Could Someone Please Tell Me Why Middle Class Democrats Vote The Way That They Do?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by TheThirdAdam

 

I'm not sure what's hard to understand, really. In fact that between the two threads you have trouble divining my leanings frankly puzzled the hell out of me.

A paragraph would be too short, and it's too late in the evening to try to give more. Basically put, I'm one of those liberals who isn't afraid to be called "liberal" or even - gasp - leftist. "Progressives" can bite my big toe, the schmucks.

I'm sorry, have Isaid something that you found offensive? Why exactly do you think I care whether or not you are a liberal? I really don't, so I'm not sure why this even went to this place, I was never trying to argue with you, and if said something to offend you, I am truly sorry, that was never my intention.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


Except for where I, you know, laid out why middle-class democrats vote that way. I understand it's probably not the sort of answer you were hoping to get, or perhaps you just couldn't get over me calling your anecdotes into question. But it's there. Read it.

Because Republicans have been out loud and proud about their positions on certain things. They began running against all the ideals that built the middle class in this country as evil socialism.

See, I would like to go from the first floor to the second floor. While Democrats promise to keep the stairs in safe working condition, the Republicans are running around doing everything they can to block funding for the stairs and promising that if elected president they will rip the stairs right out because that is freedom.

Meanwhile my socialist cousin is in Europe, on vacation again, after getting another free checkup. He seems to feel more free than I do because I am so busy trying to build my own staircase AGAIN.

When you openly campaign on the promise to destroy what built the middle class in America you kind of made your bed.

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
I'm sorry, have Isaid something that you found offensive?

You'd have to try really hard to pull that off

Why exactly do you think I care whether or not you are a liberal? I really don't, so I'm not sure why this even went to this place,

...Really? 'Cause.. .this is your post;

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

I'm curious about what exactly your political stance is?

I gave you an answer - granted a bit truncated because of the time.

I was never trying to argue with you, and if said something to offend you, I am truly sorry, that was never my intention.

Just answering the question you posed

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

Because most voters get there info through the msm and on the surface you get:

(Dem)- "We are going to start a universal healthcare program, increase funding for low income housing, ect."
Middle class voter translation- "We're going to raise your taxes for programs that do not benefit you because you make too much money to qualify..."

(Rep)-"We are going to cut taxes of middle class, bring more jobs back stateside, cut social programs, ect."
Middle class voter translation-"You are going to make more money, you will be able find another job, and you won't have to pay for somebody who doesn't work's groceries..."

That's why I asked the question in the first place

That sure sounds specifically like ONE particular media outlet. I find it hard to believe you heard any of that on MSNBC.

The reality is that my taxes have gone down under Obama, like most people in the US. The Republicans are only worried about the taxes paid by millionaires and billionaires. They are not worried about what I pay.

Originally posted by Grumble
Freedom is definitely best taken in moderation - I can handle it, but most cannot.

And THAT is the problem I have with Democrats.

"I can handle being free, but the rest of you, who are clearly not up to the task, NEED my help, and that of the government".

No wonder we are losing more and more of our liberties with each passing day.

I find it sad that even here on ATS where people are allegedly more informed, the absolutely farcical R/D debate is still so deeply entrenched and so many people are still buying into such an obvious charade.

A definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things hoping for a different outcome.

It's so obvious that there is a clear agenda which is being followed, and has been for decades, irrespective of who is President.

I bet even TPTB must be sitting there in disbelief that even now, despite all the information available on the internet and from even the most superficial observation of the history of the last decades, people are still jumping to follow the insane charade they have created.

I honestly wonder what hope there is for the world when I see such denial, such refusal to face the truth, such gullability..

It's as though no matter what happens, people will willfully persist in swallowing the bs and, like lemmings, behave exactly as programmed.

Am I angry? Yes I am. This kind of gullibility is culpable.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Okay, we obviously have a serious comunication problem that stems from our different definitions and understanding of how/what certain things are.I am not a conservative and actually am quite liberal in my views on most social issues, but this is irelevent to anything being discussed. At first you were saying a good bit about how evil the right wingers are and then you went on to talk about how the left was "picking up that platform", which confused me because everything else was very pro left but then you started saying how the left was going the way of the right. This is why I asked you to clarify your position.

Even though I don't exactly agree with you, I do respect your opinion. I feel that this is as far as our conversation needs to go because anything else that I might have to say would simply be my own personal point of view and you clearly have your own solid grasp on whats going on, so it is pointless to continue this dialog.

Thank you for the stimulating conversation

I have thought about this a lot, OP. I come from a very conservative background and that's probably a closer description of what I am than liberal but at the same time I care a lot about some liberal issues such as anti-war and especially the environment. But really the things I most want to see are things neither party wants - closed borders, outsourcing and offshoring punished by high taxes, banks broken up and banksters jailed or at least stripped of money, cultural changes, etc. Neither of the two parties seems interested in the things I find most important!

If you really feel you have to break everything down into lib vs con, I think a big part of the difference is almost psychological, its a kind of difference in the way of looking at the world. Its like two different cultural languages, arguing at cross-purposes ("this is a pencil" "no it is a crayon en Francais" etc etc...neither right or wrong of course...). But more than vocabulary, rather a whole way of thinking. Like Im still getting used to non-biblical thinkers on this board and in the real world and its a shocker lol. Something different in the way our brains were hardwired when we were young? Its not a matter of intelligence, clearly intelligent people exist on both sides, along with idiots. Its...something...almost atrmospeheric, if you know what I mean.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


I am in that income bracket, I don't have political parties affiliations I see the crap we have for government just fine, political parties are nothing but deceiving the people into thinking that is a difference between Democrap and Republcanrats, they are both the same and prop by the same entities, corrupted money from private interest runs our political system.

So as you can see I most be the exception, I am not blind, because I see the crap exuding from our political system all the time.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I sometimes wonder why working class people would vote for the Republicans, always seemed like Turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

A very funny observation and sadly true.
Most people know it, the rest pretend they don't.

Regarding the whole falling for the left/right paradigm thingie:

I agree that both parties are unwiling to tackle many important issues that many people on this site know very well. But the reason for that is that we are indeed a democratic republic, and there are many issues that are "third rails" for politicians because the voting public doesn't want to hear about them. So how do we change that? We do what it takes for this country to make progress toward a more educated, enlightened future. The Democrats are the party of progress, while the Republicans are all about turning back the clock. The Democrats are far from perfect, for sure, but they want us to head in the right direction.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by Grumble
Freedom is definitely best taken in moderation - I can handle it, but most cannot.

And THAT is the problem I have with Democrats.

"I can handle being free, but the rest of you, who are clearly not up to the task, NEED my help, and that of the government".

No wonder we are losing more and more of our liberties with each passing day.

edit on 18-8-2011 by GeorgiaGirl because: typo!

I understand your sentiment. As I said, I myself was a Libertarian when younger. But old age and experience have taught me that most people are wandering through this life barely aware of what is important, with little perspective, and with disastrous misconceptions about our world. These people behave very badly and they hurt many people. As a society we should have a framework of rules and regulations to protect the general public from the misdeeds of the misguided.

Originally posted by byteshertz
The same reason everyone votes...
YOU ARE BRAINWASHED IN TO THINKING IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THINGS

Seriously if you dont understand

LEFT WING - RIGHT WING - SAME BIRD

And you hang out on ATS, you need to read more and think outside the box a little.

They are about as much "The Same Bird" as Humming Birds are to Ostriches. This "they're the same bird" mentality is only propagated by those who are unable to factually debate the actual differences between the two parties and regardless of how many times you repeat it, it doesn't make it true.

With respect to the OP's question as to why middle class democrats vote the way they do, I'd have to say that I agree 100% with the answer given by "Grumble," nothing more and nothing less.

I am a middle to upper middle class Democrat. My number one reason for being a Democrat is to help defeat the Republicans. I once considered myself to be Libertarian, but with age I realized this was foolish in the sense that Libertarians will never take power, and foolish in the sense that most people in fact do need rules and regulations to behave decently. Freedom is definitely best taken in moderation - I can handle it, but most cannot.

On specific issues, I am a Christian, and I believe that means I should support charity, love, peace, and tolerance (the basic values Jesus taught). Charity = entitlements. Love = doing things because you want to help (not because there is something in it for you). Peace = anti-war. Tolerance = anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-homophobia, etc.

I find the hypocrisy of the Christian Right to be galling. The very term is oxymoronic. The bat# crazy Tea Party Republican dominionist voices like Michelle Bachmann are preaching selfishness, hatred, war and intolerance. In my opinion these people are definitely not Christians, but they are convinced that are right and the rest of us are the anti-Christ (how ironic). Underneath all of this Fox News-esqe propaganda campaign is the GOP's real agenda, which is the improve the profitability of those who fund the party. It is essentially a department of Corporate America, and it is destroying this country.

My friends, mostly upper middle urban white folks, feel the same way.