Spare the rod, spoil the child

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by nuttin4U

Originally posted by pshea38
reply to post by ManOfGod267

 

You have no right to use any violence against another human being, except in self
defence. Why anyone would hit their child is beyond me. I have never once laid
a finger on my 9 year old son and we have a great relationship and love each
other very much. He is far from spoiled. If a parent cannot deal with any problems
regarding their child intellectually and without the use or threat of violence, then they should not
be a parent. How can anyone hit someone they love, and claim it is for the good?
No.No.No!! You have no right!

You have EVERY RIGHT. What you have no right to do, is tell me how to raise....MY CHILD! That's where the biggest problem is...people are worried about my house, and not their own. It's MY CHILD!!! What part don't you get? Like my momma always used to say...."I brought you into this world.....I'll take you out!"

I would love to know the ages of some of these, non-disciplining parents of today. 21 years old...with a baby, hardly makes you an adult. You're still trying to figure out your life...and you're gonna give the best to your child? ahahahah I doubt it!

You are plain ignorant, and i wouldn't let your type anywhere near my child. You don't own
another human being, be it your child or not. And if 21 year olds think like you say, they buy
and sell you in terms of decency and attitude. You think you know s**t.
You don't know s**t. If i saw you hitting a child in public, i would be very tempted to give
you a taste of your own medicine. Your type will probably make excuses for the despicables
of the horror story in the opening post. You are probably not far off them!

I would LOOOOOVE for you to give me a taste. AND, i'll even give you my address. Mr KEYBOARD WARRIOR! Come and pay me a visit....and i'll show YOU some discipline. U2U me, and i'll make that happen! Brave man!!!! You might want to bring back up...to make it a 'fair fight'. Then, i can show my daughters another lesson....how to beat your opponent to a pulp. Or at LEAST til they tap out! FEEL ME?

Now, onto a more dignified conversation with YOUR uninformed ass. No one ever said i hit my kids in public. Don't get it twisted. I don't NEED to hit my kids, because.......they already KNOW how to act. They already have discipline! Something that you, sir, lack! Someone should have washed your mouth out with soap....with all the shish you're talkin'!

And as for your other comments....you come here, talking about "horror story in the opening post" after you just threatened me? You sir, sound like the horror story; just 1 itch away from loosing it! You start off looking for a fight...and it's wiser to learn how to pick your battles!

Let me guess....you don't have kids...right?

Well, i'll clue you in. I do!!! I have 5 GIRLS..ages 17 - 5....all straight A students and top of their class. My 17 year old is in High School, and graduating with HONORS...and more than likely on her way to a rather prestigious UNIVERSITY (if she so chooses)! My 5 year old...is fluent in 2 languages....knows how to use a computer....knows how to add, knows how to say: PLEASE and THANK YOU. She is great at sports, loves to paint and color, and KNOWS how to work CONSTRUCTION. You should see her work a mound of sand, rock, and concrete....AND like i said...she's only 5.

Now, next time you come to a public forum....all puffed up....acting like you're a superhero...here to save the day....KNOW what you're talking before your own admission screams: "I'm an IDIOT"!

Again, if you would like to learn some lessons.....U2U me....and i'll make sure i give you a few...if not many at one time! I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in killing 2 birds with one stone...and class is in session!

reply to post by CaDreamer


If he's a glutton and drunkard, you're not dealing with a 2 year old. You're dealing with someone who can be tried as an adult. Plus, the parent has to want this done bad enough to go and drag this offensive offspring to the elders to stone them.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

Yep, but you have to have had a history of a couple of those spankings to get the point across. Or at least a history of something that got the child's attention in a way that they don't want repeated. It could be sleeping alone in their room, or it could be a demoralizing lecture, or it could be whack with something.

The point is, the look works great, as long as it is backed up with some history. My kids are 4 years old, and 3 years old, and I don't think I have had to spank either one of them in at least 6 months. I have had to snatch them up quickly, and put my nose to their nose and ask if they want to continue ignoring me, and the answer is always, "no sir." And then I sit them down, talk calmly for a second or two, and they go about their business in the proper manner.

The spankings should be early, and rare, and timely. You never spank them for something you didn't catch them doing, and you never spank them if there is any other option, and if you do it when they are young and small, it doesn't have to be hard, and you won't have to worry about doing it later on in life. I highly doubt my 4 year old will ever need another spanking the rest of his life. He is a great kid, and lectures have begun to work better than spankings. He hates being made to sit still and listen and repeat back. He hates the words, "come here, we need to talk about this."

As for my 3 year old, he will need it until he is probably 25! He loves to cause trouble. But, spankings aren't very effective with him, so I am having to be more creative in his discipline, and I doubt he gets any more spankings either. He gets whatever he least expects, and that makes it effective. If he thinks he is getting a spanking, he might get a chore instead, or if he thinks he is getting a chore or a spanking, maybe he gets a time out. Then, when he least expects a spanking, he gets whapped with something to get his attention, LOL!

You sound like me. hahahahah That's how i deal with my kids. I don't 'spank' them. Like you said: that should come early in life...not when they're teenagers. By that point....you should more of a friend, than a parent. Parenting is for 'children'....not young adults.

It's funny how a couple 'isolated' cases, makes good parents look like child abusers. Then again, there IS an agenda to wipe away the family...so, i guess it's all going..."according to plan"!

Now, as to Spare the Rod, spoil the child:

In Hebrew, the verse could be translated: To withhold your mark of authority is to be hateful of your child/grandchild, but wisdom loves family by seeking early to correct.

In the Hebrew, this does not have to read like the beatings MUST commence, although the "your mark of authority" is a variant phrasing of on shepard's stick or sceptre.

In the Greek Septuigent, the verse could be translated: Who abstains this rod persues with hatred this son themselves, but moreover to be well pleased with him: diligently, carefully, chastise with words/blows.


So, either way: punish them early, punish them carefully. To not correct is being evil/wishing ill to/on your descendants.

Irrelevant of how hard you beat your kid, if your punishments are not consistent, they will do nothing. Cosnistency matters as much or more than method.

Parents who fight tooth and nail against spankings of any sort, and then turn around and yell at their kids all day long about them being worhtless? Those do far more psychological damage. Not that my mom was that type but I can tell you that me and my siblings were far more terrified of her getting mad enough to start yelling at us than our father spanking us for whatever we did. I'll take the beating any day, thank you--and not like I want that!

Besides, my pro-spanking family has always stated that spaking is only for the curbing of detrimental behavior that needs immediate dire reactions, and only works when they're young. By the time they are seven, a spanking is not going to work for most kids.

Oh, and for causing a child pain without leaving a mark or injuring them at all? Pressure points.

...i think a lot of folks got the "spare the rod, spoil the child" thing backwards... using your hand to pop your child's butt cheek once or twice isnt damaging but hitting them repetitively and/or using any kind of weapon is damaging and it programs them to accept a future where problems are solved via domination and violence...

Originally posted by nuttin4U

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by nuttin4U

Originally posted by pshea38
reply to post by ManOfGod267

 

You have no right to use any violence against another human being, except in self
defence. Why anyone would hit their child is beyond me. I have never once laid
a finger on my 9 year old son and we have a great relationship and love each
other very much. He is far from spoiled. If a parent cannot deal with any problems
regarding their child intellectually and without the use or threat of violence, then they should not
be a parent. How can anyone hit someone they love, and claim it is for the good?
No.No.No!! You have no right!

You have EVERY RIGHT. What you have no right to do, is tell me how to raise....MY CHILD! That's where the biggest problem is...people are worried about my house, and not their own. It's MY CHILD!!! What part don't you get? Like my momma always used to say...."I brought you into this world.....I'll take you out!"

I would love to know the ages of some of these, non-disciplining parents of today. 21 years old...with a baby, hardly makes you an adult. You're still trying to figure out your life...and you're gonna give the best to your child? ahahahah I doubt it!

You are plain ignorant, and i wouldn't let your type anywhere near my child. You don't own
another human being, be it your child or not. And if 21 year olds think like you say, they buy
and sell you in terms of decency and attitude. You think you know s**t.
You don't know s**t. If i saw you hitting a child in public, i would be very tempted to give
you a taste of your own medicine. Your type will probably make excuses for the despicables
of the horror story in the opening post. You are probably not far off them!

I would LOOOOOVE for you to give me a taste. AND, i'll even give you my address. Mr KEYBOARD WARRIOR! Come and pay me a visit....and i'll show YOU some discipline. U2U me, and i'll make that happen! Brave man!!!! You might want to bring back up...to make it a 'fair fight'. Then, i can show my daughters another lesson....how to beat your opponent to a pulp. Or at LEAST til they tap out! FEEL ME?

Now, onto a more dignified conversation with YOUR uninformed ass. No one ever said i hit my kids in public. Don't get it twisted. I don't NEED to hit my kids, because.......they already KNOW how to act. They already have discipline! Something that you, sir, lack! Someone should have washed your mouth out with soap....with all the shish you're talkin'!

And as for your other comments....you come here, talking about "horror story in the opening post" after you just threatened me? You sir, sound like the horror story; just 1 itch away from loosing it! You start off looking for a fight...and it's wiser to learn how to pick your battles!

Let me guess....you don't have kids...right?

Well, i'll clue you in. I do!!! I have 5 GIRLS..ages 17 - 5....all straight A students and top of their class. My 17 year old is in High School, and graduating with HONORS...and more than likely on her way to a rather prestigious UNIVERSITY (if she so chooses)! My 5 year old...is fluent in 2 languages....knows how to use a computer....knows how to add, knows how to say: PLEASE and THANK YOU. She is great at sports, loves to paint and color, and KNOWS how to work CONSTRUCTION. You should see her work a mound of sand, rock, and concrete....AND like i said...she's only 5.

Now, next time you come to a public forum....all puffed up....acting like you're a superhero...here to save the day....KNOW what you're talking before your own admission screams: "I'm an IDIOT"!

Again, if you would like to learn some lessons.....U2U me....and i'll make sure i give you a few...if not many at one time! I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in killing 2 birds with one stone...and class is in session!

Listen Nuttin4u. i have a child. i am approaching 40 and i don't agree with violence of
any sort, especially against children. The opening post is about a child being beaten
to death with an iron bar and the thought of it kills me (as i am sure it does you).
It is a charged issue and following quickly on the heels of the story in the OP, i saw red.
i didn't intend to attack you personally. i am sure you are a decent man and it sounds
like you have a beautiful family, of whom you are clearly and justifiably proud.
Please except my apologies.

i guess that if the topic in question was just to explore opinion on the merits or otherwise of
spanking a child as a form of disipline, i would have reacted differently, but with such a
disturbing story attached to the thread, i didn't feel it appropriate for anyone to be seen to
be justifying any sort of violence against children, as the extreme consequences of violent
discipline could be bitterly observed in the extreme case quoted. i had this horror in mind
when i responded and you obviously didn't, and were responding in a more general fashion
to the thread title. i have also had the deaths of the many hundreds of thousands of innocent
children killed in the contrived wars on terror on my mind lately.

i am sorry for offending you and apologise unreservedly.

i am no hero, and am far closer to being a nothing and a no-one.
i love you steve and i miss you.

If spanking worked, you'd only need to do it one time. Enough said.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Not true. and partially true.

For a parent that uses spanking, it is used very rarely. It does work, and there are long gaps between spankings, and as I said earlier, my oldest is 4 years old, and I doubt I will ever need to spank him again. It has worked wonderfully.

The thing is, nobody learns instantly. How many times have people tried to stop eating fatty foods, or cigarettes, or how many times have I had to threaten to fire someone for being late to work? People need repetition to learn. With spankings, the learning curve is much steeper, and it doesn't need repeated much at all. With words, it needs repeated repeatedly, and even then it isn't effective until they learn the hard way by ignoring the words and trying something stupid anyway.

You want to know the best way to get someone like me to burn themselves. Put a "Don't touch, HOT" sign on something. It is like a moth to a flame, I just have to know "exactly how hot is it I wonder?" And the next thing you know, I am cussing and blowing on my finger. I'm almost 40! Imagine being a 3 or 4 year old and craving life experience. They have to try everything at least a time or two!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Hey GetReady....
I respect you and get what you have to say. The thing is, sometimes its the parent that needs the time out to cool down and reflect and get perspective. I am a mom of three kids and know what it's like to be frustrated by toddlers...cuz lets face it....they do test you, but thankfully they grow out of their developmental stages of childhood. It's all a stage when you're dealing with little ones. In my experience, most of the time they are tired and cranky when they misbehave.

Trust me, my mother-in-law is a Southern Belle who clearly believes I have "spoiled" her grandaughter but you know what? My little girl is kind, compassionate and caring and emphathatic towards others. She's not a little Nellie Olson from "Little House On The Prairie".

The thing with physical discipline is that the parent needs to be sure to keep their strength in check, to not cross the line into losing it...you know what I'm saying? And that is the tricky part, because even us adults lose control and let our anger take that next step....and even words cross the line. Better to be safe than sorry and use a consistent method that doesn't harm, maim the physical body or the soul.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Spot On!


I have over-reacted before (not physically). I have also forgot to listen before, and disciplined them when they didn't deserve it whatsoever, it was just a misunderstanding. It makes you feel terrible, but it is just another learning tool for them and me both. I have no problem admitting to them when I am wrong, or when I have overreacted and why, and it is important that they learn conflict resolution and forgiveness also.

The adults absolutely must be in control of their faculties at all times, and always willing to walk away and think it over. Luckily, my wife and I are an "intact family" and there is that sounding board. We are never angry at the same time. I know it must be so much harder for single parents.

And although physical size and strength must be controlled, we also have to be ever aware of their emotions. I have noticed in my children that it isn't the physical pain, it is the fear and disappointment that really gets them. There are certain looks that I recognize in their faces, and I realize it is time to repair their ego, and make sure they know I love them. It is important to remember the discipline isn't a "punishment" but a training tool. It is never constructive to crush their ego and have them living in fear. They have to realize you love them, and you only react harshly to protect them. I always let them explain, and sometimes I even let them choose their own punishment (which they hate, LOL).

Themessage was certainly lost in the OP! How far off the mark can someone be, when they think it is ok to beat a kid to death for the kids own good? Where is the lesson in that.

Hell, even the Riddler in Batman knew better. "No, don't kill him, if you kill him, he won't learn nuthin!"

The OP is sickening, but it isn't reflective of most "spankings" or religions.

reply to post by nuttin4U


I don't have to resort to violence to control my child. The trick is consistency, which most parents lack. It is not about the type of discipline, it is about the skill.
I have never made a promise good or bad that i didnt keep. If I warned him to not do something, he got whisked away to a corner to do his time. And it was consisten every time.
ou also help them mature by giving them choices, the choices you give them. I want a treat, well you only get one, you want it now or later? This gives them decision making abilities at their level. if they choose now, they don't get it later no matter how much they beg.
Its not only about discipline, it is about competence for the child. You have to let them expand themselves, you just do the guiding.
It is about teaching them how to emotionally handle a situation, you teach them how to think things through, and you create emotional intelligence, they do just fine.

as for later, since I have talks with my child, and I explain choices and their repercussions, and he is understanding right from wrong, and also create a good relationship that he can trust, I don't have to worry about him running around behind my back.

Most of the kids who get into trouble come from dysfunctional homes, and dont let the kids rreach out to the parents. As much as the parents feel they dont do anything wrong. So teens are made to feel two ways, they can either trust their parents enough tot talk to them and accept them, or they can get into trouble and avoid consequences to avoid a physical repercussion. hhhmmmmm


Here is a very important piece of advice, children reflect the upbringing they receive. You treat them like cattle to be herderded or second rate citizens, that is how they learn to treat people, parents include, and don't care what their parents think when they are caught smoking dope.

you know, if more parents would spank or otherwise discipline their children instead of SPOILING them and giving empty threats when the act out, the juvie halls and jails might a little less CROWDED


Just saying...

reply to post by ManOfGod267


and the dad will be in jail, with big black men all around him. and the fists of those men will be divine justice.
i've been beaten as a child, and every time i see an adult beating a child, my blood races to my muscles... and the adult better run.

error please delete

reply to post by getreadyalready


reply to post by nuttin4U



As I have said before, as far as I am concerned the word "spanking" is just a politically correct way of saying "I hit someone smaller than I am and I'm proud of it." Sounds kinda like a bully to me.

Enjoy living in your delusion.

I taught my children that the stove is dangerous without any form of violence what so ever. I did not hit them, they did not get burned, but they learned that the stove was dangerous and to be careful around it. They learned this before the age of 1. hmmm interesting, how can someone under the age of 1 learn something without being hit? YOU spankers think about it and see if your smart enough to figure out how it can be done. Seems many parents just don't have the brains to figure out how to do that, so they fall back on hitting someone smaller than themselves.

What you hitters may fail to recognize is that the majority of criminals were "spanked" as children. Statistics show as high as 99% of criminals were spanked as children, leaving only 1% who were not spanked as criminals. That alone tells me that hitting young people does not HELP at all. Those who are actually taught in a loving way instead of traumatized by being hit by someone claiming to love them, go on to have a life which does not involve becoming a criminal.

Children who are spanked are shown to display: many emotional & social problems, impaired parent/child relationships, lower IQ, increased aggressiveness, behavior problems, learning problems, lower academic scores, antisocial behavior, depression problems, more likely to suffer from addictions & commit domestic abuse, prone to be angry and show less long term compliance. Not a single study shows ANY benefit that cannot be achieved from other non-violent forms of discipline

The US department of Health & Human services reports 142,000 children are seriously injured from Corporal punishment every year in this country, 18,000 of them are permanantly disabled. Between 1-2,000 children die each year in this country alone from Corporal punishment. Nearly 70% of child abuse cases in CPS agencies result from corporal punishment. The defense of "discipline" is raised in 41% of homicide prosecutions when parents "accidentally" kill their children. 99% of people in jail were corporally punished.

I want to repeat that last part 99% of people in jail were corporally punished

Spanking is the easy way out, to choose to hit instead of choosing to find another way to discipline your child is EASY, are you easy or are you smart?

One study identified toddlers one month after they had started walking unassisted and studied them again a month later. The sample, drawn from Lamaze classes, was middle class, with mothers at home. Among them, "Infants of physically punishing mothers showed the lowest levels of compliance and were most likely to manipulate breakable objects during the observations" (Power and Chapieski 1986, p. 273). Six months later, those who had been physically punished showed slower development as measured by the Bayley mental test scores. Read more: Juvenile Delinquency - Family Structure - Single Parent, Poverty, Theory, Development, Children, Homes, Parents, Broken, Parent, and Boys family.jrank.org...

My children were walking at seven months and eight months of age.

Similarly, spanking seems counterproductive for children preparing to enter school. Parents in three cities reported on family disciplinary practices over the prior year as they registered their children for kindergarten. The children were subsequently observed in their classrooms. Children spanked by their mothers or fathers displayed more angry, reactive aggression in the kindergarten classrooms than did those who did not receive physical punishments (Strassberg et al. 1994). Read more: Juvenile Delinquency - Family Structure - Single Parent, Poverty, Theory, Development, Children, Homes, Parents, Broken, Parent, and Boys family.jrank.org...

Long-term effects of corporal punishment have been identified in a study based on biweekly observation of 224 parents and their sons over an average period of five-and-one-half years. In addition to measuring the use of corporal punishment in the home, the researchers rated each parent in terms of warmth expressed toward the child. At the time of these ratings, the sons were between the ages of ten and sixteen. Thirty years later, the criminal records of the subjects were traced. Even after statistically controlling for paternal warmth, the father's use of corporal punishment predicted an increased likelihood that the son would subsequently be convicted for a serious crime. After statistically controlling for maternal warmth, the mother's use of corporal punishment predicted an increased likelihood that the son would subsequently be convicted for a serious crime of violence (McCord 1997a). Read more: Juvenile Delinquency - Family Structure - Single Parent, Poverty, Theory, Development, Children, Homes, Parents, Broken, Parent, and Boys family.jrank.org...

"Currently available data indicate that corporal punishment, as previously defined, when compared with other methods of punishment, of older children and adolescents is not effective and is associated with increased risk for dysfunction and aggression later in life." Read more: Juvenile Delinquency - Family Structure - Single Parent, Poverty, Theory, Development, Children, Homes, Parents, Broken, Parent, and Boys family.jrank.org...

I could keep posting statistic after statistic, and I suspect those who hit will continue to try and justify their position while refusing to deny ignorance. I only hope that at least one person who chooses to hit their child, will read these statistics, and change their parenting style.

reply to post by nuttin4U


Ok, Hollerin at ya... my children are 17 and already in university, and 13 and doing excellent. Both are far more respectful than those I see who get "spanked". Hows that working out for ya?


Harm None
Peace

i say if it is legal to spank bad kids then is should be legal to spank bad adults!!!

my children (now grown) feared my lectures more than my hand i learned that quickly. lectures with alt punishments Consistently applied works just as well it just takes a more diligent and dedicated parent.

example; once my 5 year old decided to throw a tantrum in a toy store, loud and embarrassing.i left the store full cart and all left behind. i then took her to the car straight away and went home, did not speak to her the entire drive home. it was a week before her birthday. her punishment, she had to wait til Christmas to get her birthday present. she never repeated her performance again. her B-day = nov 1st.

reply to post by amazed


Give it a few more years, and that statistic will be the other way around. Most of the delinqents of this generation have never been spanked, so when they go to jail for their illegal deeds, they'll change that demographic.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
reply to post by amazed

 

Give it a few more years, and that statistic will be the other way around. Most of the delinqents of this generation have never been spanked, so when they go to jail for their illegal deeds, they'll change that demographic.

So you and those who choose to hit somehow choose to believe what you have said. I suspect it helps hitters assuage their conscious over hitting people smaller than themselves.

99% of criminals were raised with spankings, that is the generation in prison now, and generations before and will most likely continue to be the statistics for all following generations. Violence begets violence, and no matter how "nice" of a word someone uses to describe hitting, it is still violence.

I never said to not discipline your children, discipline and hitting though do not go hand in hand.

If hitters can somehow convince themselves that hitting someone so much smaller than themselves is somehow a good thing, then they can live their lives without guilt. They can then even feel that they are doing a good thing when they choose to cause pain to another.

I know adults in their mid 20's and early 30's who were raised without being hit, and they are far more socially adept and emotionally stable than any of those I know of ANY age who were raised being hit.

I will NEVER understand how a grown person could ever convince themselves that hitting another person and even hitting someone they claim to love is a good thing.

Every hitter here, I challenge you to answer to only yourself the next two questions. When someone you love chooses to purposefully hurt you, either emotionally or physically, how do you then feel about that person and do you continue to respect someone who purposefully chooses to cause you pain? EVEN IF that person claims to be hurting you for your own benefit.

Pain short circuits the brain, stops learning and stops the critical thinking process. It does not teach someone how to make good healthy choices. Isn't that what we really want to teach our young ones? Or are we just going to force "obedience" upon them while complaining upon ATS about the inability of humanity to "think" and make critical decisions?

Seems like an oxymoron to me

I want you to be obedient and comply but dammit learn to think will ya? "smack"

and so many people go around complaining about violence as they spank their children

Harm None
Peace

I have never agreed with the spare the rod, spoil the child philosophy. I was spanked as child....and frankly sometimes got what I considered then, and do now, abusive type spankings with belts and brushes. I knew I would never spank my children, even when I was still a child.

I did time outs and guess what? Both of my children were well behaved...I never had problems with them in school, etc. In fact I was always complimented on how well behaved my children were/are.

Spanking just causes violence and resentment toward their parents and others. If you have children I would strongly recommend that you don't hit them under any circumstance.