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Originally posted by m1991
On a serious note, if you think the US government is not "evil enough" to do something like 9/11, remember back in the early 1960s Operation Northwoods was going to plan a bunch of terror attacks and blame them on Cuba.
Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by esdad71
Really digging deep to discredit my interest here aren't you, minor point you're making and you come off as pedantic. Please stay focused and contribute something other than attempting to question my integrity/knowledge about your 9/11 theories.
Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by pshea38
There is no video fakery, if you subscribe/watch the 'fakery' then you are a youtube video commentator. Sorry but anyone that looks at 'faked' videos of 9/11 has far too much, loads of space to explore the real videos, they provide enough.
Originally posted by psyop911
frank de martini?
Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by pshea38
There is no video fakery, if you subscribe/watch the 'fakery' then you are a youtube video commentator. Sorry but anyone that looks at 'faked' videos of 9/11 has far too much, loads of space to explore the real videos, they provide enough.
Originally posted by pshea38
Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by pshea38
Thank you so much. I will definitely look into those links. And you're right, I really just want to find out what happened, I don't find the arguments that support the OS to be compelling in any sense, it seems very fabriacted to me. Thanks again and I will certainly look into it. Cheers
No problem. I think you will find your worldview transformed.
Just a drop in the ocean of clear evidence of video fakery:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8ee638e4c766.jpg[/atsimg]
Good luck Sir. Don't let it Slide
Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Originally posted by pshea38
Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by pshea38
Thank you so much. I will definitely look into those links. And you're right, I really just want to find out what happened, I don't find the arguments that support the OS to be compelling in any sense, it seems very fabriacted to me. Thanks again and I will certainly look into it. Cheers
No problem. I think you will find your worldview transformed.
Just a drop in the ocean of clear evidence of video fakery:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8ee638e4c766.jpg[/atsimg]
Good luck Sir. Don't let it Slide
Seriously? Try telling the thousands of eyewitnesses this image is fake.
Done with this thread. Simply disgusting.
Oh and one more thing: We were attacked by Middle Eastern militants. That's what happened. Stop trying to look into something that isn't there. You really want to waste your life going after something silly and well...delusional?edit on 15-8-2011 by SeventhSeal because: (no reason given)
Seriously? Try telling the thousands of eyewitnesses this image is fake.
Done with this thread. Simply disgusting.
Oh and one more thing: We were attacked by Middle Eastern militants. That's what happened. Stop trying to look into something that isn't there. You really want to waste your life going after something silly and well...delusional?
Statements by Engineers
Engineers who participated in the design of the World Trade Center have stated, since the attack, that the Towers were designed to withstand jetliner collisions. For example, Leslie Robertson, who is featured on many documentaries about the attack, said he "designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it." 2 Statements and documents predating the attack indicate that engineers considered the effects of not only of jetliner impacts, but also of ensuing fires.
John Skilling
John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8.
Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.
The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact. 4
The Richard Roth Telegram
On Feburary 13, 1965, real estate baron Lawrence Wien called reporters to his office to charge that the design of the Twin Towers was structurally unsound. Many suspected that his allegation was motivated by a desire to derail the planned World Trade Center skyscrapers to protect the value of his extensive holdings, which included the Empire State Building. In response to the charge, Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, the architectural firm that was designing the Twin Towers, fired back with a three-page telegram containing the following details. 5
THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OUT BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
...
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209' DEEP, THE TOWERS ARE ACTUALLY FAR LESS DARING STRUCTURALLY THAN A CONVENTIONAL BUILDING SUCH AS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WHERE THE SPINE OR BRACED AREA OF THE BUILDING IS FAR SMALLER IN RELATION TO ITS HEIGHT.
...
5. THE BUILDING AS DESIGNED IS SIXTEEN TIMES STIFFER THAN A CONVENTIONAL STRUCTURE. THE DESIGN CONCEPT IS SO SOUND THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BE ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE IN HIS DESIGN WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE ECONOMICS OF THE STRUCTURE. ...
At the time the Twin Towers were built, the design approach of moving the support columns to the perimeter and the core, thereby creating large expanses of unobstructed floor space, was relatively new, and unique for a skyscraper. However, that approach is commonplace in contemporary skyscrapers.
Frank Demartini's Statement
Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.
The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, has been missing since the 9/11/01 attack, having remained in the North Tower to assist in the evacuation. 6 Demartini had first worked at World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the truck bombing in 1993.
Leslie Earl Robertson (born 1928) was one of the chief structural engineers of the World Trade Center in New York, which was destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks and was responsible for the design of the buildings' sway-reduction features. He has since been structural engineer on numerous other projects, including the Shanghai World Financial Center and the Bank of China Tower in Hong Kong.
John Skilling (October 8, 1921, Los Angeles, California – March 5, 1998, Seattle, Washington) was a civil engineer and architect, best known for being the chief structural engineer of the World Trade Center.
Design Claims
Worthington, Skilling, Helle & Jackson White Paper
A white paper on the structure of the Twin Towers carried out by the firm of Worthington, Skilling, Helle & Jackson contained eleven numbered points, including:
3. The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707-DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.
--City in the Sky, p 131
Glanz and Lipton summarize the findings of the white paper:
The Vierendeel trusses would be so effective, according to the engineers' calculations, that all the columns on one side of a tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and several columns on the adjacent sides, and the tower would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind.
--City in the Sky, p 133
On February 13th, 1975, just two years after completion, a building custodian working at the North Tower of the World Trade Center set a fire on the 11th floor which spread to areas of the 6 floors above it, and had raged for 3 hours. The New York Times reported that "flames could be seen pouring out of the 11th-floor windows" on the North Tower's East side, but said that damage to the core structure of the tower was "apparently confined to electrical wiring." It took 132 firefighters [16 were treated for smoke inhalation] with 24 pieces of firefighting equipment to battle this blaze. According to Capt. Harold Kull of Engine Co. 6, "It was like fighting a blowtorch." This event prompted the owners of the complex to fit the towers with sprinkler systems.
Frank DeMartini died on September 11th a hero. After accompanying his wife down 88 flights of stairs from his office in the North Tower, he went back up with fellow WTC worker Pablo Ortiz and rescued over 70 people. DeMartini and Ortiz - both 49 years of age - perished in the collapse of the North Tower.
Oh and one more thing: We were attacked by Middle Eastern militants. That's what happened. Stop trying to look into something that isn't there. You really want to waste your life going after something silly and well...delusional?edit on 15-8-2011 by SeventhSeal because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by sir_slide
Do you flat out believe the official story for 9/11? Do you believe there is no evidence to support any other theory?
Mohamed Atta (one of the main hijackers) was a coc aine snorting, vodka drinking hedonist who spent much of his time prior to the attacks motor boating strippers and doing lines of coke off them. He had even gone into the world trade center building completely out of his mind demanding blue prints for the building and generally acting deliberately suspicious. Few problems here. Extremist Muslims, especially martyrs are likely by definition to be incredibly religious, well needless to say Atta's behavior does not seem to fit here, it seems more like the behavior of a deranged hedonist. This doesn't fit.
The hole that was left in the side of the pentagon. We are told that without a doubt, a Boeing 757 slammed into the pentagon. Well sorry but the hole is absolutely tiny and anyone who payed attention can clearly see that a Boeing 757 would make a far larger hole, and there would also be a great deal of debris laying about. Donald Rumsfeld was also seen clearing the Pentagon lawn after the 'attack', pretty odd for the secretary of defense to do that. I would also like to know how people think that the hijacker who apparently flew the pentagon plane, who could barely handle a single engine Sesler according to his American flight instructor, was able to make such difficult maneuvers and actually successfully hit the pentagon.
The pentagon is one of the most protected and secure buildings in the US. It has missile defense systems that automatically take out incoming targets, as it is a military zone and an absolute no fly zone for a 30km perimeter. So what happened? Do you really think that a 757 could make it all the way to the pentagon without having any issues? Norad's missile defense systems would have shot it out of the sky before it got anywhere near the pentagon.
Building 7. How can a building that was not hit by any plane, apparently had no explosives in it and only some tiny fires on a couple of floors collapse demolition style, in free fall? People may say that it was damaged when the towers fell. Why didn't other buildings collapse like that then?
The exercises taking place on that day. Military exercises were taking place that day that predicted the exact same situation that was took place on 9/11, a lot of fighter pilots and so forth thought that the actual attacks were an exercise so they did not respond to the threat out of confusion. Strange that, not really relevant but the same thing happened on the day of the London bombings.
The explosions. Many many people have said they heard explosions on the ground and in the basement, witnesses saw their friends killed by exploding walls in the basement. So if we listen to the hundreds of witnesses claiming to have heard explosions, then who planted the explosives, video evidence has also revealed explosive flashes occurring as the towers fall. So do you believe there were no explosives? or that the terrorists planted them and the commission was just too lazy to investigate it or?
So believers and 'OSers' what do you think of these things? Do you choose to ignore them to fit your idea of what happened, deny these realities because of the grim realization that the government may have actually let this atrocity take place? Even if you don't believe it was orchestrated by the government, do you not think that they may have had prior knowledge? which has been proven by the way. If they did have prior knowledge and did just let it happen, that is almost just as bad. Even if they didn't orchestrate it, can you not believe that they may have assisted? Pulled a few strings and turned a few blind eyes so that it could happen?