Pray or You're Fired.

Right now I am fuming over this, and need to get this off my chest.

So I am an audio guy, soundman, engineer, or whatever derogatory term you want to use to belittle me and make me feel like not part of the band. Yeah, I got it.

And a regular place I work is at a Christian church. Been there for years, and never missed a gig. You could say I have paid my dues with these people, been extremely reliable, and am friends with all- but apparently that's not enough. Nope.

The worship director has decided, out of the blue, that it is now mandatory that I pray with the worship team, or I will be fired. The thing is, I often have, voluntarily. I have tried to explain to him that I take care of those things at home, and am ok in that department, but no- it's time to regress back to the 17th century and force the inquisition on me. Or he will get someone else- for a paid professional level position demanding a very experienced sound dog to cope with a bunch of persnickety ass musicians with master's degrees who have to have the best.

But you gotta pray with the worship team or be fired. Never mind that they are not demanding this of anyone else but me. The volunteer guys that run the video side of things? Nope, they show up much later- no demands on them. The musicians in the band who regularly come in late and miss the prayer session altogether? Nope- no demands on them either. I guess they won't rock the boat with the volunteers. But they will with the paid staff- oh yeah.

Now since when is it Christian like- modern Christian like- to force a lowly sound dog to pray with a worship team all of a sudden, when nothing of the sort was required, or has been required, since my initial hire years ago? Forcing me to pray with them, or be fired. That's the deal.

The praying part is no big deal. It's not about that at all. It's the principle of it. That a church full of supposed Christians is going to force that on one of their very own employees. I am just stunned. I don't know what to do, other than just quit- which I don't really want to do.

So the question is do I have any legal recourse on this? Should I sue them? For what? Can I? Would the case hold any water, or burst like a water balloon poked with a needle? What if I took this to the state labor board? They'd probably laugh at me.

I never imagined working at a church would be so political, but after having been there now for years and seeing what goes on- the politics, backstabbing, yapping, jealousy, etc., it's hard to believe these people have the sincere love of any real God in their hearts at all.

Clueless what to do. But mad, very.

Grrr.

ETA: Also, due to the way this went down, I am wondering if there is a conspiracy against me there.

Wow seriously sorry to hear that they are trying to make you go through hoops just to work for them...... It all depends on the type of work you do their that determines the final outcome of this without that kind of information there is not much advice to give, are you freelance or contracted with them?

reply to post by jheated5


I am regular part time employee, on payroll, them pulling out taxes, the whole bit.

They are obviously demented. Look for other work and leave when you find it.

Just go through the motions in the mean time.

It might be a good time to sit down, take stock and realise that the whole thing is a scam.

Just a thought.

I would contact a lawyer and see what your options are because I'm almost 100% sure what they asking of you is illegal.... Even if you decide not to go down that route I wouldn't suggest quitting either, you won't be collecting anything if you decide to quit.... As long as you do your job the way you are supposed to they can't do anything at all to you.... I don't want to cost you your job or anything but if they ask you to pray just refuse, if they fire you for that then they could have a lawsuit on their hands.....

Originally posted by TrueAmerican


Clueless what to do. But mad, very.

Grrr.

They are all political terrorist cults.
They are terrorizing you.
Be thankful yours is not the religion of peace.
Worship team?Is this a new sport?

I am honestly at a loss what to say.. as an outsider working with Americans I can say from my perception that some kind of change has overcome you guys..

I am not sure what to make of it really.. mostly it is petty stuff but usually is seems to sit under this do what we say or your out of a job.. very strange really and to be honest and I am not sure what to make of it or what to suggest in your case.

I do know a lot capitulate just to keep their jobs but are seething under the surface which is not healthy in the long term but paying bills right now is of foremost importance for most of us and the luxury of having principles comes a distant second.

The federal law specifically states that you cannot be discriminated against because of race, sex, or religion. If they fire you based solely on that, then you have a discrimination case against them.

Make sure you document everything in a notebook with dates since the time they started demanding this of you. Have it all documented so that you are better prepared if and when you have to sue them.


*** ETA *** If they are threatening you with termination for not praying, then I would speak to a lawyer that deals with these types of discrimination cases immediately.

Take this job and shove it, I ain't praying here no more!

Prayer is a personal and voluntary act of a faithful person.

Anyone who finds themselves in a place where prayers are mandatory in any way shape or form should realize they are not involved in a religion, rather they are in a cult.

Get the hell out of there!

He probably has an agenda..ie...wants to hire a friend for your position, maybe that's the reason for his new rule.

Inadvertently you have helped me answer a question I posed here, thanks

I say if it helps you keep your job, just pretend to pray. Not that bad really is it?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

So the question is do I have any legal recourse on this? Should I sue them? For what? Can I? Would the case hold any water, or burst like a water balloon poked with a needle? What if I took this to the state labor board? They'd probably laugh at me.

If you're not worried about losing your job in the process, I would definitely check it out, are there lawyers down there that will take a question for minimal fees?

I know in Canada, what they're doing is very illegal, but in the US, many of the regulations seem to be misplaced
It's a violation of human rights to be forced to pray.

Very interesting question. You cannot be forced to pray or partake of religion in order to maintain employment as that has been ruled on many many times however since it is a religious establishment that employs you I believe you must follow their guidlines of behavior in the workplace. It could fall under the category of having to show up for a meeting so you might be required to attend just not worship.

You would need to find out from a lawyer the exact rule that applies here but either way if you go down that road they will let you go. Just suck it up for a few minutes and do your job or as others stated look for something different.

The economy is awful. Don't make a scene. Just play along, get some resume's out and split if you don't like it. They can drop you for insubordination or something. Probably not worth it. Just split. Take the high, don't stoop to theirs!

I'd say talk to a lawyer. Most will consult with you for free and maybe write a letter.

Until you can talk to someone, just go along with the requirement.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I highly highly highly highly suggest you sue... It would be a great case to show these Christians we have rights protecting us from things like that, just the same as they have rights allowing them to worship who they please. Totally sue. You will easily win.

Originally posted by Signals
He probably has an agenda..ie...wants to hire a friend for your position, maybe that's the reason for his new rule.

From what I understand the church has tried to cut me several times and get a volunteer for the position, but the worship director himself has fought to keep me. But there's been a new guy with sound experience (so he thinks) hanging around.

So I suspect you may be right.

I as well believe that what they are trying to do is illegal. As an employer, even a church has obligations to follow secular law, and that may be (depending on your state) a crime to fire you over this.

You have some choices:

• Contact an attorney and get them to write a letter demanding that the church uphold their legal obligations. This will not endear you to anyone at the church and may well get you fired at the first hint of a legal reason, leaving you jobless with a bad reference.
  
  
• Hang your head during the prayer and act like you are praying. Prayer cannot really be forced on anyone anyway; it is a spiritual connection between yourself and God.
  
  
• Refuse and let them fire you, then have an attorney sue the pants off them. You won't get much (the lawyers will make real good if that's any consolation), it will probably take years to get that, but you will make sure this church knows they can't legally do this.
  
  
• Continue to try and work this out, including going over this guy's head. Most churches around here belong to some sort of national organization that they charter under, so you could always appeal to them.

Whichever route you choose, I wanted to say one thing, as a practicing Christian: I do not support, nor condone this activity, and the person trying to threaten your position should be excommunicated!

TheRedneck

try to get evidence (this could be anything. like emails fe). dont quit. dont pray. if your employment gets terminated, sue them.

eta: if you really want to get some bucks out of this, pray against your will and feel severily violated