Pray or You're Fired.

wasting God's time by forcing people to pray to him, i'm sure is antithetical to the concept of prayer. can you picture it:

THE OP: (starts praying, awkwardly) um, so uh, yeah. hi. i guess. what's new? (grimaces)
...

i mean good grief, what brand of christianity is doing this to you, op?

reply to post by whaaa


i dunno, it's not much different than if someone who wasn't of your particular world view showed up in a public venue you enjoy, and began promoting a different world view to your mates, under duress (not saying the op's situation is like this, rather it's an analogy of what it means to force people to accept things they don't want to which applies to the op and also applies to other world views you disagree with or agree with. you can't force people to accept things they don't want to, as they WILL find a way around it or out of it. this also applies to your idea of making them pay for having a different opinion than your own, and them making the op pay by firing him for having a different opinion. you should respect other people, but the laws of the land can't FORCE you to respect other people in the manner you're suggesting and they shouldn't. )

If the Minister, (and i use that term loosely,) continues to insist that you are to pray in front of everyone, being the center of the congregations attention, why don't remind him of Mathew 6: 5-6 kjv

"1)And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6)But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

If, after being reminded of Christs' word on the subject of public prayer, the Minister still insists on firing you for not participating, by all means let him fire you. DO NOT QUIT!! There is no honor in quitting. But if you are fired for adhering to Scripture, then the onus is on the Minister, not you.

As for taking the church to court, I think that Paul said it best in his first letter to the Corinthians---(6:1-14)kjv

"1)Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2)Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3)Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4)If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5)I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6)But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7)Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8)Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9)Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10)Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11)And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

I believe what Paul is saying here is basicly "If they wrong you, suck it up" Another door will open up wherein you will be able to use your talents as a sound engineer/drummer.

Have Faith! and if you have Faith, put that faith into action.

It sounds like this so called "prayer director" is a real douche, and anything but a Christian. Try not to worked up about it, he is in the wrong and there will always be dumb people like him out there in society.

Hey there TrueAmerican, I just want to encourage you. You are a vital part of the smooth operation of the stage during worship, I run the sound and video for my church so I would know. You not only provide unity technologically speaking, but also have the opportunity to encourage unity spiritually, which is vital for worship and the presence of God. It's good to know that you pray in your personal time with God, and I know you know it's not unreasonable for them to expect you to pray with them. I also disagree with the manner in which they communicated it and if they are trying to get rid of you, it's probably a really good time to ask God if you're in the right place. Perhaps Galatians 5 will help you as you pray for understanding about their intentions and wisdom to know how to handle the situation. If it's just a misunderstanding, you may want to ask yourself whether or not it is worth it to allow yourself to be overcome by their lack of tact and break up what sounds to be an extremely skilled worship team. Don't give the enemy a foot hold in your church and destroy the worship. Pray, seek, and know. Also, Law suites are condemned among Christians for if each of you are lead of the Holy Spirit, you should be able to find a peaceful resolution without more conflict. Remember Galatians 5. Love and Peace, Your brother in Christ. : )

Galations 5:13-26
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would . 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galations 6:1-2
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted . 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I'm in Australia so I'm not sure if you have similar laws in place over there, but if it were to happen here, it would be grounds for 'unfair dismissal & 'discrimination''.
I believe in God & pray, but its very personal & certainly not in a church.
I too, would be greatly offended & feel violated to have any employer try to enforce this on me.
If you do have a similar law, let them sack you, then sue the a**holes.
Hope you get enough out of them so you don't have to work again!lol:
(Psssst-say a prayer

Hi TA. Very sorry to hear you're going through this. Sad that your rant here is the result of a Christian effort to worship in music and song. It's strange that this Worship Director has protected your position in the past, knows your feelings and is now demanding you become part of the prayer group before the service when it has never been an issue before. Sounds like even if you suck it up and give the appearance of praying, they may still be out to eliminate your position, so I wonder, what would be the next step, even if you complied? I can understand how betrayed you must feel, after giving years of service to this Church. No one wants to be told they must pray, let alone when or how to. You may have to rock the boat unless you decide to just go along with them, but at best, it sounds like 'going along' will only be a temporary bandage. Only you can decide that. Would suggest you take this up with the chain of command in the church, forcing them to confront this discrimination openly. Even if it's legal for them to do, doesn't make it right. If you can't make progress, take it to the Media. No Church wants bad press, so any hint of you doing that might make them back off. On a broader note (lol) this situation may be one that the public needs to hear about and learn from. It may also be worthwhile to seek opinion from another church body, but from here on out, continue to document and collect evidence, seek help from civil/human rights attorneys, the EEOC and the labor board in your community. Do not just quit your job, you may need unemployment benefits, but start a job search STAT to safety net yourself. In regard to attorneys, it's up to them to decide what the meaning of the word, 'is' is in a case. So let them go at it if need be. Wishing you the very best outcome in these difficult circumstances. Kub

You said your a sound man, well use that. Look up some sounds like sub sonic / ultra sonic or something similar that make folks sick. Kick it in when ever they pray at church. All those sinners getting sick when they hear the word and spewing in the pews. Maybe replace candles with sulfur laced candles if they use burning candles in that church..

But really, if it bothers you to lip sync that much find another job.

Stuff like this is one of the reasons I don't do organized religion.

Hi all,

First I want to thank most of you for your responses, although I don't appreciate the ones who tried to turn the knife in the stab wound even further just to make me feel worse about this than I already do. You suck.

Prayer is a very personal matter. Relationships with the Creator, or no Creator, depending on your belief system, is something that is your own responsibility and personal choice. It was never defined or required as part of the job. It is a job for me, although I have made many friends there.

To me the Church is trying to have its cake and eat it too, so to speak. On one hand they want a pro who takes the job seriously and has the knowledge to make them sound great. It is difficult to get that kind of dedication, attendance and experience in a volunteer. Most guys that have that experience rely on it for income, like me, so volunteering is difficult if not impossible. But on the other hand, they also want to demand that this pro pray with the worship team. In pro audio circles, the sound guy is never ever considered part of the band, and it's one reason I have a hard time understanding why they are defining me in the first place as part of the worship team.

If you aren't happy....

you could always pray for a new job?

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
reply to post by schuyler

 

...you want to limit how the author of the op uses his thread - and - how long he can vent his frustration - and - report him to the people who are screwing him?... wow - seems like you're taking this way too personally... makes me wonder why...

He can do what he wants. He asked for information on a public forum. We collectively gave it to him.He'e either having a hard time understanding what we told him or he's simply not accepting the information. He and others then got into what I would call a vindictive streak with "paybacks," etc. That's a far cry from asking for help. If you want to do that, go right ahead, but one unwritten "suggestion" concerning the Internet/email is "Never say anything you wouldn't want to see on the front page of a newspaper."

So, if, for example, we were to read of a strange, unfortunate happening in a church somewhere which matched up with this thread I certainly would put two and two together and let TPTB know. It would be worth investigating. If nothing else, this thread shows pre-meditation.

As to you, Wyn Hawks, "wondering why," how cryptic! (It's a conspiracy, dontcha know!) I do not attend church. I do not pray. I agree that OP shouldn't have to. What I learned in this thread is that yes, indeed, churches CAN discriminate in employment according to religion. I hadn't known that. That puts an interesting twist on the case. It means that should he enact one of these retaliation scenarios being discussed here, it is he who is potantially breaking the law, not the church. Then he really will need legal advice. Hopefully he's just venting a bit and has no real intention of following though.