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Could Someone Please Tell Me Why Middle Class Democrats Vote The Way That They Do?

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posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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It’s been my experience that a person’s political views never contradict their true nature and intelligence as a person. You can tell a lot about a person’s philosophy by just asking a couple of questions about how they vote. The one exception to this is the middle class democrat. I can understand why any other demographics will vote one way or another and I sincerely want to understand this one as well.

Very seldom does one come across a small business owner or a working class family with an annual household income of $80-200k that votes democrat. Even when you do, they usually have very conservative financial views. So what tilts the scales toward the left?

If there happen to be any middle to upper-middle class democrats reading this post, would you be so kind as to enlighten me? Is it a morality issue? Social issues? Economic policies? Views on war? Or did you grow up in a democratic family or maybe are surrounded by peers who vote democrat? There is no wrong answer and this not a ploy to convert anyone, I would simply like to understand your logic.

This topic is up for discussion or speculation, so everyone is invited to weigh in on this.




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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I am a middle to upper middle class Democrat. My number one reason for being a Democrat is to help defeat the Republicans. I once considered myself to be Libertarian, but with age I realized this was foolish in the sense that Libertarians will never take power, and foolish in the sense that most people in fact do need rules and regulations to behave decently. Freedom is definitely best taken in moderation - I can handle it, but most cannot.

On specific issues, I am a Christian, and I believe that means I should support charity, love, peace, and tolerance (the basic values Jesus taught). Charity = entitlements. Love = doing things because you want to help (not because there is something in it for you). Peace = anti-war. Tolerance = anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-homophobia, etc.

I find the hypocrisy of the Christian Right to be galling. The very term is oxymoronic. The bat# crazy Tea Party Republican dominionist voices like Michelle Bachmann are preaching selfishness, hatred, war and intolerance. In my opinion these people are definitely not Christians, but they are convinced that are right and the rest of us are the anti-Christ (how ironic). Underneath all of this Fox News-esqe propaganda campaign is the GOP's real agenda, which is the improve the profitability of those who fund the party. It is essentially a department of Corporate America, and it is destroying this country.

My friends, mostly upper middle urban white folks, feel the same way.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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And, by the way, the most disgusting thing the Republican party represents is anti-intellectualism. The idea that knowledge is dangerous is creeping into our political discourse, and this is a very, very frightening trend. We cannot allow the know-nothings to control our country.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by TheThirdAdam
 


Democrats are basically just Republicans who won't lie about their excessive spending, homo-sexuality and abortions. The only difference between the two is honesty and integrity.
edit on 18-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:35 AM
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The same reason everyone votes...
YOU ARE BRAINWASHED IN TO THINKING IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THINGS


Seriously if you dont understand


LEFT WING - RIGHT WING - SAME BIRD


And you hang out on ATS, you need to read more and think outside the box a little.



CLICK HERE to see if the Republicans or Democrats are the best.

edit on 18-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Grumble
I am a middle to upper middle class Democrat. My number one reason for being a Democrat is to help defeat the Republicans. I once considered myself to be Libertarian, but with age I realized this was foolish in the sense that Libertarians will never take power, and foolish in the sense that most people in fact do need rules and regulations to behave decently. Freedom is definitely best taken in moderation - I can handle it, but most cannot.


First of all, thank you for your intelligent reply. I too consider myself Libertarian yet do not vote for their candidates for the same reasons that you have listed, but I do this mostly because (especially in the presidential election) it would really just be a wasted vote. They have some very good ideas and values on a lot of issues but others are simply just not realistic. I think their philosophy needs to be perfected in order to be taken seriously.



On specific issues, I am a Christian, and I believe that means I should support charity, love, peace, and tolerance (the basic values Jesus taught). Charity = entitlements. Love = doing things because you want to help (not because there is something in it for you). Peace = anti-war. Tolerance = anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-homophobia, etc.


I agree with you on everything that you say that you believe in except for one thing and that is your pro-entitlement stance and this is the game changer for me when picking a party that has a realistic chance of winning. My original question was actually based primarily on this issue. I vote republican because I (theoretically) like their stance on government spending and taxation.

I feel that both parties have a great deal of corruption in their ranks, but what really bothers me about the left is their tendency to run for office on promises of increasing entitlements, new social programs, and other “charitable” spending. You cannot deny that these programs are often abused by those who could do without them, just as I won’t deny that there are many who honestly do need them for survival.

Those who make promises in order to gain favor with voters are usually democrats, and doing this, I feel, is the same as buying votes, only they are buying them with other taxpayers money (who probably didn’t vote for them anyway). Do you see the irony there? Also, I consider myself to be a very giving person who is willing to help anyone that I can in need, but when you take money from someone else by force of law to give to another it ceases to be charity, in my opinion. We may disagree on this but as I have said, I’m not here to convert anyone, just to learn.

I do believe that many of the programs should be in place. I think that the social security, disability, and unemployment benefits that we pay along with our taxes are good in the same sense that mandatory car insurance is good and protects others from being financially responsible for you. Hell, maybe government healthcare would work if they did that way and kept the same standards that they use in the private sector.

I guess I would think that a person in your financial position would lean more to the conservative side because of the left’s spending habits, but you seem to be a very practical and intelligent person and I respect your opinion.



I find the hypocrisy of the Christian Right to be galling. The very term is oxymoronic. The bat# crazy Tea Party Republican dominionist voices like Michelle Bachmann are preaching selfishness, hatred, war and intolerance. In my opinion these people are definitely not Christians, but they are convinced that are right and the rest of us are the anti-Christ (how ironic). Underneath all of this Fox News-esqe propaganda campaign is the GOP's real agenda, which is the improve the profitability of those who fund the party. It is essentially a department of Corporate America, and it is destroying this country


These clowns are just ridiculous



And, by the way, the most disgusting thing the Republican party represents is anti-intellectualism. The idea that knowledge is dangerous is creeping into our political discourse, and this is a very, very frightening trend. We cannot allow the know-nothings to control our country.


Could you please elaborate?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by TheThirdAdam
 


Democrats are basically just Republicans who won't lie about their excessive spending, homo-sexuality and abortions. The only difference between the two is honesty and integrity.
edit on 18-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)


I wouldn't go so far as to say that one has more integrity than the other, they both are very self-righteous and both have selfish agendas at the core. Both are full of power hungry sociopaths, the only difference is where they get the votes and what lies they tell to get them.


Originally posted by byteshertz
The same reason everyone votes...
YOU ARE BRAINWASHED IN TO THINKING IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THINGS


Not really, for me voting is like the guy who deep down doesn't believe in God, but goes to church anyway just because it's better to be safe than sorry. Besides it's only about thirty minutes out of one day every few years.

(Plus it's nice to sometimes convince myself that my kids will be able to at least have a year or two of adult life in America.)
edit on 18-8-2011 by TheThirdAdam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by byteshertz
The same reason everyone votes...
YOU ARE BRAINWASHED IN TO THINKING IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THINGS
Seriously if you dont understand

LEFT WING - RIGHT WING - SAME BIRD

And you hang out on ATS, you need to read more and think outside the box a little.
CLICK HERE to see if the Republicans or Democrats are the best.
edit on 18-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



I can think outside the box.


Now show me a candidate that is outside the box.


Pretty barren here outside the box.


Hopping back in the box now.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
I can think outside the box.


Now show me a candidate that is outside the box.


Pretty barren here outside the box.


Hopping back in the box now.



Ron Paul???


But seriously you're right on with that one, old sport...

I say just cast a vote towards whoever you think has the best chance at reducing the deficit and make it easier for you to put food on the table.

Is it really a choice when it's between the lesser of two evils that took money from the same evils?
edit on 18-8-2011 by TheThirdAdam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by TheThirdAdam

Originally posted by newcovenant
I can think outside the box.


Now show me a candidate that is outside the box.


Pretty barren here outside the box.


Hopping back in the box now.



Ron Paul???


But seriously you're right on with that one, old sport...

I say just cast a vote towards whoever you think has the best chance at reducing the deficit and make it easier for you to put food on the table.

Is it really a choice when it's between the lesser of two evils that took money from the same evils?
edit on 18-8-2011 by TheThirdAdam because: (no reason given)


If he's in there, I'll vote for him but, right now sad to say we have the lesser of the 2 evils. We have the other beast locked up. Can't you hear a dragon flapping its leathery wings, trying to bust out? Been rattling that cage and screeching like a velociraptor for 3 years. This GOP could not even wait 4 years before it went all Bill Bixby on America, due to the fact Obama won and they lost.

Riddle me this?
If health care is not a right Americans have, why do we offer it free to Congress and the Senate? They don't do crap. We hate them. If we are griping about their travel and transportation why am I fixing their teeth, removing their bunions and paying for their yearly tests? Maybe I don't want them to live a long time. What is fair about that? You don't want to over burden the system? Then switch it around, cover me and make them pay.

Who ever ends the war is going to reduce the deficit and stop sending Americans to die (and accidentally murdering innocent civilians) so that is a 2fer. Who ever repeals the Bush Tax cuts is going to also reduce the deficit, and if Obama just keeps his promises...that will be an all 3fer.
edit on 18-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
It’s been my experience that a person’s political views never contradict their true nature and intelligence as a person. You can tell a lot about a person’s philosophy by just asking a couple of questions about how they vote. The one exception to this is the middle class democrat. I can understand why any other demographics will vote one way or another and I sincerely want to understand this one as well.

Very seldom does one come across a small business owner or a working class family with an annual household income of $80-200k that votes democrat. Even when you do, they usually have very conservative financial views. So what tilts the scales toward the left?

If there happen to be any middle to upper-middle class democrats reading this post, would you be so kind as to enlighten me? Is it a morality issue? Social issues? Economic policies? Views on war? Or did you grow up in a democratic family or maybe are surrounded by peers who vote democrat? There is no wrong answer and this not a ploy to convert anyone, I would simply like to understand your logic.

This topic is up for discussion or speculation, so everyone is invited to weigh in on this.


I dunno where you come across the notion that one seldom meets business owners who vote democratic or hold liberal views. Anecdotal evidence is heavily limited evidence. I live on an island full of well-off business owners, almost all of whim I have met are awfully darn liberal and vote straight democratic tickets. I know two - exactly two people who vote republican. And one of them is what we term an "Alaskan republican" (basically just someone with very liberal views who has a knee-jerk reaction to the word "government")

To answer the question... unless you've already got more money than you can spend in your lifetime, a vote for the Republican party is pretty clearly a vote against your own self-interest. While the Democrats under the DLC have become pretty anti-main street, this is because they're playing catchup with the Republicans and trying to steal planks of that platform... reprehensible in its own way, but it was the Republicans who thought the stuff up first.

The foundation of the middle class is made of things that even a lovey-dovey Republican die-hard would tell you they're dead set against; Public education, strong labor, progressive taxation, welfare, and some level of trade protectionism. of course, thirty years of brainless training have turned many middle-class people against these same bulwarks of their own position, but that doesn't mean they stopped being the foundations of the middle class.

Democrats on the other hand have traditionally given strong support to all of these things and have made clear how each feeds into the other, weaving a strong net for the middle class to hold to.

Thus the voting trnd for democrats (and thus also, part of the reason for the Republicans to want to destroy the middle class; they vote Democrat, after all!)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


Wasn't saying that I didn't like Ron Paul or that I wouldn't vote for him if he were to get the nod from the GOP, but lets face it, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! It's no coincidence that Perry somehow always finds a way to get some mention in the msm but RP is seldom heard of.

The sad thing is that RP would be the best choice out of all three but he's a bit of a wild card for the GOP since his proposals don't quite line up with their agenda. We don't really have a choice in it, the party leader are the ones who decide who will be on the ballot and they are taking money from the same mega corps that somehow always come out on top...

I usually try to be optimistic, but at this point I have to say we're screwed.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:44 AM
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I sometimes wonder why working class people would vote for the Republicans, always seemed like Turkeys voting for Christmas to me.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Because most voters get there info through the msm and on the surface you get:

(Dem)- "We are going to start a universal healthcare program, increase funding for low income housing, ect."
Middle class voter translation- "We're going to raise your taxes for programs that do not benefit you because you make too much money to qualify..."

(Rep)-"We are going to cut taxes of middle class, bring more jobs back stateside, cut social programs, ect."
Middle class voter translation-"You are going to make more money, you will be able find another job, and you won't have to pay for somebody who doesn't work's groceries..."

That's why I asked the question in the first place


reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I don't really know how to respond to that post, or if it is even worth debating here... maybe it's just the areas that I have lived in (and to my knowledge they were pretty liberal cities- NYC, Austin, NOLA) but what you are descibing your hometown as sounds pretty unique to the west coast or maybe even NY/NJ areas... not so much with the rest of continental US, but I'm glad that you've found a place where others in your position share your views. I'm just saying that I personally haven't met a great number of $100-200k earners who are democrats
edit on 18-8-2011 by TheThirdAdam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by TheThirdAdam
 


No matter who (or what... *eyes Bachman*) wins the republican nomination, no apple carts will be tipped over. All of the candidates - all of them hold the republican party line when it comes ot economics. No matter who gets the nomination, that particular fix is in; and everything else is just a dog and pony show for you to enjoy while being brutally molested by the Invisible hand.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 



I don't really know how to respond to that post, or if it is even worth debating here... maybe it's just the areas that I have lived in (and to my knowledge they were pretty liberal) but what you are descibing your hometown as sounds pretty unique to the west coast or maybe even NY/NJ areas... not so much with the rest of continental US, but I'm glad that you've found a place where others in your position share your views.


Again, it's anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is of questionable value even when everyone in the debate can reference the same experiences. Applied over the internet, it's largely meaningless. You and I have different experiences, and I seriously doubt wither of us knows everyone who fits the criteria anyway (well, I might, it's a small community and I've spent time at the yacht club
)

Also I like the little dismissal of the coastal areas. As if Iowans serve any point other than being stage pieces for when a candidate wants to look "down home."
edit on 18/8/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I'm curious about what exactly your political stance is? I'm following your post on the other thread and maybe i'm missing something here but you seem to be throwing out alot of strong opinions that don't really make much sense. Like I said, it could just be me misunderstanding you, but could you try to sum it up in a paragraph or so just so that we are clear?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by TheThirdAdam
 


I'm not sure what's hard to understand, really. In fact that between the two threads you have trouble divining my leanings frankly puzzled the hell out of me.

A paragraph would be too short, and it's too late in the evening to try to give more. Basically put, I'm one of those liberals who isn't afraid to be called "liberal" or even - gasp - leftist. "Progressives" can bite my big toe, the schmucks.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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Mickey Mouse has the magic, what does your candidate have???

seriously, Mickey Mouse if my candidate of choice, the dems and the republicans have killed any faith I have in them long ago.....



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 



Very seldom does one come across a small business owner or a...


Change "does one" to "have I" ect...



Again, it's anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is of questionable value even when everyone in the debate can reference the same experiences. Applied over the internet, it's largely meaningless. You and I have different experiences, and I seriously doubt wither of us knows everyone who fits the criteria anyway...


My OP was just a question that was obviously based on my own personal experience and observations, and since your first post on this thread you have done nothing but try to argue that my observations were wrong. At this point you're really not making very much sense, since you still have yet to offer any real input to the conversation.





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