If The Rebels Do Win, Libya Will Be A Puppet State As It Once Was

Did you know? during the 1950s long before gaddafi came in power that kingdom of libya was a Puppet State to America and Britain? america had several military bases in and around Libya with the thanks of the puppet king Idrs, King Idrs didn't care for the middle class people of Libya or the poor families of libya, the living conditions were unlivable.


Rich libyans worked at the hotels, and some of them worked with American military personal at the bases around tripoli.

Oil was discovered in Libya in 1959, and what had been one of the world's poorest countries became extremely wealthy. The United States enjoyed a generally warm relationship with Libya and pursued policies centered on interests in operations at Wheelus Air Base and the considerable U.S. oil interests. In September 1969 King Idris I was overthrown by Muammar al-Gaddafi. Gaddafi demanded that Wheelus, which he saw as a vestige of European colonialism, be closed and its facilities turned over to the Libyan government. While the U.S. wished to retain Wheelus Air Base, the strategic value of the facility had declined with the development of nuclear missiles that had effectively replaced many bomber bases. Indeed, Wheelus had primarily served as a tactical fighter training facility in the 1960s. The Wheelus base agreement had just two more years to run, and in December 1969, the U.S. agreed to vacate the facility by June 1970.

Gaddafi was correct on the basis that the base was part of colonialism or more like control rather then colonialism,

Although the king died in exile and most Libyans were born after his reign, during the current 2011 Libyan uprising, many demonstrators opposing Colonel Gadaffi use the old tricolour flag of the monarchy and carry portraits of the king, especially in the traditional Sanussi stronghold of Cyrenaica.[6]

hm i guess the rebel terrorists don't mind been puppets to the west?


from presstv
Source

Britain, France and the United States have dispatched hundreds of military advisors to Libya to set up military bases in the country's oil-rich east, reports say.

No countries after manufactured revolutions aren't freed they are all then controlled by the CFR,IMF and the globalists spreading westernization agenda.

Is Iraq now free no it isn't, so i have to ask where the heck is America getting the money to do all this? if America is in debt how can they supply there own western paid mercenaries if America is in debt.


I read an article on the CFR web site where this analyst claims if the opposition in Libya do win obama will have his own statue in tripoli, maybe the rebels can have obama if they want him.


I don't know what kind sick game CIA,MI5 or the elites are planning but in my view all points lead to iran and the complete finish of Russia encirclement in the region, weakening russia and china.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


For centauries Libya was ruled by the Ottoman Empire then in the early 20th century the Italians took control for a while then after WWII the UN announced in 1951 that Libya was an independent state led by a constitutional monarchy. This I think was the first time in the history of the Libyan state that they had independence, which probably is why some Libyans are calling for a return to the monarchy. In 1959 they found oil and that’s when American and Brittan showed up looking to exploit the money. I don’t know the details but I would imagine that events would have been similar to that of the monarch of Iran, oil meant money for the ruling monarchy and the people got annoyed. The result 1969 coup, but under Gaddafi the oil still got out and was exploited.

Now off course when the rebels eventually over though Gaddafi they are going to open up the doors to foreign investment, mostly American, French and British, deals will be cut, rich will get richer and all the poor Libyan will probably be back to square one under the illusion he has moved forward. Is this evidence of a conspiracy however, that is the question.

The answer I think is no exactly, if this had happened independent of the Arab Spring I would be the first to start asking a few probing questions but it’s not. When looked in the contest of the Arab Spring the involvement of a foreign intelligence service in planning the protests becomes less and less likely. There is no clear motive, there are clear disadvantages to the west in such move and I don’t think they have the ability to conduct such a vast covert operation against so many states at once at a time when they are already stretched. I can see no evidence that the American government in partnership with the British have deliberately started this uprising in Libya.

The disadvantages of the Arab Spring for the west are plentiful. First of all the price of oil has sky rocketed, the western economy is driven by the black gold and with a already fragile western economy causing instability in the Middle East puts that economy at greater risk. There is also the risk of spreading and straitening radical islamist groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt or Al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen. It would be a national security nightmare if one of these groups where to emerge as the leader of the aforementioned states. There is also the risk of the plan becoming exposed, first of all it would create a diplomatic catastrophe every Middle Eastern state would be expelling American Ambassadors from their countries. In addition to this it would be the biggest possible propaganda victory for the terrorists and in addition to this some might even see it as a declaration of war. I also k now that in Brittan the involvement of the military is a very sensitive issue, wars are not good at boosting your position in the poles. I could go on but I think you get the idea.

However, that is not to say they will not benefited from this and will do when it comes to an end but those benefits are outweighed by the risk. I think the real conspiracy is that they are taking advantage of this situation as it has been presented to them.

Also, not to nick-pick but at the end you said you thought MI5 where involved, even if you were right it would not be MI5 that would be involved but SIS.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I can see no evidence that the American government in partnership with the British have deliberately started this uprising in Libya.

actually there is.

started this uprising in Libya.

America did started this uprising in Libya, not only Libya only but Egypt, the National Endowment for Democracy is known for meddling in affairs of other countries strongly supported by the government.

source

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


To me that is not proof that is some link forma bias conspiracy website that is bias towards the “NWO is behind everything in the world because it’s evil” side of the argument. Sorry I know this may shock but I don’t get any of my sources form conspiracy sites as I feel they fuel ignorance.

I did read it though, don’t really think much of it, didn’t address any of the points that I raised as to why the British and Americans would avoid such covert action.

If you chose yourself to believe that “the CIA, MI5 or the elites” are behind the Arab Spring I am not going to stop you. I am just here to give you the other side of the argument so you can at least have an informed belief. When I balance the evidence it is clear to me that the Arab Spring is a organic movement if you’re seeing something else that is fine, just don’t expect me to agree with you or change my views unless you have something concrete that tips those scales.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

When I balance the evidence it is clear to me that the Arab Spring is a organic movement

Arab Spring is a organic movement? not in a million years, were the revolutions in eastern Europe organic? no they weren't, as time passed these revolutions only helped to create pro western countries and there western agenda in the region,in steps of blocking Russia.


Its obvious your a disinformation agent

That is bias towards the “NWO is behind everything in the world because it’s evil”

And in your view the rebel terrorists as sunny and rainbows over there , its pretty much you got a closet minded on view of the world with a neo con,pro western point of view, just look at Europe what did revolutions brought them? nothing but misery and higher unemployment rates.

This would be an extremely helpful thing. Not only would the people of Libya have a far better existence being in a puppet government but we would also get another stronghold in the region.

I fail to see the downside to this unless your Ghaddafi.

reply to post by kro32


I have warned you not to reply to my threads if you don't like my views?

I fail to see the downside to this unless your Ghaddafi.

if i was, i would have a millions of dollars in my pocket about now.

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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Sorry but it's not your thread. Once you hit that post button it becomes the property of ATS

Back to the topic at hand. Why do you believe a puppet government would be bad for the people of Libya? They would be under our protection so another Ghaddafi could not gain power and terrorize their nation anymore plus they would benefit economically as companies would be more likely to set up shop there.

reply to post by kro32

Why do you believe a puppet government would be bad for the people of Libya?

Have you looked at the EU Union recently? or Iraq. A puppet government only Sevres the interests of the western governments and there national interests of oil, money,power.


All European Union countries act as puppet states, in the military there are terms for its called political encirclement of course also a military encirclement on Russia with the missile shields program, that missile shield isn't meant to protect Europe from iran or north korea the missiles are aimed at russia.

Now for those who believe that ousting Gadhaffi is a good thing, why don't you do some research on what was happening. Even with UN sanctions. All you use to form your opinion is what they tell you here.

Under Gadhaffi the people had:
free education up to and including university
every person had a home
every graduate would get an income until they found work
created the Great Man-Made river to bring fresh water to the desert for agriculture
nationalized resources and the international corporations had to pay big to operate there

The standard of living in Libya was recognized by the African Union and the UN as the highest in Africa, more so that South Africa. The UN was going to present Gadhaffi with an award for these achievements.

If Your Country becomes a puppet state, your allowing nation to host American forces and there bases, there are well over 1,000 bases that America has in the world.

Just to point that here.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


You left out the public hangings and televised executions. He also totally redid the tribal boundries that had been set up by the people because he believed it interfered with his reign.

Meanwhile, Gaddafi and the RCC had disbanded the Sanusi order and officially downgraded its historical role in achieving Libya's independence. He also attacked regional and tribal differences as obstructions in the path of social advancement and Arab unity, dismissing traditional leaders and drawing administrative boundaries across tribal groupings.

But his takevover didn't stop with the tribes:

The press, already subject to censorship, was officially conscripted in 1972 as an agent of the revolution. Italians and what remained of the Jewish community were expelled from the country and their property confiscated in October 1970.

He also has no problem going to war over stupid things simply because he can:

As early as 1969, Gaddafi waged a campaign against Chad. Part of his hostility was apparently because [[President of Chat|Chadian President François Tombalbaye was a black African and a Christian.

So the people of Libya will certainly have more freedom under European or American rule. This man has got to go.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by kro32


As always wrong again.
Libya will be a puppet state as it was once before, you just hate Gaddafi progress and what kind of improvements he helped libya, once this war is all over you will disappear as it never even happened.

And you believe that what improvements he made justify's the abuse he's brought to the people of Libya where I don't.

Long story short: The west just wants Libya's oil.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Neither the EU nor Iraq are a suitable analogy for Libya

Many of the benefits you have correctly identified with the Libyan regime under Gaddafi come from his Socialist ideology, out lined in his “Green Book” he also wrote in it that

“Women, like men, are human beings. This is an incontestable truth… Women are different from men in form because they are females, just as all females in the kingdom of plants and animals differ from the male of their species… According to gynecologists women, unlike men, menstruate each month… Since men cannot be impregnated they do not experience the ailments that women do. She breastfeeds for nearly two years.”

Why is only known to him, he had children study this document for two hours each week and this is what he included in his philosophical outline of his political ideology, he was not called the Mad Dog of the Middle East for nothing. It was not even a unique political ideology he just mashed socialism and Islam together, wrote down some rubbish and the result was his green book.

Under his leader ship their where some good points, but then again if you look at the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin you will probably see similar “good points”, that does not make him a “good guy”.

One of the first things Gaddafi done when he came to power was start a war against Chad apparently because he disapproved of a Black African Christian president. He also had a pointless war against Eygpt, a second war with Chad, attempted to gain a nuclear bomb, has a stalk pile of mustard gas and was a state sponsor of terrorism for quite some time.

Speaking of terrorism, Gaddafi was a major sponsor of Irish republican groups, anti-zaniest groups such as the Black September, movement and as well as sponsoring the PLO, FARC and MILF. During the 1980’s Gaddafi’s government where behind a number of high profile terrorist attacks such as, the 1985 Rome and Vienna Airport attacks, the shootings in London that killed a police woman and wounded others, then there was the 1992 bombing of Pan Am 103. And all before I get into his human rights volitions.

For example do you know that currently he is being inedited by the UN for supplying Viagra to troops for the propose off rapping women to install fear in the public after the uprising and for crimes against humanity for ordering the murder of his own people. There is also a call for an investigation into the 1996 Abu Salim massacre that killed 1200 protesters. Other human rights violations include the issuing of assassination bounties for his critics around the world, he refused to teach foreign languages as part of the school curriculum to “keep people ignorant”, the use of torture against political opponents and to top it all of public executions. In short Gaddafi is not the nice guy you are trying to make him out to be.

The real conspiracy here is why it took us so long to intervene, in 1992 NATO should have destroyed him we missed an opportunity. Then in the early 2000’s we should not have cuddled up to for oil deals. That being said however the revolution and the resulting civil war has not been the result of direct western intervention, it was a organic movement spawned of the Arab spring. The intervention by the west only came when it became clear that Gaddafi was slaughtering his own people, had we not intervened Benghazi would have became a blood bath.


I also want to address a couple of your other posts.

It’s obvious you’re a disinformation agent

Could you explain that to me, do you honestly believe that I am being paid to supply you with “disinformation” trust me mate you’re not important enough for me or anyone else to bother feeding you personally with “disinformation”. I can respect your opinion without reducing myself to such wild accusations I think you should show me and others that are taking the time to discuss your thread with you the same respect.

Your overall posting style is really aggressive and some decorum would be nice to continue with a civil discussion of the matter, I would echo Maria’s comments but I also think that stopping to such juvenile comments such as this and “I have told you not to comment on my threads” only demonstrates your intellectual inability to construct a logical and articulate counter argument. There is no need for it, I feel you owe us both an apology, but I won’t hold my breath.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


It’s obvious what your trying to do here, so please if dont like it stop replying in it.

Libya will be a puppet state whatever you like it or not.

I feel you owe us both an apology, but I won’t hold my breath.

to whom should i apology? i already pmed the mods about you and kro32 grudge agaisnt me for my difference in political standings i think you owe me an apology for behaving in the thread like a disinformation agent just beacuse its tilted.

If The Rebels Do Win, Libya Will Be A Puppet State As It Once Was

For example do you know that currently he is being inedited by the UN for supplying Viagra to troops for the propose off rapping women to install fear in the public after the uprising and for crimes against humanity for ordering the murder of his own people.

Sorry to burst your bobble but that has been proven false and there hasn't been any credible evidence to support the Viagra story, if you haven't noticed that has been already discussed to death by ATS members since the start of Feb 17.

The rumors of the rape pills were started by CNN at the early start of the war, not very credible.

Speaking of terrorism, Gaddafi was a major sponsor of Irish republican groups, anti-zaniest groups such as the Black September, movement and as well as sponsoring the PLO, FARC and MILF. During the 1980’s Gaddafi’s government where behind a number of high profile terrorist attacks such as, the 1985 Rome and Vienna Airport attacks, the shootings in London that killed a police woman and wounded others, then there was the 1992 bombing of Pan Am 103. And all before I get into his human rights volitions.

Since 2001 Gaddafi provided america with Intel on terrorists in Asia look it up, as for your claims on these

terrorist attacks such as, the 1985 Rome and Vienna Airport attacks, the shootings in London that killed a police woman and wounded others, then there was the 1992 bombing of Pan Am 103.

There is no evidence to claim that libya had any role in them other then you got that from the mainstream news, how uncredible

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Your argument is predominately is built on the idea that everything that the MSN say’s is a lie and your alternative media is always correct. That simply cannot be true, sure there may be many examples where the MSN could be found lying or being misinformed but that is not always the case. Why is that your sources are all reasonable yet all of mine are liars who are “in on it”.

The fact Gaddafi is a bad guy, and bad guy’s deserve to be naturalised so as they are no longer a danger to their fellow man. I agree with you that once this is all over Libya will become another puppet state of the west, however that does not mean that the Arab spring was the brainchild of western intelligence services.

I understand that you are passionate about your beliefs however that is not an excuse for attempting to bully other members and increate them with the moderation staff just because they do not agree with you. I can respect your beliefs without resorting to accusations, insults and running the moderation staff I would appreciate it if you could show me and other members the same respect. This is the first time I think I have ever commented on one of your threads, I have only been here a few months and this is the first time I have experienced this aggressive posting style, all you are going to achieve is alienating your fellow members. I don’t know if this is a age thing, if you’ve woke up on the wrong side or you had some cold coffee but whatever it is please change your attitude when responding to my posts.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Arab spring was the brainchild of western intelligence services.

actually they were just like those colored revolutions in Europe were part of the western agenda.

That simply cannot be true, sure there may be many examples where the MSN could be found lying or being misinformed but that is not always the case.

The MSM lied about the first gulf war, lied about the Bosnian conflict, lied about the second gulf war in 2003


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