Kerry files suit to stop Swift Boat Ads

I find it ironic that people immediatly jump to the conclusion of slander without evidence refuting ALL of the SBVT allegations. a great number of their points are based on Kerrys own words, books and deeds as is the most recent SBVT ad.

Having read the SBVT book and made comparisons with recent media accounts by outlets such as the "Boston Globe" Brinkleys book on Kerrys service, accounts from Kerrys own diary as detailed on internet sources, congressional testimony by Kerry and FBI records I have come to the conclusion that Kerry is living a delusional lie and believes his own falsehoods or he is a war criminal come traitor to his country.

I think supporters of Kerry really need to do an objective job of researching their candidate to better inform themselves of just whom they are advocating for President, The defeat Bush at all costs mentality that pervades the democrat party today has severely clouded judgement imho. The cost may be more than they are willing to pay in the end.

This Kerry campaign run on SWBT funding (non-issue) or campaign connections (unprovable) is a gigantic red herring strawman argument designed to misdirect people from taking a hard look at Kerrys past action which Kerry himself made the centerpiece of his campaign.

The real issue is the inability of his campaign to refute Kerrys own damning words come back to haunt him. Those that imply its just a 35 year old gaffe by Kerry are absolutly wrong because much of the data and comments of record proving Kerry cannot tell the truth are of much more recent vintage.

I challenge people to go go do some research but I promise you will not find the truth at the water-carrying NYT or LAT and their ilk, go compare senate testimony, records and FBI documentation compared to what is being put forth by Kerrys campaign now.

As a footnote, all should read the 14th amendment to the U.S. constituition once you have objectively studied the factual data available.

An example of Kerrys known lies well after his service time is this passage from the congressional record; S 3594 dated March 27, 1986, found on Instapundit.

For a larger Image go to, Instapundit

1. Kerry campaign aknowedges he was NOT in Cambodia as he said.
2. Nixon was not yet president at the time of the supposed event.
3. The Khmer Rouge did not exist at the time of the supposed event.



[edit on 21-8-2004 by Phoenix]

The same people that is behind the swift boat ads is the same people from bush campaign that used the same tactics during bush first went for governor in Texas it was dirty.

But the link to it did not come out until after bush campaign for president.

But what they wanted to do is already done they have him all over the news.

I mentioned this before, and here is an article proving it. The veterans are not so much concerned with what Kerry did during the war, it's what he did afterwards.

from the Washington Post
William Ferris was confined to a bed in a military hospital, his severed sciatic nerve reminding him of the attack on his Navy Swift boat in a Vietnamese river. A shot from a recoilless rifle had pierced the boat's pilothouse and then Ferris's body, leaving him in constant agony.

But it was what appeared on Ferris's television that really pained him. John F. Kerry, a decorated fellow Swift boat driver, was testifying before Congress about atrocities in Vietnam, throwing his medals away, speaking at antiwar rallies. Ferris, who was trying to rehabilitate himself back to active duty, felt betrayed.

"I was livid," Ferris, 57, of Long Island, N.Y., said yesterday, recalling how his dislike for the presidential candidate began in the early 1970s. "I said to myself at the time, this is someone who is using his experience for his own purposes, and this was long before he ever ran for office. I thought he was using, actually manipulating, what he had done in Vietnam. Just like he's doing now."

Washington Post Article

Wow. This gives me more reason to dislike Kerry.

Look at all the negative things written about Bush. Farenheit 9/11, Anti-Bush songbook, etc..

Has Bush said one thing about any of this? Nope. He just sits back. But ONE book about kerry is written, and kerry goes hogwild. Whats this? Is he denying the freedom of speech? Not a quality I would like to have in a president.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
I mentioned this before, and here is an article proving it. The veterans are not so much concerned with what Kerry did during the war, it's what he did afterwards.

Washington Post Article

This is no revelation, anybody who has actually bothered to read the SBVT book and knows that nearly 1/3 of it is devoted to Kerrys after war activities - THIS IS NOT a new tack or direction For SBVT

The WAPO article is just trying to spin this as a way to misdirect the debate.

Why somebody will feel outraged about talking of the horrors of war, my father is a veteran and he talks about it.

Wars are not pretty and what happened during a war should not be kept quiet like some kind of dirty secret that every body nows about but nobody wants to talk aobut it.

It�s ok for the ones that never have been in war (bush) to push a war on others, because they have never been in one.

And then they come with comments that is ok for people to die and that casualties of war are ok, how do they know they have never been there and they have never seen somebody die next to them or blown to pieces, or they have never open fired in a frenzied without knowing if the people they are shooting at is friendly or enemy, this are the worlds of my father when he talks about war.

Kerry had the guts to talk about the evils of war and the atrocities commitedin the name of war and now that is the only way to get back at him.

Well what a shame, but that�s ok because history is repeating and now we got atrocities in Iraq, and this administration together with the poppet administration in Iraq is trying to keep all the dirty news away from the public when the banned the news media out of the conflicts area.

Ask yourselves who can you trust and who is dishonest one.

Hey..........
If Kerry wants to refute the Swiftboat vet charges, then let him do a 180!

Senator Kerry Can Address the Substance of the Swift Vet Charges With a Form 180

Dear Senator Kerry:

Please sign the Pentagon's Standard Form 180 immediately if you are truly interested in refuting the Swift Boat Vet's charges.

If you are in fact telling the truth about your service in Vietnam, you can simply fill out a Form 180 and assure that your military records are fully public. Total transparency would help voters decide if you should become commander in chief.

You could vindicate yourself, and refute the charges of the Swift Boat Veterans, by releasing the rest of your record. If the accounts of events in your complete record refute the Swiftees charges, that would work to your advantage.

Please be brave and show America that you have nothing to hide -- sign the Pentagon's Standard Form 180 and get your side of the story out today!

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXX

Here's Kerry's opportunity to refute the Swiftboat vets



seekerof

[edit on 21-8-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Phoenix
1. Kerry campaign aknowedges he was NOT in Cambodia as he said.
2. Nixon was not yet president at the time of the supposed event.
3. The Khmer Rouge did not exist at the time of the supposed event.

Its a funny thing Phoenix, The Kerry supporters seem all in favor of shutting down the Swift Boat Guys before they have even taken a close look at what they are saying. It seems thier concept of free speech is fine and dandy as long as they approve of the message. A group raises legitamate questions about an area that Kerry is promoting heavily adn the first reaction is to try to shut them down. They are ignoring the admission that he had lied about being in Cambodia and blindly accept the fact that he is telling the truth on the rest. And have they refuted the main charges that the Swift Boat Vets have made? No, they have tried to muzzle and SLAP sue to try to keep them quiet. As out governor said "where there is smoke there is fire"

Seems that FREE SPEECH was fine and dandy for the Democrats when it was THEY that was doing the mud-slinging thru the likes of MOVEON.ORG, eh............

Momma always said that if you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen.....


seekerof

As an answer to those that have said the democratic party has not coordinated with Moveon.org including I believe the Kerry compaign - here's proof that shows coordination to be a FACT,

Raise Your Democratic Voice! President Bush has ordered his most loyal and partisan supporters to contact their Senators and Representatives in Congress to pressure them to pass his irresponsible tax giveaway.

It's time to fight back.

The Democratic Party is partnering with MoveOn.org, People for the American Way, Campaign for America's Future, and dozens of other groups representing millions of Americans to organize a massive public mobilization. On Wednesday, May 14, join us by calling and emailing your representatives in Congress to let them know that the majority of Americans oppose more irresponsible tax cuts that go overwhelmingly to the wealthiest sliver of Americans.

www.democrats.org...


This information is from one of their own websites in their own words - classic.

Founded in 2001 under the leadership of Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, and led by National Chair Ann Lewis, the DNC Women's Vote Center is dedicated to educating, engaging, and mobilizing women voters across the nation to help elect more Democrats to office at all levels of government.

Kerry Announces Candidacy for President on Sept 2nd, 2003 - making 527 coordination illegal to do after that date according to new election law.

Theresa Heinz who it cannot be denied has a major role in the Kerry campaign illegally (imho) attends a Moveon.org meeting on December 7, 2003

The East Bay for Kerry/MoveOn House party on December 7th combined the forces of two grass-roots organizations based in San Francisco East Bay Area. We had 200 guests eating, drinking, and watching the MoveOn Documentary �Uncovered� featuring Joseph Wilson and Rand Beers from the Kerry campaign.

Official Kerry/Edwards Blog

If anyone can find actual ties such as these demonstrated between Moveon.org and the Democrats about the SBVT then I'd like to see em.
So far all I've seen is inuendo due to personal relationships, political beliefs and a very suspect memo from Florida that had SBVT as a subject for discussion - not a sponsor of said meeting.



[edit on 21-8-2004 by Phoenix]

Originally posted by Phoenix

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
I mentioned this before, and here is an article proving it. The veterans are not so much concerned with what Kerry did during the war, it's what he did afterwards.

Washington Post Article

This is no revelation, anybody who has actually bothered to read the SBVT book and knows that nearly 1/3 of it is devoted to Kerrys after war activities - THIS IS NOT a new tack or direction For SBVT

The WAPO article is just trying to spin this as a way to misdirect the debate.

Phoenix, I think you may have misunderstood my motivation for posting this. It was to show that the swiftees weren't being directed by the Bush campaign, it was to point out the fact that vets don't like, and don't trust Kerry. That vets think he's a liar and is not fit to command a toy boat in a bathtub half full of water.

Originally posted by marg6043
Why somebody will feel outraged about talking of the horrors of war, my father is a veteran and he talks about it.

Well, Marg, some people talk about stressful situations, like war, I guess.

But all the people I knew who have been in various wars do NOT talk about it, AT ALL. My father, my uncle ( who was in the Battle of the Buldge) and various friends were mum on the subject. Some of the Viet vets I knew would not even go to the Viet-movies, such as Platoon

The Bush administration has never had an unkind word to say about Kerry's Vietnam service. Frankly, I don't think Bush would touch this with a ten foot pole.

Kerry is a fool to try to shut these guys up. The only reason he's upset is because his lies are finally coming home to roost. Sounds a little like Karma.

It's a sad day when Americans defend a traitor and support his candidacy for President.

Originally posted by RANT
Slandering is just sad LadyV. And DTOM you're right it could backfire on Kerry if he can't prove Bush is directing SwiftVets, but the assumption that Kerry is directing MoveOn or that Move On IN ANY WAY is as disreputable as SwiftVets I question.

For the record, I have no knowledge of Kerrys involvement with MoveOn.org. My point was if you get rid of one group, the other should go too.

John Kerry voted for the McCain-Feingold bill. He gets what he deserves. Does Kerry have a problem with free speech? If Bush took steps to silence Moveon.org, the lefty communist types would be yelling Free Speech, Free Speech. Kerry has ignored his record for the last 30 years and is running on his 4 months is Vietnam, let him defend it. But you know he has got to keep his lawyers busy, as he has over 5,000 lined up to try to steal the election, just like Gore tried to do.

[edit on 21-8-2004 by Carseller4]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
But all the people I knew who have been in various wars do NOT talk about it, AT ALL. My father, my uncle ( who was in the Battle of the Buldge) and various friends were mum on the subject. Some of the Viet vets I knew would not even go to the Viet-movies, such as Platoon

This is pretty much what I encountered as well. Although, some will talk about it, but most keep these things to themselves. It could have to also do with how much killing someone has done or seen done as well. I mean, many go to wars, there are also many that are on the back lines supporting everyone. Not everyone sees death up-close on a daily basis. Most of the people in here that talk about killing in a non-chalant way are Sofa Soldiers. They watch Platoon, Rambo, and other films like that and think it is like that. They have never seen someone in life get the life ripped out of them, or blown in parts by a grenade, pr get torn up by an AK47. The people that have usually want to keep those memories to themselves.

[edit on 21-8-2004 by JCMinJapan]

Kerry is pushing this pathetic attempt at censorship as a damage control operation.

THE FACTS: 23 officers served in the same group as Kerry. 2 of them have been thrown into the spotlight by Kerry's campaign as alleged "proof" of his meritous service. 4 of this group are now deceased. The other 17 didn't like him then, don't like him now, and are doing what they can to expose him for the lies he is perpetrating.

Kerry started this by airing the ads where the 2 former officers metaphorically said he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Did he not think that the rest of the group might have something to say in return? You can't just pull out the 2 best-looking out of the can of worms-once you pop the top, they all come out.

I've heard about enough about Kerry's self proclaimed "war hero" status, and about all of the medals he got for the scratch on his butt cheek.

Does no-one remember what he did after his return? Anyone care about his record over the last 20 years in the senate?

I can't help but feel that a large percentage of Kerry's voter base is either too young to remember his actions, or so blinded by the "anybody but Bush" mentality that they just don't care to know what he's done. Considering that they're trying to give the man de facto control of the free world, I'd think that having a bit more of an informed opinion would be a good thing before deciding to throw him into office.

It sounds to me like Kerry is actually trying to shut up this group because he has something to hide... otherwise, why wouldn't he just ignore them? If those people are lying, they'd be exposed without his involvement, and certainly not a court's involvement...

To compare & contrast, Bush isn't suing MoveOn.org for similar charges; he's just ignoring them... to do otherwise would only stoke the fire, after all.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
But all the people I knew who have been in various wars do NOT talk about it, AT ALL. My father, my uncle ( who was in the Battle of the Buldge) and various friends were mum on the subject. Some of the Viet vets I knew would not even go to the Viet-movies, such as Platoon

DTOM, what unit was your father in? My Grandfather was 101 Airborne and was at the Bulge.

Another thing I find amusing is that the same people who fervently believe that Kerry, after 4 months, is some kind of war hero, at the same time have to ignore the fact that Kerry claims to have burned villages and was in Cambodia when there were not supposed to be U.S. troops there. Or, maybe they realize that it'd be difficult for the ol' boy to be burning villages from his swift boat, or be in Cambodia, so they know these assertions are untrue. If, however, this be the case, they should also be able to figure out that Kerry is a liar, in which case he is no better than the president they love to demonize.

Speaking of that particular president, those who worship the democratic war hero that claims to be a commiter of war crimes, these same people claim that Bush is a coward because he ducked into the Texas Air National Guard. A problem with calling him a coward, though. Considering that nearly half of the pilots in Vietnam were Weekend Warriors, that'd be a very sypid place to try and lie doggo. Being that it was not Dubbya's fault that by the time he was finishing training ('72, I believe?) the need for pilots was drawing down, it's hard to reasonably blame him or call him a coward.

Anyway, regardless of any ad by the Swift Boat Vets, Kerry's numerous war claims sounds like stories Al Gore loaned him that they are far fetched, and it is interesting that Kerry looses the legal mutts in order to silence them. It is also more than suspicious that the "mainstream" media fails to make issues of Kerry's misstatements when they can't contain themselves when they smell a possible drop of Bush's blood in the water.

But hey, never mind these things, go on believing that Bush is evil and Kerry is a saint, let not any fact stand in the way.