was replaced by the New Covenant. The old Covenant was the one that provided a killing of the inhabitants of the land, before the ones who were to take possession of it. So that was the old covenant of death that was talked about in the NT.
edit on 26-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Verses, get to showing me scripture. Get in the Word and easily show that I'm wrong. The area and dimensions of the land covenant are given. And the Lord is NOT slack concerning His promises. This talk of "ten lost tribes" is absurd.



Try a new thing this time JM. Watch something, then comment about what the person actually says instead of an ad hominem attack on the man's finances. Try that for a change.

Also, still hours later ready for you to present these verses that claim God annulled His everlasting covenant. Basically making Him a liar, attacking the nearest thing to God's heart. It's proclaimed in Psalm 138:2 that He "magnifies His Word above all His name".




edit on 27-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God."


Leviticus 26:44



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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You also have the remarkable prophecy fulfilled to the very day Israel would again become a nation. Written thousands of years before May 14, 1948. You're as wrong as you can be on the nation of Israel, her right to the land through the Abrahamic land covenant of Genesis 17, and the near return of the Messiah Jesus Christ to gather His church, then focus on the Jews until they accept their Messiah during the Great Tribulation. Repent JM, the sheep in goats judgement is primarily about how countries and individuals treated the Jews and the nation of Israel.



Remarkable Prophecy ~ May, 14, 1948



Read this JM.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
He doesn't seem like a smart person to have created the thing he is talking about.
He probably gets handed his agenda and talking points and scripts to read.
I listened to at least ten seconds of it and could see where he was going with it.
The message is. "Don't make me look at reality because I like my dream."



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Also, still hours later ready for you to present these verses that claim God annulled His everlasting covenant. Basically making Him a liar, attacking the nearest thing to God's heart. It's proclaimed in Psalm 138:2 that He "magnifies His Word above all His name".
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself before you get it.
You are taught by your cult to offer up red herrings.
The covenant made by The Most High God to Abraham has no expiration date, and no time specified as when it will be fulfilled or explanation of how it will come about.
The covenent of death made by the destroying angel of Sinai was done away with by the sacrifice of Jesus.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Also, still hours later ready for you to present these verses that claim God annulled His everlasting covenant. Basically making Him a liar, attacking the nearest thing to God's heart. It's proclaimed in Psalm 138:2 that He "magnifies His Word above all His name".
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself before you get it.
You are taught by your cult to offer up red herrings.
The covenant made by The Most High God to Abraham has no expiration date, and no time specified as when it will be fulfilled or explanation of how it will come about.
The covenent of death made by the destroying angel of Sinai was done away with by the sacrifice of Jesus.



100% false, read the previous link provided.

You're wrong.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
He doesn't seem like a smart person to have created the thing he is talking about.
He probably gets handed his agenda and talking points and scripts to read.
I listened to at least ten seconds of it and could see where he was going with it.
The message is. "Don't make me look at reality because I like my dream."



He one of the best Bible teachers in existence. He's been teaching it for 50 years. His resume compared to you is ridiculous. And I'm going to point out that you provided zero of his arguments/statements and shown them to be wrong. And did exactly what I said you'd do... resort to ad hominem fallacies.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You also have the remarkable prophecy fulfilled to the very day Israel would again become a nation. Written thousands of years before May 14, 1948. You're as wrong as you can be on the nation of Israel, her right to the land through the Abrahamic land covenant of Genesis 17, and the near return of the Messiah Jesus Christ to gather His church, then focus on the Jews until they accept their Messiah during the Great Tribulation. Repent JM, the sheep in goats judgement is primarily about how countries and individuals treated the Jews and the nation of Israel.
If you have some sort of evidence to back up any of these claims, then go ahead and present it.
What does "focus on the Jews" mean.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

100% false, read the previous link provided.

You're wrong.
The link to the page on some sort of date calculation?
Completely wrong interpretation.
Looks like someone doing whatever they had to do to arrive at a predetermined date.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

He one of the best Bible teachers in existence. He's been teaching it for 50 years. His resume compared to you is ridiculous. And I'm going to point out that you provided zero of his arguments/statements and shown them to be wrong. And did exactly what I said you'd do... resort to ad hominem fallacies.
If he is so good, then you should understand it.
How about you presenting the points because I can't watch the video.
He's just saying, "Don't get technical on me."
I had a girlfriend like that. She would say, "So what's the difference?"
I would say, "One is the truth and one is a lie."
She would be like, "And . . ?"



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
This is the way I understood it (as in the OP) and I did not grow up in a church infected with the Darby/Scolfield heresy.
The first I heard of any of this (the Land of God philosophy) was when the book, Late Great Planet Earth came out. I read it and decided it was b* cover to cover including all of its salvation theology.
I should investigate this a bit and if anyone has any ideas on the subject, please contribute.


JM,
I know that you may not like this theology, But it is very well known and taught.
Biblicaly speaking there is no proof that GOD nullified it. Which is the problem you are
running into. The way the new covenant is taught is that because of Jesus we became step
children unto GOD. [I am not going to look up the verse now but its in NT]

LOTZA LUV & I am out, we all know when you two start just to stay clear



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You can convert. But its actually a bloodline passed down from mother to child.
So if you're mother is not in messianic law you are not. My paternal grandmother was
and had no daughter's. There for I am not legaly.

LOTZA LUV



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