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Kerry files suit to stop Swift Boat Ads

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posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 06:57 AM
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I still don't see why this is even a relevent issue in terms of the presidential election as it has nothing to do with policy. I know John Kerry totes around his service in Vietnam as a plus, but who really thinks that being a commander of a swiftboat for around 4 months in Vietnam makes him that much more qualified then Bush, whose military service also remains cloudy at best. I know that character assualts are apart of politics but in the case of shady military service I don't see how Republicans can really benifit since people really dont seem to concerned with Bush's situation either, service in the military just doesn't seem to mean what it used to IMO

Be that as it may, I believe John Kerry has the right to defend his character through any legal means that are available if he wishes. I also dont think Bush is as dumb as some of the left wingers claim and it probably won't be traced to his administration either so I see this is just filler 'till October rolls around.




posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 07:28 AM
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His military service is not relevant. Its the fact that he may have systematicaly engaged ina series of lies for political gain and now is in panic mode trying to do damage controll



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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You can see Kerry's new ad featuring JOHN McCAIN talking about GW BUSH OLD DIRTY TRICKS (as well as sign the petition to stop the character assassignation) here: www.johnkerry.com...

What exactly does George Bush have against Vietnam Veterans anyway?


Like I kept saying...Bush had his chance to denouce Swifties. He was asked nicely. He was reasoned with. Now Kerry says...



In the new ad video, it is McCain making Bush look like a total tool here...and the fact this is before the McCain/Bush RNC unity sham should not be lost on ATS strategists.


This is not your father's Massachusetts Liberal people. Nor hardly a "panicked response."
If anything, I'd say Kerry suckered Bush right where he wants him, drawing out the enemy fire like any good Swift Boat Captain would. Then turning his boat straight into the attack and crushing the enemy by virtue of his own assult. Ah, the genius of a seasoned Commander. And THANK YOU JOHN McCAIN for calling 'em like you see 'em.



[edit on 22-8-2004 by RANT]



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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Rant I guess it depends on your political slant as to how each side is viewing things. I see a candidate caught in if not a lie, an embelishment of the truth, desp. trying to aviod answering the questions. Instead of answering, he is trying to make this into a "dirty tricks" issues. Its the ultimate Strawman argument. He slaps a suit on the group that dare contradict his version of events and yet remains silent about the Dems version of the Swift boat group, Moveon.org. Freedom of speech as long as I agree with it seems to be the motto of the Kerry Campaign.

This suit and Kerrys panicky response smells of Michael Dukakis in the tank........



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by RANT


What exactly does George Bush have against Veterans?


George Bush is on record praising all veterans service and in particular he praised John Kerrys service.

George Bush's campaign called for ending 527 ads months ago, The Kerry campaign choose not to do so when the $67,000,000 or so worth of attack ads were in his favor. Now when a paltry $2,500,000 is spent by 527's that disparage Kerry, he calls for condemnation? seems self serving to me.

John Kerry choose to use his four months of Vietnam service (after condeming that very service and veterans for years) as a centerpiece of his campaign.

The SBVT has clearly said this battle is not George Bush's business, it is a personal matter of honor for them. SBVT has said even if Bush called them himself they still would run their ads.


[edit on 22-8-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Rant I guess it depends on your political slant as to how each side is viewing things.


Completely correct. And that's why I, you or Phoenix or 87% of voters already decided don't really play at all here. I'm trying to have some detachment here for what the "average" voter will see and decide upon (since they do no research and harldy think about it). And they don't know what's a 527 or who authorized what or who "technically" denounced this or that.

They know "Kerry is a war criminal" versus "Bush should be ashamed of himself". And sadly, that's pretty much the state of the "issue" debate right now in the mainstream public's eye.

I think Kerry is winning that debate. For good or bad, or what it's worth... That's what I see regarding the undecideds. My own perma-red state is now in jeopardy for a battleground! It's unprecedented. But it's happening.

story.news.yahoo.com.../ap/fighting_for_nc

[edit on 22-8-2004 by RANT]



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by RANT

Completely correct. And that's why I, you or Phoenix or 87% of voters already decided don't really play at all here. I'm trying to have some detachment here for what the "average" voter will see and decide upon (since they do no research and harldy think about it). And they don't know what's a 527 or who authorized what or who "technically" denounced this or that.

They know "Kerry is a war criminal" versus "Bush should be ashamed of himself". And sadly, that's pretty much the state of the "issue" debate right now in the mainstream public's eye.

I think Kerry is winning that debate. For good or bad, or what it's worth... That's what I see regarding the undecideds. My own perma-red state is now in jeopardy for a battleground! It's unprecedented. But it's happening.



RANT I do recognize your "detachment" and appreciate the debate that allows, Kudo's for that.

Yes undecided's are the target group for both Moveon.org and SBVT (basically all 527's), both groups specifically say they are against the opposing candidate and are doing as much as they can to sway the voters.

The current rub seems to be that a rather small and relatively underfunded (as compared to democratic 527's) group (SBVT) has hit Kerry's veteran polling numbers and threatens to spill over into the non-veteran polling numbers.

Until these poll numbers changed the Kerry campaign had winked at 527 activitie's because it was mostly helping poll numbers. Setting aside the issue raised by the SBVT, Do you not find this to be a double standard by the Kerry campaign.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
The current rub seems to be that a rather small and relatively underfunded (as compared to democratic 527's) group (SBVT) has hit Kerry's veteran polling numbers and threatens to spill over into the non-veteran polling numbers.

Until these poll numbers changed the Kerry campaign had winked at 527 activitie's because it was mostly helping poll numbers. Setting aside the issue raised by the SBVT, Do you not find this to be a double standard by the Kerry campaign.


Yeah, I just saw the Veteran's poll change. Swifties took 9 points from Kerry. That's pretty impressive.
I don't think that's affected the overall poll numbers yet, as Swifties may be sending others towards Kerry... but it is interesting what's working on who.

Double standard? Is Kerry a politician?
I mean both sides strategize and do what they have to do given the circumstances. Both sides get a huge kick out of 527's no doubt. I just saw Bush answering the FEC charge he's behind Swifties with a statement that it's patently Kerry misdirection....as one of his high ranking staffers resigned for being in a Swift Vets ad.
(Sorry I didn't catch his name, but it's in the news. Some Colonel)

It's all a game though. I enjoy it every four years. Better than the Olympics.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
DTOM, what unit was your father in? My Grandfather was 101 Airborne and was at the Bulge.

That was my uncle, Fred.
Unfortunately, all relatives involved are now dead.

My sister tried to get copies of my father's military records, and was told they had burnt in a fire

That fire excuse seems to be a real common problem with old records



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by RANT

Double standard? Is Kerry a politician?
I mean both sides strategize and do what they have to do given the circumstances. Both sides get a huge kick out of 527's no doubt. I just saw Bush answering the FEC charge he's behind Swifties with a statement that it's patently Kerry misdirection....as one of his high ranking staffers resigned for being in a Swift Vets ad.
(Sorry I didn't catch his name, but it's in the news. Some Colonel)

It's all a game though. I enjoy it every four years. Better than the Olympics.


Yep it is much more entertaining than the Olympics, Ken Cordier is the name of the volunteer a former Vietnam War POW. I don't think he was high ranking though.

At the same time Kerry refuses to fire Zach Exley, a key campaign staffer who served as the organizing director for MoveOn.org.

Double standards abound with the democrats.

I know newsmax is not a favorite of yours but it does juxtapose the story of both Cordier and Exley who are both mentioned in seperate media stories elsewhere.

www.newsmax.com...



[edit on 22-8-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Both groups are using their 527's contrary to the very purpose they were set up for.

A 527 is defined as follows:


Political Committees formed for the purpose of influencing elections but not supporting or opposing specific candidates.


527's should only be used to address the issues of a campaign, not a candidate.

527 Organizations are just Party Puppets!



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
527's should only be used to address the issues of a campaign, not a candidate.


But in a way they are. The SBVT are addressing Kerry's misrepresentation of his war record. Im not making a comment on thier message, but the fact that he may not have told the truth about his war record.

IMHO, this is a campaign issue.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
527's should only be used to address the issues of a campaign, not a candidate.


But in a way they are. The SBVT are addressing Kerry's misrepresentation of his war record. Im not making a comment on thier message, but the fact that he may not have told the truth about his war record.

IMHO, this is a campaign issue.

I personally feel that Kerry is a lying piece of .... but his inability to tell the truth isn't really a campaign issue. Securing the homeland, cutting spending, providing seniors with affordable health care are more like the campaign issues 527's should address. They should not be involved in promoting, or denegrating either candidate.

However both parties are using their respective 527's to attack each candidate. Dirty politics by proxy.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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One potential benifit of this is that both sides may be disgusted by the 527's and by the monumnetal amount of money spent in 2004 that we may actually start to see a move towards campaign finance reform.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
I personally feel that Kerry is a lying piece of .... but his inability to tell the truth isn't really a campaign issue.


I don't understand this. Doesn't integrity stand for anything anymore?



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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TextI don't understand this. Doesn't integrity stand for anything anymore?


Tell me about it, I have to agree with you on this one, just look at bush and cheney's integrity they have none.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
I personally feel that Kerry is a lying piece of .... but his inability to tell the truth isn't really a campaign issue.


I don't understand this. Doesn't integrity stand for anything anymore?


Yeah integrity does mean a lot, but again that goes back to the person. Personal traits of a candidate are not the types of issues that 527's can use to attempt to influence an election.
All I am saying is that 527s by definition can not support or oppose a candidate. I love to see Kerry get knocked down, and I'm not really even sure the SBVT qualifies as a 527, but the Kerry people are trying to make them out to be.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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Bush is lying too--goodness, he sat up there on Larry King with a straight face and said he hadn't seen the ad. What a dork. Come on! That was just a dumb lie. How foolish to sit up there and lie like a rug about something as simple as watching a frickin commercial when everybody knows he's seen it. It was obvious he was completely trying to avoid denouncing the ad--oh, but Kerry servered honorably--get me a tissue so i can clean up some of that crap. Even Laura was smirking. Yo, his hands are all over this switftboat thing and anyone that wants to deny it can go right ahead. My god this is the most annoying election ever! I can't wait for until November so it can just be over.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Even Laura was smirking. Yo, his hands are all over this switftboat thing and anyone that wants to deny it can go right ahead. My god this is the most annoying election ever! I can't wait for until November so it can just be over.


Occurs his cronies from Texas fixed this group for him, this has been done before when he was running for governor in Texas they used the same tactics with the democrat candidate in power that happened to be a women at that time, but occurs no to many people knows about that. During that time the person in charge was Karen Hudges and two more, if you want more information on this read the book by Laura Flanders The bush women. You will see the similarities on the slander campaign that won bushes seat for governor.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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Just Answer the Questions Mr. Kerry

Investors Business Daily puts the issue in perspective better than any other media I've come across on this controversy.

Investors Business Daily



Campaign '04: John Kerry says he'll fight claims he lied about or exaggerated his service in Vietnam. The best way to fight such charges would be to stop calling people names and start providing some answers.

It's too bad Kerry has responded to these charges and particularly those raised in the book "Unfit for Command" by former Swift boat commander John O'Neill by vowing to "attack."

So far, his "attack" seems to be of the political and personal kind, with Kerry and his followers claiming that O'Neill, and the 250 or so Swift boat vets who back him, are Republican Party shills

After all, it was Kerry himself with the smart salute and "reporting for duty" opening of his convention speech who made his military service the keystone of his campaign. And it is Kerry who has repeatedly compared himself favorably with President Bush on that score.

In so doing, he's all but ignored his undistinguished 20-year career in the U.S. Senate and his decade as an anti-war activist.

The Questions
Did Kerry commit war atrocities? This charge would seem unduly harsh to level at someone who fought in a war more than three decades ago except for the fact that he himself made it.

Did Kerry lie about "Christmas in Cambodia"? This is a story Kerry has repeated over and over as explanation for his later metamorphosis from decorated hero into staunch anti-war activist.

Kerry's medals. Kerry returned from his 4 1/2 month stint in Vietnam with three Purple Hearts for wounds, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for gallantry

You may be wondering: Why raise these questions now, in the heat of a campaign? Sadly, the major media have all but ignored questions of Kerry's record. They've been too busy looking for scandal in Bush's past and, more recently, attacking O'Neill and anyone else who dares question Kerry's glowing accounts of his service.

The bias is pervasive. As the Media Research Center, a media watchdog, pointed out, ABC, CBS and NBC did 75 stories on charges Bush was "AWOL" from the National Guard. They did nine on claims Kerry fibbed about his war record. Biased might be too kind a description.

The major media in this country are overwhelmingly liberal and refuse to ask the questions that need to be asked. They do their viewers and readers and Kerry for that matter a disservice.

If Kerry thinks he's being slandered, he should answer with facts not with insults, threats and lawsuits.

We have questions, senator. We're ready for your answers.


John Kerry please answer these questions so we (voters) can get back on issues such as your 20 year Senate record in order to make an informed decision in November

[edit on 22-8-2004 by Phoenix]



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