Originally posted by Vs Vortex
the bible sez god created the earth in 6 days. even if we can agree that god's timing is not our own. how might we agree upon when and what god's timing is?
you see where i am going with this?
if the bible were any-other book, you would read it with more objectivity.
since you nor i, were hanging out in the garden 'talking with god', neither of us may know with 100% accuracy what happened and how....

No one even knows if any of it happened.

That is why the Church does not recognize the Book of Noah as being canon. It doesn't go with what they want the bible to be.

And not all the bible, especially its stories, are parables. Most of them are to be taken at face value.

The problem with Genesis, though, is that it is based on earlier Chaldean (Sumerian) works... what is Hebrew doctrine, and what isn't?

Always glad to share my mask with a talented writer that commands attention and introduces challenging twists on preconceived ideas.

Recommendation: If you don't believe something or you are not saying what you mean, then perhaps it is better to say "You decide what happened" rather than take the tone of "Did X sleep with your mother? Sure did!" Yes, when you say things that way, it indicates you believe all that.

For the record nothing in Genesis really happened the way the "Holy" Bible tells it. It's mythology. Every culture has it, be it Heathen, Egyptian, ancient Roman or Greek, native American or Maori. Sometimes obsessing over the fiction can lead one to distraction.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

For the record nothing in Genesis really happened the way the "Holy" Bible tells it. It's mythology. Every culture has it, be it Heathen, Egyptian, ancient Roman or Greek, native American or Maori. Sometimes obsessing over the fiction can lead one to distraction.

You don't know that, you can't prove that.....any more than Christians can prove it all really happened! It's opinion both ways....

Originally posted by LadyV
You don't know that, you can't prove that.....any more than Christians can prove it all really happened! It's opinion both ways....

You can prove that it did happen, in what MA mentioned. Read sources other than the Hebrew Bible.

I am sorry that so many people in the world are infused with blind dogma at an impressionable age.

I can and do know it. I have no need to prove it. Much of the Old Testament is the work of a few, with the intention of creating some moral code based on fear and oppression and lies.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
I can and do know it. I have no need to prove it. Much of the Old Testament is the work of a few, with the intention of creating some moral code based on fear and oppression and lies.

I hold out the Good Book, a goad to thee, and thump it in testimony to Jeeeezus!

Thou hast blasphemed against the Loword! Oh foul blasphemer! I call down upon thee the immortal wrath of Gawd, and condemn thee forthwith to Hayell!

Sorry, I've always wanted to condemn someone to Hell. Nothing personal.

Even the most well-meaning soul can do evil in the name of good. To assume the throne of God and judge others on the basis of the declarations of man is such a case. It is evil, plain and simple, to do so.

The Truth is not contained in any one book, nor in all the books ever written by man. That's because the Truth is God, and God cannot be contained in a book.

i agree. can't put God in a box for sure!
i tend to stay close to the sumerian version of creation. i like quantum physics as well.
God is not some character in a book.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Recommendation: If you don't believe something or you are not saying what you mean, then perhaps it is better to say "You decide what happened" rather than take the tone of "Did X sleep with your mother? Sure did!" Yes, when you say things that way, it indicates you believe all that.

Always willing to take on recommendations

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
For the record nothing in Genesis really happened the way the "Holy" Bible tells it.

I am also very willing to find out what really did happen *obviously*, care to tell?

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
It's mythology. Every culture has it, be it Heathen, Egyptian, ancient Roman or Greek, native American or Maori. Sometimes obsessing over the fiction can lead one to distraction.

What is the difference between fiction and non-fiction? I could read something that is labelled by a particular author as 'non-fiction' and dismiss it all as fiction, that is my choice, my opinion on someone elses truths OR I could research what is written before dismissing someone elses written word. So how did you come to dismiss the bible as mythology?








[edit on 8/18/04 by magestica]

Labelling a written work as mythology is not dismissing it.

Mythology is an important aspect of culture and mythology is an important genre of literature.

Creation mythology as a subset of mythology is one of the most important influences on culture and religious practices. The Book Of Genesis is one of the prime examples of creation mythology, having been adopted in some way by 2 billion plus Christians alive today. Gospels written for the new Testmant have more historical backing than the "Word" communicated to Moses, purported author of Genesis.

Critique, analyze, always - dismiss summarily, no. That would be equally dogmatic to blind subservient acceptance.

2nd Peter 3:8 ONE DAY WITH THE LORD IS AS 1000 YEARS, 6 days = 6000 years.....

Gen 3:3 ...the woman said, the serpent "BEGUILED" me... Beguiled translates to (TO SEDUCE) hebrew word "Nasha"

2nd Corinth 11:3 ...as the Serpent "BEGUILED" Eve... Beguiled translates to (TO SEDUCE WHOLLY) greek word "Exapatao"

Eve slept with SATAN the MAN in the garden and she slept with Adam and bore twins, twins of different fathers...

TheIndependentJournal

I have often wondered about that.

If indeed Satan and Eve were more than just "friends", then that would explain a lot of things, as well as make the Story of Creation possibly the oldest written example of how an old boyfriend can really mess up a relationship.

It would also explain things like Pauly Shore and trial lawyers associations.


Edit: My dog ate my title.

[edit on 8/19/2004 by Majic]

Lame women, no ethical standards. They would # murders, unethical men.

I bet you arabs are decentants of the snake.

Look at where EDEN was. Middle east.
Eve commited adultery with the snake the bitch,the whore..Created arabs
Eve and adam created the seed of adam. The race was mixed with each other for thousands of years. God then went looking for the seed of adam, found them in egypt 'jews'. Lead them to israel, ever since the cain seed, seed of satan has been aggressive to them.

Seed of satan wants to have a war with seed of adam?

Europeans, americans, jews? same race? seed of adam?

Just offering my opinion, but I agree with Mags on this one. Much of the bible is parable and since the ancient text were translated by King James' scholars to suit his taste, I think we probably read a lot of interpretation that is subjective to him.

It certainly makes no sense to think a piece of fruit actually possessed such doom. More than likely, I think Lucifer did Seduce Eve with the knowledge of carnal nature of which she then related to adam.

As for Cain being the forefather of Arabs, I have no idea. I think where we first see the beginnings of the Arab/ Muslim race/religion is with Abraham who, thinking his wife was sterile, impregnated his servant, Hagar who had his child. It was soon after that conception that he learned his wife was pregnant and also bore his legitimate child to whom inherited his kingdom. The child he bore with Hagar began life in resentment of this fact which carries on today. I'm no biblical scholar but I have access to one who is and thats their theory. I don't advocate it, just pass it on for what its worth.

The entire genesis is telling and making you believe that sex started all the evil in the world in other words once you have sex you become knowledgeable and susceptible to sin.

That is my interpretation, We all sinners and going to hell for having sex

Now why the women was seduce first not by man but by a serpent, it could be that all alone men has seen women as holding the power that her sex brings and while men can not control it women can, making her evil in the eyes of men.

This is my interpretation through the eyes of a woman. Tired of been blame of the exodus of the garden of Eden for eating the forbidden fruit, yeah I tell you what fruit we ate.

Originally posted by magestica

Originally posted by Nygdan
So before revelations the serpent was supposed to be what then? Why must this mean that the serpent in the garden is the devil? Why can't it merely be some one saying 'that old serpent, that dragon'? I mean, by similar reasoning, it also means that the serpent in the garden of eden was a dragon.

Before Revelation, in Genesis, the Serpent was Satan.

Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

This seems to indicate that the serpent is not satan but rather another animal that god created inside the garden. I understand that I am not obligated to accept your reading, I didn't think that I was. I have read the bible and I just don't see the textual connection, I am not saying you are 'wrong' or anything like that, I just want to see if the interpretation that convinces some people can convince me.

How can what I've posted make any less sense than Eve talking to a snake and eating an apple from a tree where she gains all this knowledge of good and evil? Since when does fruit make any of us wise to what is good and evil?

Wow, first of all I must congradulate you for such an interesting topic of discussion and for your creative interpretation.

However, its hard for me to agree with you on this. The reason being, religion requires faith. You said yourself that you dont believe this story that you came up with, thats just your own interpritation of it. Tho the story of a serpent seducing eve into eating an apple that makes her aware of good and evil sounds really farfetched, that is what we believe happend. We have faith in that story. Many things in the bible are compleatly out there by todays standards, and we may never know weither or not these things truly happend, but we believe it to be, that is our faith. Most religions require you to let go of possiblilitys, probabilitys (spell), the possible, or the impossible. I mean, thats what a miricle is all about. If you have faith in what you believe, and you believe these things to be true, than to you they are. Everyone is diffrent tho, and have diffrent beliefs.