reply to post by Thurisaz
"According to occult teachings the astral plane can be visited consciously through astral projection, meditation and mantra, near death experience,
lucid dreaming, or other means. Individuals that are trained in the use of the astral vehicle can separate their consciousness in the astral vehicle
from the physical body at will...."
"Trained"?? By whom? Are you with me yet?
Here's where I'm at regarding this subject-Strictly my opinion reached at this point by spending far too much time thinking deep thoughts on it,so
please take it in as such.
Everything I (we) know,about any subject,is what other people "teach" /convince us of thru theory,conjecture,opinion etc.,as well as personal
individual experiences and the understandings we try and gain from them. We have all been programmed since birth,and perhaps even in the womb,by the
thought,reasoning,opinion,practices,epiphanies etc,of someone other than ourself..some higher mind and greater philosophy. We are seekers of answers
by nature. We have an almost desperate desire(need)to have things,phenomena we don't fully comprehend or can't fully explain,make perfect sense to
us,so,in absence of that,we create our own truths based in great part on the explanations of other people,great and small alike.We continually look
outside ourselves for validation,corroboration..It makes it easier to live in our skin,and mind. 'This HAS to make sense! I saw it,"felt" it..but,I
was asleep(unconscious),so...I can't really be sure it really happened. Has it ever happened to you? Yea? Awesome! I think we're on to something!'
Then there follows the exchanging of recommendations to reading materials,exercises that are said to work to help us develop further our so-called
"gift" and the sharing of experiences and thoughts on just what it was THAT happened,IS happening,and what it all means for us. It perpetuates itself
nicely and is an endless loop.
The assertion by many that there is an astral plane that we can visit at will or by accident is a very old idea,a concept,and more and more I see it
as just that..an idea and concept,much like the Christian concept of a scary threatening godhead and his counterpart a big scheming devil and a heaven
or a hell as an afterlife destination.
Religion,every single one,works to convince us that there is more to our reality than what can be seen,and that if we live according to a set of
rules of conduct presumably set forth BY this god,we can expect our eternal soul to kick back in greener pastures with it's buddies who were also
'good' while they were in their meat suits,or if we ignore the rules of conduct and thought we can expect to flop around in some state of purgatory
all alone and going nowhere,or,the other alternative-an absolute destination designed to punish us where we wail and moan and "burn" in unending
We are fed a set of ideas. We don't want to believe that this one life,this one plane-the material-is really all there is,and that once bodily
function ceases for us,we cease to exist and there ain't no commin' back except in photographs and in the memory of others,or in books,ballads and
hymns if we made our time here noticed by enough people by our actions.
We are remarkable creatures,we humans. Our minds are so powerful,our faith so monumental and stubborn. If we believe in a thing,with every fiber of
our being,then it becomes fact,real,and takes on a life of it's own. It controls us completely once we reach that level of dedication to it. It binds
us so tightly that our conviction is that OUR belief is the only true belief and anyone who believes differently than we do,is wrong,and in some
extremist cases,must die.
If I ask anyone,of any religious faith,what they believe,they will parrot what they have been told they should believe,which comes from source
materials,in books,written by men. Or women in some cases,but mere mortals with an agenda in every case. Religion is dangerous,but not near as
dangerous as those who put all their faith in it as an absolute and trust in it blindly. I feel the same about this belief in the 7 planes of
existence and the goal of trying to reach any but the one we are standing on right now. If you grab onto it too tightly,everything else fades back and
all hope of working toward other things is lost. It will consume us,just like any form of zealotry will. And I suppose that my feeling this way is why
I am not religious or on fire for anything along these lines,be it the search for god or a higher plane of being. But to each his own.
So to address your OP,no,I do not think that there are swirling "ghosts"-the restless unascended souls of the dead-just waiting for us to drop our
guard so they can steal our body from us and get back to the unfinished business of living and I don't believe the floaty little orbs only seen on bad
camera shots are any kind of proof of anything,at all,ever. The very idea is laughable in my opinion. Do I believe that there are energies that cannot
be seen,but can be felt and 'worked' with to achieve an end to our means? Yes,absolutely. And these energies have nothing to do with anything outside
what naturally occurs and is intrinsic to the planet and the universe.
What are your thoughts? Can you change my perspective,show me a different possibility somehow?
Logic rules the day for me anymore I'm afraid.
edit on 24-8-2011 by Qouth The Raven because: spellcheck