Human Clone

reply to post by DAZ21


no i cant be sure, but thats why i said it was my opinion

reply to post by prevenge


thats a good point, whenever anything bad happens, christians always say that god works in mysterious ways. so by that logic they cant ever complain about anything 'man' does, because its part of their gods plan, afterall he works in mysterious ways lol

reply to post by prevenge


Actually I think most clones that have been made have been aborted, because of deformities, if they arn't aborted they usually get cancer or age prematurely.

Oh that's animal clones by the way.

Mommy and daddy, that's cute Haha.

reply to post by shimmeringsilver73


Interesting, makes you wonder doesn't it?

I think it is important to note that your clone is not going to pop out of the oven the same age as you are now. It will still have to be a fetus, require a womb and have to grow and develop as any one would. The whole process is at this point a modified form of sexual reproduction and while the modifying may indeed carry side effects it is nothing new to nature.

Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by prevenge

 

Actually I think most clones that have been made have been aborted, because of deformities, if they arn't aborted they usually get cancer or age prematurely.

Oh that's animal clones by the way.

Mommy and daddy, that's cute Haha.

edit on 21-8-2011 by DAZ21 because: spelling

well... maybe - maybe not...

On 14 February 2003, Dolly was euthanised because she had a progressive lung disease and severe arthritis.[12] A Finn Dorset such as Dolly has a life expectancy of around 11 to 12 years, but Dolly lived to be only six years of age. A post-mortem examination showed she had a form of lung cancer called Jaagsiekte,[13] which is a fairly common disease of sheep and is caused by the retrovirus JSRV.[14] Roslin scientists stated that they did not think there was a connection with Dolly being a clone, and that other sheep in the same flock had died of the same disease.[12] Such lung diseases are a particular danger for sheep kept indoors, and Dolly had to sleep inside for security reasons. Some have speculated that a contributing factor to Dolly's death was that she could have been born with a genetic age of six years, the same age as the sheep from which she was cloned.[15] One basis for this idea was the finding that Dolly's telomeres were short, which typically is a result of the ageing process.[16][17] The Roslin Institute have stated that intensive health screening did not reveal any abnormalities in Dolly that could have come from advanced ageing.[15]

source - en.wikipedia.org...

if so - whos to say that can't be perfected.... and does "god" kill healthy people with cancer??

reply to post by prevenge


Maybe it can be perfected maybe not.

Cancer is just gene deformity, the reason normal people suffer is mainly from enviromental factors. But if clones are more susceptible, there must be a reason why.

Maybe natures way of destroying an unnatural being?

No matter how much humans try, they will not be able to produce clones. They will not be able to produce living souls the way God does. A soul is not some ghostly spirit being that is hiding within our physical bodies. A soul is flesh, plus the breath of life, which only God can give.

Genesis 2:7(KJV)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Anything that is put before God becomes an idol. Thinking that they, as humans, are able to do that which only God can do, is a form of idolatry ( www.thefreedictionary.com... ). When something becomes an idol for someone, it will eventually take the place of God in their life. This breaks commandments #1 and #2.

So yes, anyone with a fundamental knowledge of the Bible knows that cloning is something that humans should not mess with.

If creating life is wrong, then women are wrong when they bear a child.
I see very little difference between a child born in a test tube or in a mothers womb.

The judeo-christian god told man to procreate, and cloning is just a form of procreation.

Now I may not feel comfortable cloning an entire person. When you clone someone you steal their uniqueness.
You rob them of something that makes them them. Unless they willingly offer to be cloned it should never be done.

But as for cloning body parts and organs, I completely agree with such a practice.

As for the spirit or soul, I have no idea.
I am still trying organize my feelings on such things.

In any case I am sure any cloned persons would not be doomed to a horrible after life. At least no more than any human being.

I personally believe when it comes to our souls there is no you or I. Basically our brains are like a radio which tune into the "soul" however it is all connected. So in that respect, I think clones might just be able to have a soul if they can tune into those frequencies.

I wouldn't wish my body on anyone!!

Wouldn't mind a modified clone that does not need food or sleep and has no emotion so I would never have to work again

reply to post by Flying Sorcerer


That's a great application.

Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by prevenge

 

Maybe it can be perfected maybe not.

Cancer is just gene deformity, the reason normal people suffer is mainly from enviromental factors. But if clones are more susceptible, there must be a reason why.

Maybe natures way of destroying an unnatural being?

so by defining a clone as 'unnatural' you are placing it outside of 'nature'.
Nature is all and everything.
we are a part of nature.
we are nature. anything we create is part of nature.. is a result of the existence of the human DNA code.
things we make may not be in harmony with our ecosystem.. and therefor be toxic to our environment...
but these things are still 'natural'.

i don't think your opinion on the matter is a very novel one. it seems you're just parroting what some preacher said.

Originally posted by LifeInDeath
Nature already makes clones, they are called identical twins - siblings born with the exact same DNA. Are they usually very similar in their ways, their interests and desires? Yes. Are they the same person? No. They are individuals with their own thoughts, decisions and often very different personalities. It's true that twins sometimes are very alike in most ways and may even seem to "share a brain" sometimes, but they are not the same person.

Clones would be no different. If you cloned yourself, the copy of you wouldn't have your thoughts. He/she would have to develop just like a normal person over the years and would develop as a separate individual. He or she would be their own person.

edit on 8/21/2011 by LifeInDeath because: (no reason given)

VERY good way to put it. I agree.
I never really thought about twins and a clone of someone being basically the same...but it does make sense.

Originally posted by jeramie
No matter how much humans try, they will not be able to produce clones. They will not be able to produce living souls the way God does. A soul is not some ghostly spirit being that is hiding within our physical bodies. A soul is flesh, plus the breath of life, which only God can give.

Genesis 2:7(KJV)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Anything that is put before God becomes an idol. Thinking that they, as humans, are able to do that which only God can do, is a form of idolatry ( www.thefreedictionary.com... ). When something becomes an idol for someone, it will eventually take the place of God in their life. This breaks commandments #1 and #2.

So yes, anyone with a fundamental knowledge of the Bible knows that cloning is something that humans should not mess with.

whenever anything bad happens, christians always say that god works in mysterious ways. so by that logic you cant ever complain about anything 'man' does, because its part of your gods plan, afterall he works in mysterious ways. so nerrr

reply to post by prevenge


I'm sorry I haven't been listening to any preachers.
You seem confused, but I have a post on human nature maybe you can enlighten yourself by reading that one through.

Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by LifeInDeath

 

I see what your saying, but hasn't there been cases of one feeling anothers pain even from miles away?

The only way you could explain that is if the twins were actually sharing a soul. Research the connection between twins.

Sharing a soul or psychic connection? There's a lot we don't understand about consciousness and how the brain works. There are even some serious scientists in these fields who have posited that the brain doesn't so much store information as it receives it from some other source (a collective unconsciousness?). If you have two people who are almost identical in every way, perhaps they can more easily receive the same pieces of information from this collective pool of thoughts, and even share it as they are adding to it/experiencing it.

Originally posted by DAZ21
If you were to clone yourself as a perfect replica, would you also clone your very soul?

Nope it would seem you have generated a free 3d body to be injected into.

Why is it bad, hmm

Visualise a location where there a many of these clones MODIFIED TOO ADD. NOW THESE ARE NOT FREE WILLED FOR THEY ARE TAUGHT BY THEIR CREATING FATHERS once incarnated into their NEW 3D DEMONIC BODIES...
Further visualise the teaching tech somewhat like on battlefield earth and you can teach the total clone mass to behave in certain ways ACTING LIKE GOD/CREATOR. Now open the access to YOU and they have been programmed to fly shoot attack certains. Finally ask yourself is this dangerous power practice especially if these clones are controlled w/ weapons that fly drive shoot ect... Not to mention there native energy location/home of their ultra/interdimensional selves

Be well

reply to post by SouthernRain55


I don't really know if the terminology is really correct. I think that a soul is your life attitudes, interests, experience, behavior, memories, stuff like that, I think. Spirit, to me, is a higher part of us. Like the part that has to do with a deeper intuitive and grand part of us. The part that goes to reunite with god/goddess when our bodies die, or reincarnates to a new life, that sort of thing. I don't know what happens after death, so I can't be more specific. Wow, it's actually quite difficult for me to put in words what I'm thinking.

I'm actually rethinking the whole thing about cloning actually. I'm not sure what to think. It's very interesting to ponder though.

Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
reply to post by SouthernRain55

 

I don't really know if the terminology is really correct. I think that a soul is your life attitudes, interests, experience, behavior, memories, stuff like that, I think. Spirit, to me, is a higher part of us. Like the part that has to do with a deeper intuitive and grand part of us. The part that goes to reunite with god/goddess when our bodies die, or reincarnates to a new life, that sort of thing. I don't know what happens after death, so I can't be more specific. Wow, it's actually quite difficult for me to put in words what I'm thinking.

I'm actually rethinking the whole thing about cloning actually. I'm not sure what to think. It's very interesting to ponder though.

Thanks for replying to my question Ellie. After asking the question...I started to ponder and that's about what I came up with as well. I think you did a fine job of explaining it.
Basically to have a soul is to be alive (to breathe) and to have a spirit is your higher being and who you are without the shell (body).