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Kerry files suit to stop Swift Boat Ads

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posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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It was only a matter of time before this went to the next level. Kerry's group is filing suit against the Swift Boat Veterans for putting out ads that he says are full of lies. Additionally it seems he is willing to show proof they are tied to the Bush/Cheney campaign.
 



news.yahoo.com
In a statement released to reporters, Kerry's campaign announced it had "filed a legal complaint against Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT) before the Federal Election Commission (FEC) for violating the law with inaccurate ads that are illegally coordinated with the Bush-Cheney presidential campaign


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I think this is good. If Kerry is right he should be willing to back it up through legal channels. If he is wrong, he will have to take the fallout from this as well.



[edit on 8/20/2004 by nativeokie]

[edit on 8-20-2004 by Valhall]




posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:16 PM
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This is one thing I dont understand, It seems that when you are any regular everyday war Vet. then you are always thought of as being a patriotic memeber of society, and looked up apon in a way.... But as soon as you try to run for a political position, then they desided to see if you were a good Vet. or just some sort of "Dodger" or bad guy.

O.k I shouldn't say I dont understand, cause hey, thats politics... But it really is a sad state of afairs if this is what desides the Presidential election.

Wouldnt it be nice if the public had a voice to speak with to tell those 2 dorks running for president that most of us dont really care what the hell either of you DID along time ago(in their war days)... but instead tell us what you are going to do for the future, and right now...I wish I could stand up and say, "Shut up!!!! Both of you!!! Now, since your not bitching at each other, tell us what your plans are for health care.... and so on"

[edit on 8/20/04 by HumptyDumpty]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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Imho this is a HUGE mistake by Kerry. All he has to do to clear this up is fill out a form 180 fully releasing ALL of his military records.

All Kerry has accomplished in the past two days is to get the issue finally in the mainstream press, not all coverage is going to be like the slanted NYT article.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:23 PM
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The really big deal is if Kerry can prove Bush-Cheney 04 Inc (named in complaint) is indeed coordinating Swift Vet soft monies as well as ad strategy (meaning directing state runs and buys)...while Bush has run around the country for weeks now "denouncing all soft monies and calling for an end to these ads" then it's going to be a BLOODBATH.

BLOODBATH I tell you. Assuming of course the "left wing media"
doesn't roll over and play dead for Bush on this one too.

I seriously doubt Kerry would start these proceedings without a smoking gun as the Swift Vets have been helping him in the public opinion more than hurting him. This is about Bush IMO.

But I don't rule out a backfire at all. Bush is one tricky monkey.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Imho this is a HUGE mistake by Kerry. All he has to do to clear this up is fill out a form 180 fully releasing ALL of his military records.

All Kerry has accomplished in the past two days is to get the issue finally in the mainstream press, not all coverage is going to be like the slanted NYT article.


I see what you're saying Phoenix, but I really think this is about nailing Bush in a series of public lies about soft money.

Swift Vets? What Swift Vets?
Nobody cares what they say IMHO.

The strategy here is deeper than it may appear.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
The really big deal is if Kerry can prove Bush-Cheney 04 Inc (named in complaint) is indeed coordinating Swift Vet soft monies as well as ad strategy (meaning directing state runs and buys)...


Doubtful. lets say for a minute that Bush is controlling the strings of this group. No doubt the trail will follow a point and end. If he is a tricky monkey as you say, I t won't trace back to him. That being said, how is the Swift Boats group any different that the Dems soft money hit groups? Are you telling me the Kerry has no influence on say Moveon.org?



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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I have no idea in reality Fred T, but I know Bush hasn't filed any formal complaints that Kerry has any ties to soft money. We know that much. We also know Kerry has filed a complaint about Bush doing so.

Yes, Bush is tricky and will no doubt live to see another day...but I smell a smoking gun is all I'm saying.

Bush's tragic mistake in all this is not specifically denouncing Swift Vets as I've specifically heard Kerry somewhat do in efforts to distance himself from Moore and MoveOn etc. I'm talking mostly about Dem back and forth banter about "quit helping you morons..."


The thing about Negative ads from either side is ALL THEY DO is fire up your voter base. That's why they "work" historically. But this election is unlike ANY we've seen. The votes are all but in save a tiny UNDECIDED...that traditionally are turned off by negative ads.

Bush should have denouced Swift Vets Inc when he had the chance.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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The only reason that bush campaign is going after Kerrys record is because bush has none.

Isnt this very convenient?

What else can they go after beside Kerry records is nothing else they can dig, but is going to back fire on the republican side.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 06:26 PM
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Very interesting move. My guess is this is a slap suit to scare them into shutting up. It is almost irrelavant for Bush at the moment whether or not Bush has ties to them, the lawsuit does not seem to be going after Bush, it is going after these former Vets. (Note the difference?)

Also note the lawsuit focuses on the alleged illegal ties, not on whether or not they are lying. I find this interesting too, since it alleviates Kerry from addressing whether or not what they saying is right or wrong.

Bottom line - this is frightening at the federal level (though it is frequently used quite effectively at more local levels). Who will ever open their mouths again after this even if what you have to say is true? Unless you have a lot of money to waste defending yourself in court you aren't going to stick your neck out. Sad sad state of affairs. Freedom of Speech terrorism as far as I'm concerned.

I also find it pathetic on Kerry's part. Look, you run for office, you know it's a dirty game. These types of things go on (Bush is getting it from MoveOn). I am not referring to the alleged illegal ties to soft money, I am referring to the mud slinging. It comes with the territory. You defend your record if you can, you don't scare off your opponents with lawsuits in this game. I know a lot of people at lower levels in politics who took a lot more than this just to try and serve there own backyard - pathetic.

One more thought, if the issue really is soft money ties and you have proof, you go after the person you are running against via election law, etc. - not the little guys. This one just reeks to me.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The only reason that bush campaign is going after Kerrys record is because bush has none. Isnt this very convenient?


As I said before, Kerry used his war service as a cornerstone of his campaign to try to balance out the charges that he is soft on defence. Please see my post on Defence in the Campaign 2004 forum for more details on that. He opened the door to this level of scrutiny. No doubt he should have checked things out before he promoted falshoods. The fact that he lied about Cambodia raises questions on everything that he has said or reported he has done there.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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What matter most to me, is not what he did in Vietnam... It's what he did after.

When you come home and crap all over your fellow soldiers, you can't expect that 30 years latter they are just going to forget it. Seems to me like the swifties are getting to dump on Kerry now.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
The really big deal is if Kerry can prove Bush-Cheney 04 Inc (named in complaint) is indeed coordinating Swift Vet soft monies as well as ad strategy (meaning directing state runs and buys)...

And if Kerry is found to be wrong, I see a bloodbath, but one you won't be happy about.

I think Kerry is responsible for all this anti-Kerry-Vietnam stuff. He brought it all on when he talked up Vietnam during the convention. What he has done in the Senate is much more important than what he did for four months in Vietnam almost 40 years ago. Come on....what does he stand for

And when he does say something---it's like "I'm gonna reverse outsourcing". Like he even could if he wanted to.

If Kerry wants to end the Swiftees, then Moveon.org has to go away, too.

This election is turning into a farce, and both parties need a trip to the woodshed.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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Well, again, only reason Kerry's record is under the gun is because he has one. Can't go after Bush's record, he doesn't have one. Well, he has many records, police records that is. But can't go after those because they are locked up never to be seen by mortal man again. And people want Kerry to reveal all his files, yet don't say a damn thing about Bush. Bush won't even give you his freaking shoe size while Kerry has 20,000 pages released by the FBI. BTW, going after him for protesting the war is going after the other 85-90% of the poeple back then. Only a few supported it, like rich republicans who wouldn't lose anything in the war.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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That is all they can do for now, just go after his efforts against the war, something that it was not only him against but the whole entire nation was opposed to the Vietnam War.

It is very sad that memories become fuzzy with age and the young only can remember what the media feed them.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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These guys didn't spend a mere 4 months over there and leave after a miraculous 3 purple hearts and no hospital time, but served as many soldiers, the full tour. I doubt they will be shaiking in their boots over the fact that the liar's liars (the politician's lawyers) have been loosed to silence them.

Interesting how freedom of speech works, I think. These guys are trying to show the nation this wannabe king has no clothes and the wannabe king is trying to gag them. What a demonstration of constitutional knowledge and class, and a possible sign of more things to come. And some of you are concerned with Bush fighting a war on a real enemy?



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 07:35 AM
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Thomas Crowne, you said

you are concerned with Bush fighting a war on a real enemy?

What enemy, it seems to me that bin-ladden that is supposed to be the enemy with Al-queda has been forgotten after Iraq.

And since when Iraq is now the enemy of this Administration. We went from fighting terror that in my eyes is justify to fighting the wishes of the nation this administration invaded with false pretenses of liberation. Where is bin-ladden do you know? Because I dont think this administration has a clue either.

I will said not more.



[edit on 21-8-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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This back and forth child like silliness from both sides is ridiculous! If some one put out something damaging about me that could hurt my job status, I'd sue also....as would most people....the fact is simple....if you like Mr Bush, you'll vote for him, if you don't, you'll vote for the other party....all the bickering shows a shows nothing except the person's basic character, or lack there of....slandering is just sad!



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 08:52 AM
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Slandering is just sad LadyV. And DTOM you're right it could backfire on Kerry if he can't prove Bush is directing SwiftVets, but the assumption that Kerry is directing MoveOn or that Move On IN ANY WAY is as disreputable as SwiftVets I question.

I realize MoveOn was "discredited" in most people's minds early on for accepting internet "ad" submissions one of which compared Bush to Hitler, but that's not what I've seen from them on TV. And I know Kerry was opposed to the Hitler thing.

But since then I've seen three MoveOn ads. Testimony from Richard Clarke "in case you missed it" and Condi and Powell flip flopping on "Saddam containment" and a married couple discussing the domestic issues affecting their life of which "gay marriage" is not one of them. Where's the "slander"?

Seems to me MoveOn is presenting issues. Now, if they put Hunter S Thompson on TV saying "I snorted boat loads of coke with Bush when he was claiming to be in ANG" or Bush's childhood friends that say Georgie had a thing for torturing small animals with firecrackers...then I'd see a comparison. Slander it is. Or possibly ugly truths about the President.

But nobody's doing that. The "Bush Bashing" phenomenon does exist. People do it. Most Americans I imagine, minus the ones that submit letters written by Bush to the nations newspapers. But mainstream media and ad blitzes bashing Bush's character? Haven't seen that at all. But "Kerry Bashing"? Oh heck yes. Bush-Cheney 04 Inc exists to do it, as do SwiftVets.

When doesn't the RNC rest it's platform on "the character issue" (which is just a nice way of saying slanderous character assassignation). McCain was a traitor (ironically as per BushCo). Max Cleland was a traitor (what a joke). Clinton was a draft dodger (true enough, but now that talk is "off limits" as per the hypocrits), Gore went for the cushy press job...

Now we have a candidate that's EVERYTHING the GOP has demanded for the past 15 years and criticized others for not being, but it's not good enough. Enter SwiftVets via a mysterious wealthy Texan backer...

(Wait...
Springer?
j/k)

"It's about character...character...character..." Oh really? How come NOBODY in the GOP wants to talk about Georgie's past including GEORGE?

Seems good enough when he says "I made mistakes, let's move on". But he can't bring himself to denounce a pack of paid partisan character assassigns? HA.

For the record, swifties don't bother me. Transparent as a fart in the wind. As is the Bush "condemnation" of soft money ads (meaning MoveOn presenting ISSUES). So it's fine. Nothing new under the sun. Dems always have to work harder to win fairly. It's almost a badge of honor by now. Loved the Clinton interview on the Daily Show about this very subject matter. He quotes a "Republican friend" as saying "If we played fair you guys would win all the time."

Right I know. Clinton made it up. He's just a Dem liar.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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TextSlandering is just sad LadyV. And DTOM you're right it could backfire on Kerry if he can't prove Bush is directing SwiftVets, but the assumption that Kerry is directing MoveOn or that Move On IN ANY WAY is as disreputable as SwiftVets I question.


This political year and slandering in nothing new, it is part of the political game.

Now about SwiftVets group that is suppose to come from Texas, if Kerry wants to target something he should target the financial group links to them, they are from Texas and is not the first time that they come with a group against a democrat candidate these groups just change names. Find the root and cut kill the tree.

But Kerry is wasting time trying to defend his record so much that he is forgetting to find the link between these slandering groups and Bush.



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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Kerry will win. The Dallas Morning News, Tuesday, August 10, did a research peice on the validity of the swift boat ads and found so many holes in that group's accusations that not one would hold water. As a matter of fact the vets bringing charges against Kerry were not even with in five miles of him during his combat tour. But they are receiving financial aid from certain friends of the G.Brish Crime Family.



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